Ulster Bank/First Active Offset mortgages, here's the answer to previous thread!

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121435307#Comment_121435307

This is a situation where an Irish Bank is being wound down, it is not the case of an ongoing business so be very careful about statements like this as once UB is placed in liquidation as part of the wind down the rules change. Seek proper legal advice and do not rely on opinions offered here.

TheAngryTechie

well maybe they tried to sell it off so they wouldn’t have to pay us but they couldn’t

these t&c’s haven’t existed until today, I’m certain of that. Has anyone on here received a copy of these t&cs since UB took over these mortgages and if so how do they compare to todays t&cs?

phormium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121435590#Comment_121435590

What they have sent today is a Notice of Variation of the T&C so we never got that booklet as such before, it refers back to sections of the original booklet and I have found most sections mentioned in the original but will look better tomorrow for the ones I can't find.

aoraki

If you look at this thread over on askaboutmoney, somebody attached some terms and conditions when this was with First Active https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/how-will-first-active-offset-mortgages-be-impacted-by-the-withdrawal-of-ulster-bank.222580/page-2

Silpac

I'll be very keen to hear what your offered. I've v similar numbers, totally covering mortgage with offset.

I got offered 12.5k

I see someone saying they were offered 90k. I don't see that as remotely credible.

Most calculations here are forgetting the opportunity cost of your savings. If you 100k off setting your mortgage yes it's a big saving but they also assuming you will now be earning 4% income on this now that you otherwise would not have had.

Nobody is going to be compensated for the gross figure.

TheAngryTechie

When you say ‘original booklet’ you mean UB booklet?

i never received this from them and asked for it in Jan 22 but they never sent it to me, only saw it today

i have seen the original FA t&cs

Silpac

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432824#Comment_121432824

Hmm not really. In fact t the saving you made on your offset is technically taxable.

phormium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121435627#Comment_121435627

Is there an UB original? This was a First Active product so assume the original FA booklet is all that is available, nothing changed with it when they merged, well other than them putting charges on the current account over past few years!

Silpac

CB have approved this approach. Done deal. I agree ref the opportunity to improve offers but this is a decent offer all round.

kenif

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121435624#Comment_121435624

They got offered 90K on a 200K mortgage, 100K offset and 15 years left. Great offer but so large because the benefit they are missing out on is greater than most.... But this change could cost them more than 90K with 15 years left and no offset.

Silpac

I can't understand that... don't see how it would ever , ever, ever cost them 90k !

And they can still set off the 100k against the 200k. Just not in a separate deposit account .

preda

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121435495#Comment_121435495

No you can't straight offset now. I would have to pay it into their pay and withdraw option but you can only withdraw under certain terms and conditions so it basically becomes theirs and not yours anymore. You lose the the same access to your money the offset gave you and if you do have to take money out then obviously you are paying the interest again.

Silpac

Fair point, good clarification.

TheAngryTechie

The t&c booklet received today refers to ‘What it currently says’ and ‘What it is changing to’ so UB are implying that there is/was an original UB booklet and this new one is making changes

i never received the original and in Jan 22 they couldn’t send me a copy of this booklet, did anybody on here receive this?

DB2023

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121435659#Comment_121435659

If they have 100k currently offset and get 90k from offer. That's a mortgage balance now of 10k. How's that going to cost them more then 90k over the 15 years ? What am I missing?

TheBaldyBuddha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121435280#Comment_121435280

Original FA one ??

preda

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121435512#Comment_121435512

They said they would be doubling your interest payments as goodwill. They have offered 3500 doubled to 7000. I should be getting 15000 approx. This is needed because rates are not coming down until 2025 according to experts. Anything could happen in the space of 5 years. Europe is a tad volatile at the moment. I was fully protected against that with the offset mortgage.

kenif

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121435745#Comment_121435745

If they use 190K to pay down they have a balance of 10K. If the opt to keep 200K mortgage it's a guess how much that will cost them over 15years with moving interest rates.

Silpac

You also have a loan agreement.

kenif

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121435765#Comment_121435765

Sorry but they will double, but not exceed what they would expect you to pay over the term of the mortgage.

They are calculating that your mortgage will cost you a total of 7k till it's end after offsetting ends. They won't pay above that figure.

phormium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121435754#Comment_121435754

yes FA one

preda

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121435786#Comment_121435786

I currently save about 2500 per year and I have 5 years left. They have calculated that for the entire remaining 5 years I will only save 3500 in total?? And that is the issue.

"To calculate your goodwill payment, we have considered how you used your Offest Arrangement in the past and what you may have saved in the future mortgage interest ................. We acknowledge that future offestting balance could increase and ............. To take account of this, we have doubled the payment to you...."

So they will be giving you more than the exact interest rate calculation or they should be.

kenif

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121435900#Comment_121435900

Mortgages.ie have a capital mortgage calculator. Put your figures in there but with 4% interest.... Remember the interest you save yearly goes down greatly as your loan goes down.

DB2023

If you are lucky with the duration left on your mortgage and used offsetting, you could be a huge winner in this. Others not as lucky. But everyone with one of these mortgages has done well over the years. The rates were great until very recently. And if you had the means to use the offset it was a dream product for the customer. I despair of the people now complaining about their offer of 5k who are saying they had savings separate to the mortgage as they didn't realise how it worked... Still to see my offer but I'll be fighting it until they compensate for the huge loss of the remortgage offer we all had (ie. new mortgage on the same terms. )

paul321123

I have been fully offsetting for over 10years now which means I have not paid any interest for that period,, my mortage is what I consider low and they have offered me 45% of what is left on my mortgage, not sure of the tax implications of this but all in all I have done OK out of this and will be paying down my mortgage when this comes through, still don't know how they calculated this figure, but seems the longer you were offsetting the more you got due to the savings you were making.

kenif

How long have you left on your term Paul. That's more how the calculate the 45%.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121435584#Comment_121435584

Yet they still have a legal obligation to their customers they say they can change it for no good reason - they cant if they could they would of done it years ago and saved a fortune and lets be clear Ulster bank is under the umbrella of a bigger banking structure RBS in the UK and they are not winding down any time soon.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121435632#Comment_121435632

No its not as its only a saving on the interest that could of been paid.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121435679#Comment_121435679

Remember they are doubling the amount that they are set to lose out on so my reading is that they would of saved 45k over 15 years on a 200k mortgage at 4% is actually fairly accurate when putting the figures into a mortgage curve payment calculator.

fliball123

Here is the original from First Active, I dont remember Ulster ever changing this. I could be wrong but just so everyone has a copy.

Offset_Banking_Terms_and_Conditions.pdf