Means Test for dependant on Contributory pension

Dempo1

Your being pedantic and know full well what I meant. How about contributing something useful 🙄

Gael23

Would the result be halved for a couple?

hawthorne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121437936#Comment_121437936

I think this was adressed already. SW will look at the joint accounts. All money will be added up. Then devided by two. One of the two halfs will be considered as your Granny's money. The first Euro 20000 of that half will be ignored, the rest will be seen as means owned by your Granny.

Check the links provided earlier- all in there.

No- the final result won't be halfed. Your Grandad's money was already taken out before the means test. The means test is done on your Grandmother's money only- your Grandad's payment is a non means tested payment.

Gael23

The disregard seems to be different for so many things. I know it’s 72000 for the over 70 medical card

hawthorne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121438750#Comment_121438750

That figure is correct for a couple in a means test for a medical card. This thing is about a means test for a QA/NC pension. But you may might have just discovered the next problem....

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121438750#Comment_121438750

Medical card is the HSE. Yes I agree though. One Dept disregards 20, the other 72. It’s a bit inconsistent.

StormForce13

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121437845#Comment_121437845

There's nothing useful to contribute.

In a nutshell, the QA's means are above the level that makes her eligible for the dependant's pension and no amount of half-baked suggestions from you or anyone else is going to change that fact.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121438979#Comment_121438979

Half Baked suggestions you say 🙄, what is it about trying to help others that offends people like you, who seem to use this site to be snide & petulant. OP ultimately will have to deal with this, all I and others have offered is guidence & perfectly reasonable suggestions.

You don't decide what I or others post

Gael23

This situation means their income will drop below the €36k threshold for a couple over 70 to pay income tax. Does that adjustment happen automatically or is there something needs to be done?

hawthorne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121439717#Comment_121439717

SW will set the new rate of payment for your grandmother after the means test.

The new tax situation will be reflected in your grandparents next income declaration they have to make when it is due. It looks like there is even a positive side for your grandparents in this affair.

Gael23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121439879#Comment_121439879

They will still be down a little over €100 per week, which is about 15% of their income . A little less during fuel allowance season.

JoChervil

Fuel allowance is means tested as well...

Gael23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121440260#Comment_121440260

Yes but the amounts are a lot higher, €50,000 of savings are disregarded and you can have income of €1000 per week for a couple

StormForce13

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121439035#Comment_121439035

Few intelligent people would regard posting a link to an exclusion that doesn't apply to people receiving the State Contributory pension as a perfectly reasonable suggestion.

Next time, instead of firing off a succession of ill-informed, half-baked suggestions why not first read the relevant Social Welfare Operational Instruction(s) that apply - and then you can pontificate from an informed position to your heart's content.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441579#Comment_121441579

Again you don't dictate what anyone posts here. The link is from Citizens information, Valid & deals with Means testing. If all you've to offer is insults, I suggest you find a Hobby.

Now move on with your petulance. You've clearly joined this forum to be belligerent, 30 posts in & you've still not managed to undersrand the rules.

The Continental Op

Can I ask a question about the means test which I've always wondered about but no one has ever mentioned?

Say you are assessed for means as having €100,000? What happens if over a period of time you spend that money or go out and buy a new car? Can you go back and just ask for another means test? I assume you are allowed to buy a new car if you are on means tested benefit and that you aren't expected to keep the money in the bank forever?

gipi

Yes, you can ask for a review of means, and spending of savings is allowed.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121444991#Comment_121444991

Absolutely. You can apply for non con pension again at any time. It would be a brand new application as they won’t keep your last application open for any more then a month.

Keep receipts. A new car. A new wall. Any home improvements. Went on holiday. Got the ditches cut. Giving generous presents to family and friends unless it’s a wedding present or something like that won’t be allowed. A fill of oil etc of course all fine.

If it all can be accounted for then it shouldn’t be any problem.

To get your head around non con pension or SW means testing I think it helps if you keep in mind what non con pension was intended for.

It was intended for people who for one reason or another found themselves at 66 with no income and not much savings and having made little or no PRSI contributions in their working lives.

Maybe you were in bad health. Maybe you were caring for someone or different people all your life. Maybe you were a stay at home parent with a large family.

But you need money to live every week so there is the non con pension.

Let’s be honest. If you have €100000 in the bank then you don’t need help every week to live. The idea that you should be able to get state money in order to be able to leave your children a large chunk of inheritance in your will is just crazy. But lots of Irish people think like that. Good luck.

Gael23

How far back does the means test look? The letter doesn’t make that clear,

Is there anything to stop them taking my grandmothers name off their bank accounts and then reapplying in the future saying she has nothing in her name, or put a few grand in a new account in her name

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447399#Comment_121447399

When you open a bank account you give the bank your PPSN.

When you apply for a means tested SW payment, SW can see that you have accounts linked to your PPSN. So they ask you to send them 3 month statements of that account.

They will also ask them to send proof that the old bank account is closed. (They can see that they USED to have an account ).

So to be clear, if you advise your grandparents, in an effort to defraud the state, to close one bank account and open another, then all you will be doing is putting them to the bother of getting 3 month statements from the new accounts, and letters from other banks to say that they’ve closed accounts.

Gael…can I say…I’m quite concerned at this stage that you seem to be advising your grandparents and you don’t seem to realise that:

A. Trying to defraud the taxpayer is wrong.

B. Your grandparents can end up getting a court summons and a fine.

It may be that you are concerned that you aren’t going to get your inheritance if your grandmother doesn’t continue to get a payment from SW.

If your grandparents have a large amount of savings then your grandmother simply doesn’t NEED a payment for herself right now.

She can live very comfortably on her savings, can’t she?

Your grandfather is getting his pension commensurate with his lifetimes contributions. That’s perfectly correct.

But I’d really like to hear from you why it is you think that, despite them being very financially comfortable, they also need the taxpayer to give them extra, to the point where you are exploring avenues which would involve them actually breaking the law?

Gael23

The money is from the sale of property, it’s not from their own saving.

I guess I’m just wondering why they choose to go after old people just trying to live week to week rather than the many other fraudulent claims What's even more frustrating is if he never paid PRSI in the 48 years he did and got the non contributory pension they would qualify for an exemption on the proceeds from the house sale. Instead he worked from age 17 until his 65th birthday and now this happens

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121451205#Comment_121451205

Your grandparents are not living “week to week”.

That’s the whole point.

They have very considerable savings on deposit and they don’t need a top up to your grandfathers pension entitlement in order to “live week to week”.

The laws of the land, including fraud, apply to everyone. I have no idea why you think your grandparents can be excluded. That’s just weird.

If a family member advised that your grandparents should sell their home, bank the proceeds, make a will leaving the proceeds to that family member, and continue to claim the adult dependent increase without being discovered, then that family member is to blame for this. Not SW. And they will have to sort it out.

StormForce13

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121451205#Comment_121451205

They're not "going after" anyone, but just applying the conditions for the scheme impartially and without favour.

If they were "going after" your grandparents then they'd be considering prosecuting them for not notifying SW that their circumstances had changed although they had signed an undertaking that they would.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458443#Comment_121458443

They might still do that if there’s persistent efforts to avoid engaging with the department, and even continuing to try to defraud the department.

StormForce13

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458625#Comment_121458625

Perish the thought!

I'm 100% confident that Gael23's grandparents are decent people who wouldn't dream of defrauding the Department. In fact I wouldn't be surprised to hear that they've already replied to Social Welfare, apologising for their oversight and promising to refund the overpayment without further delay.