Husband's Family are getting really toxic

ness177

Hi,

I was just wondering has anyone on here ever experienced anything like this before in regards to their in-laws?

My Husband and I have been together for over 10 years and we have 3 small children. We are happy and I'd say our relationship is pretty much average no complaints really at all bar the usual tit for tat here and there but other than that we get on really well and are very communicative with each other about everything, however there is one issue that has in the past and continues to kind of linger on there in the background and that is his family tbh! I know that probably sounds bad, but the reason I am saying this is because, I really and truly believe my husbands family are very very toxic people, I actually have never encountered anything like this in my life. When myself and my husband first got together, they seemed normal and nice and then over time i began to see a side to them that blew me away and completely changed my whole perspective of each of them individually. Firstly, I think they actually hate each other, never mind the outer public, his siblings have said and done things to his parents in the last ten years that made me think how could these people go so low, on the other hand iv witnessed my mother in law do and say some pretty low things herself that always made me second guess why her kids despise her, most of the time his siblings dont even really get on with each other. But my husband and I have always tried to keep the peace and just get on with them all but keep them at a distance because my husband is fully aware what his family are actually like as well, which he has often said on numerous occasion's himself, mainly because we were the peaceful ones any time they fell out with eachother my husband was the first person to get a phone call when they wanted to give out. It never really bothered me because as long as we weren't involved then i didnt really care what they said or done with eachother.

However, the only person we have ever really falling out with in his family is My husbands sister, from day one myself and her have never really seen eye to eye with eachother, because the best way i can describe her in my opinion is very much a troublemaker, she is very dominant and stubborn and very much controlling, basically every single thing has to be her way or no way! I dont say this lightly because i have witnessed her behaviour throughout the years and most of it is disgusting, especially towards her parents. she basically falls out with one member of the family just as she is making up with another, its like a constant rotation with her. I know because me and my Husband have been on the receiving end of her bitterness many times. My husband has often said she is just a very bitter person that has this outlook that if shes not happy why should others be, because every relationship she had failed on her miserably, usually they left her for either being too controlling or they couldn't hack living with her, i only know this because my husband shared it with me, but its not really hard to see for myself tbh with the way she carry's on! she was always very negative about everything to the point where she would actually put you in bad mood after being in her presence for the whole of 5 minutes!

anyways like i said we have had many encounters with her over the years mostly over petty stuff, like not respecting our boundaries, we are a very private couple and she would constantly try to interfere in our relationship and dictate things. At one point she was ringing my husband every second day about her problems and giving out about other members of the family that she had falling out with at the time, just stupid stuff that my husband didnt want to hear about and then if it was said to her by him she would fall out with him and blame me! that i was the reason he got thick with her or it was my fault, basically she always found a way to turn things back on me for what reason i dont know because to this day i still dont know what i have done to her to behave like that. I think at this point I could write a book about the things she alone has said and done to us over the years never mind what they have done to eachother as a family and it would probably be a best seller!!

She fell out with us again a couple of months ago, this time it was over a stunt she pulled with us that was a big deal breaker for both of our relationships with her, and we really just gave up on her at this point because there are just certain things you cant forget about that easily and i have never seen my husband as disgusted with her through out our whole relationship as he is now himself! Funnily enough I got the blame for us all falling out again which is no shock, but this time she is taking things to an extreme and going really below the belt with us, I'm not going to get into detail of the stuff she has said and done over the past few months to us but she has even dragged our kids into it and tbh i just actually think she is either completely crazy or else a very sick individual. The thing is now, however, she has caused a load of trouble between the rest of his family and is blaming me for stuff i never said or done and she has now got my husbands other siblings to turn against him, all the while blaming me for them not speaking to him, its mad because none of them got on with eachother at the best of times never mind anyone else. So i cant understand what she has said or done for them to react the way they have with us. Even though she has an awful relationship with her own parents she has managed to cause tension between his parents and us too because she made up lies that i was texting her and abusing her along with threatening her so i had to go to the extreme to prove she was lying and that i blocked her ages ago! Whenever i meet any of my husband sibling regardless whether i have the kids with me or not the just bluntly snub us even the kids which is horrible because my oldest is big enough to see it herself and she has often said what is their problem and why are they so bitter with us which i genuinely have no idea myself. On the other hand the same people that walk by us like as if myself and the kids are a piece of dirt have demanded my husband drop our kids over to them when it suits. I left my husband to make his own mind up about that but, he said no hes not doing that because if they have no respect for us then they don't deserve to be around our kids for what they are doing.

We just ignored things and are moving on and just seeing what happens over time but, my husband has started receiving letters from his sister now in the post, claiming that i stole him off her and that i am controlling him, this is happening once a week maybe twice now, my husband said he wants to tell the guards he is being harassed by her but i dont think he should because it will just get worse with her, but he says he's getting sick of this its not normal which i agree it really isn't tbh!!

I really dont know what to do about it all. but i really do think at this stage they are completely toxic and its getting out of hand. has anyone ever encountered anything like this because I've never heard or seen the likes of it before in my life? sorry for long post and i probably shouldn't have went into detail but i really don't care anymore because they are stressing us out now.

Thanks in advance!

Deeec

That's a very long post OP which actually gives us no information on the situation. Can you give examples of some of the events? It's hard to offer you advice when you have only given us a vague idea of what's going on.

ness177

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121419631#Comment_121419631

Sorry I know the post is really long, I just wanted to get It out of my system to someone as i haven't spoken to anyone about it other than my husband and we wanted other opinions. Basically she borrowed a couple of thousand off him to get her out of situation a while back and offered to pay him back monthly, she paid him the first month and the told him to basically F off the second month, that because she was his siter he should have gave it as a gift and that it was my fault he was looking for it off her. and It kicked off from there really!

Furze99

When you marry someone, you also marry into their family. No way of avoiding it, just have to manage it.

There's an old saying 'neither a borrower, nor a lender be'. It's a bit harsh but at the root of it, is that issues surrounding money is often the cause of fractures in relationships. Your husband likely asked your advice before loaning? So you should have been aware of the potential risks given previous experience. If he didn't, well it's really up to him to sort out with his sister and you stay out of it as regards her. Of course, talk to him and agree what's best.

Regardless, your husband should state the facts of the matter clearly to all other siblings and parents, so all are getting his account. You either get the money back or you don't, but either way going forward, limit contact with this person apart from essential family events.

ness177

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121419746#Comment_121419746

I know given previous experiences with her it was probably a silly move but, we both agreed to do it because we felt bad because there were small kids involved and it was for Christmas! However if we had known it would go down this road it wouldn't have happened tbh. I definitely am staying out of it but its very hard when she is blaming me to his other family members that i am the reason he wanted the money back and things i have been hearing she has said about me are really uncalled for and below the belt, when i done nothing wrong to her!! one example is that she told one of his siblings that he offered it as a good will gesture that he came to her instead of her coming to him, and that i was the one who sent him to her demanding money when that wasn't the case at all. Its not even about the money anymore we just accepted it for how it was, its the unnecessary troublemaking and turning people on us for no reason. My husband has defended us to them but its like she has manipulated them into believing her side to take pity because she has no partner etc. its crazy the way they have turned on us tbh!!!

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121419779#Comment_121419779

Well you might just have to accept the loss and move on. My advice again fwiw ".... your husband should state the facts of the matter clearly to all other siblings and parents, so all are getting his account. You either get the money back or you don't, but either way going forward, limit contact with this person apart from essential family events". A letter in a Christmas card to all concerned would be a way to go. 'Happy Christmas xyz etc., and while I'm sending this card I thought clarify the situation regarding our sister abc etc etc'

bucketybuck

If she is a dingbat, and the rest of them are also toxic, then what does it matter what she says to them or what they believe?

I'm reminded of that scene from a Bronx tale where the kid is complaining about a loser who owes him $20, and Sonny points out that it only cost him $20 to get that loser to stay away from him forever.

If you or your husband are defending yourselves then really you are just playing their game, why are you even entertaining their gossip? Tell them to mind their own business.

There is no law that says you have to interact with family, so if they are all toxic then just stay away from all of them. If you are getting dragged back into it then that will be on you quite frankly.

ness177

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121419802#Comment_121419802

Thanks thats actually a good idea with the Christmas card, its not something either of us thought about doing. He was going to set up a whatsapp group to them but then he said what was the point, let them believe what they want hes quite stubborn like that, but il tell him about what you said about the card its probably the mannerly way to do it. Yes i think i will defo be limiting contact after this possibly with them all tbh! thank you again for the advice it means alot.

ness177

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121419812#Comment_121419812

Yes I know what you mean, it is getting really petty at this stage. im defo going to be limiting contact from here on out possibly with them all even when eventually this blows over but whether my husband chooses to or not is up to him il let him make his own mind up. thank you for advice it means alot.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121419820#Comment_121419820

Its a horrible idea.

What, you think they are going to read a letter and have some sort of revelation? That all will immediately come to their senses and see the error of their ways?

No, the letter will be shown to the sister and the narrative will be how you are trying to manipulate your husband, that he isn't even allowed to talk to his family anymore, that you are writing letters and sending them to all and sundry airing the dirty laundry in public. Every word in the letter will be pored over and analysed for the worst possible interpretation, days will be spent formulating responses to every single thing said. It would be the Christmas special episode of their personal soap opera.

When you are explaining you are losing, you just need to stop playing their game entirely.

Dial Hard

If she’s as troublesome as you say then the rest of the family likely already know that her version of events is bullshıt.

You are far, far too invested in this. Let your husband deal with it and move on.

iniscealtra

Agree with @Dial Hard hard. Ignore and in future don’t lend family money. If she’s a drama Queen people will know what she is like. Get on with your own life. If asked to lend money advise them to get a credit Union account if they don’t have one. The credit Union give small loans.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121419820#Comment_121419820

Well a WhatsApp group on this matter would not be great and only encourage further dispute.

You husband is a bit of a peace maker going by your OP. Let him play that role with an Xmas card and explanatory identical letter. Yes, they may know the story already in various ways but that puts his and your POV across simply and unequivocally. After that let it sit & stew, he/you will have made your views clear.

Don't cut your in laws out of your life completely and quite likely your husband will want to maintain a degree of contact - blood is thicker etc. Just keep it to essential family events insofar as possible. It's all about managing it, not the nuclear option. It'll help if they don't live too close by.

cbreeze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121419661#Comment_121419661

They sound like a bag of cats! Its a pity that the OP's husband is down by a couple of thousand euro and that his generosity in her time of need has been weaponised. Remember, its her problem and does not needs to spread like a new form of familial Covid. I suggest that the phone calls are blocked. She won't know that. File away the letters and send a nice Christmas card to all the family and don't mention the past. Smile and move on.

Escapees

My two cents... Consider distancing yourselves from all of your husband's family entirely. I would not assume your husband's parents are the innocent victims in all of this - the apples generally don't fall far from the tree unfortunately. I have come across couples who have had to cut off contact or limit the time their children spend with the grandparents because they would be poor role models and potentially damaging (unintentionally) to their children's development if left alone.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121419867#Comment_121419867

^^^^

This. If she is this big of a troublemaker, the rest of the family already know about it.

Your husband should do one thing, and one thing only - that is let the family know it was a loan, there was a repayment plan agreed between he and her that she reneged on, and this is nothing to do with you.

If they choose to believe her version of events over him, well, there is not much you can do. If you can afford the loss, write it off, and put it down to experience. It will be money well spent and worth it to never have to deal with her again, except on a minimal level.

But, you need to stay out of it, and let your husband deal with his sister and family. Look up the "grey rock" method.

(eta) do not put anything in a letter! She'd probably love that, take it to a solicitor and try to claim defamation or something.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121420127#Comment_121420127

So how do you propose that the OPs husband does what you suggest? i.e. "our husband should do one thing, and one thing only - that is let the family know it was a loan, there was a repayment plan agreed between he and her that she reneged on, and this is nothing to do with you."

Even if he gathers them all into one room, calls for silence and makes his spake, they'll each hear what they want and remember it differently. If he does this person by person on the phone or in person, they'll all have different versions.

If you want to set matters straight you write. A short, simple letter outlining what you mean is all that's needed. You print off copies and change the name addressed on each. Everyone gets the same. This is a situation where there needs to be clarity and it should be put in writing with careful wording.

Many other situations are best dealt with casually but it seems here, there are Chinese Whispers at play.

That's how I would address it anyway.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121420614#Comment_121420614

With his mouth? The man is allowed to speak up for himself.

Sending individual letters or putting a letter into every individual family christmas card will only make him come across as petty and vindictive and she his victim. I'd almost guarantee it would backfire - the OP would be blamed, and the sister would get loads of sympathy. I can hear it already, "Imagine doing that to your sister..."

Absolutey terrible idea, in my opinion. When you're dealing with toxic and manipulative people, you'd don't hand them extra ammunition to fire at you.

But - the OP is free to choose which advice they wish to follow.

YellowLead

I don’t mean to be dismissive of your husband - but it all seems a little too blaming the sister and the family - and poor golden boy.

It still amazes me how people expect all families to be lovely and nice - they are not. And when they are not - no amount of wishing and hoping and pining helps. Acceptance and dealing with reality is the only way.

Your husband needs to grow a pair. You need to live your lives being far less involved with troublesome family members - at the end of the day it takes a bigger person to walk away sometimes

NSAman

Simply put ignore them. Live your own lives for yourselves and you children.

my dads family were similar. One sister sounds very similar to the one mentioned. My mother and father ignored then focussed on our family. When my dad passed away his sister tried to start something at his wake, which I immediately tore into her about saying well “ I’m his son, and if my dad was THAT bad I’m worse!”. She left, will she be missed by any of us? NO!

Purple Mountain

I think its time to cut them all off completely.

Why bother defending yourselves?

It'll be twisted and manipulated anyway by the sound of things.

We can't control what other people think of us do why waste your energy?

You and your husband know the truth, that's all that matters.

I'm sure you have your own family and friends.

They all sound very dramatic and toxic so I dont think a relationship with any of them is salvageable.

Silence is dignifing so just stone wall them with it.

You can't rationalise with people who love drama.

And why would you allow your kids go into their houses where they don't want their parents?!

Theyre your kids and if those people don't respect you, they shouldn't get to have access to your kids.

Times up on your relationship with them all I'm afraid.

I just hope you don't live too near them.

Hannibal_Smith

She's looking for attention. When your husband told her off and she threw a strop, he was supposed to beg for her forgiveness. When he didn't she upped her game to abusing you both. When that didn't work, she upped it again by bringing the family into it. When that still didn't work, she started with the letter writing.

Ignoring her seems to be annoying her more than anything. If I was you, I'd keep ignoring her. The rest of the family have been on the brunt of her behaviour before and if they can't figure out the reality thats on them. I'd keep the letters and all the texts you've received though and maybe a diary of what's going on, just in case she ups her game another notch, which she very well might do, and you want to do something about it in the future.

You can't reason with stupidity, I reckon anything you say will just play into her game. Don't get sucked in. Keep your distance, you've done nothing wrong, so don't let her words upset you she's just looking for your reaction and your attention.

backwards_man

Its not your job to repair the relatiinship with his family. If your husband wants to continue having them in his life let him sort it out. Families will forgive or overlook alot from their own but the minute an "outsider" chimes in, they are slammed. You cant win and they will not allow you to be the mediator. The sister in particular does not want to have a cordial relationship with you. Stop forcing it. Let it go.

Squatman

this thread is crammed full of terrible advice. best advice, which free, and rarely applied, has been to ignore it and move one. Any "letter" or communications regarding a sensitive and generally accepted confidential agreement to lend money, would be terribly naive, and a low blow on your partners behalf. The sister would feel rightfully hard done by, and would feed into the narrative that she has been creating all along. do not engage any further. keep the original copies of the letters that are coming in, and block family members on the phone....

if the letters escalate to the point where they are threatening, then engage with te gardai. do not share with family members

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121422834#Comment_121422834

Agree, some poor advice on this thread. It's worth noting again that when you marry someone, you also marry into their family. These are not only the OPs husband's family but also hers. She may well have nieces and nephews etc. So whilst it seems best to limit contact, it's also important not to shut them completely out. Say what you mean and mean what you say is useful advice here. Put the record straight and carry on.

Personally I would endorse letting your husband send the circular letter as recommended by Furze. All the the exact same statement of fact. You can’t alter what people think, but maybe their information would stand a better chance of being aligned.

Dear xxx

I am sending this same letter to each member of family to clarify that the €x I gave to xxx on x date was explicitly a loan to tide over x period, and understood by her at the time.

It was never at any time a gift, and she agreed to pay it back in full, and did indeed make an initial repayment on x date. However she declined to make any further repayments.

I hope this makes the situation very clear and that there is no further misunderstanding by anybody.

Hoping you enjoy a very peaceful Christmas.

Signed xxxxx

Big Bag of Chips

I wouldn't drag other family members into it. Other than gossiping none of them actually cares! The rest of the family are not going to want to get involved. They're probably listening to the sister, they're probably bitching about you, him, the situation, her etc but by sending a letter you are directly and deliberately looking for something from them. What? A reaction? A response? Support?

A letter in a Christmas card bitching about their sister will not have the effect you think it will. Christmas is a time for goodwill! Send a Christmas card to wish them a happy Christmas if you feel you should. But you shouldn't add a letter like that into a card that is sending good wishes. It will only cause trouble. And it drags you (both) down to their level. From what you say, this family are not that close anyway. They argue and fall out with each other all the time anyway. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

You don't have to have any relationship with anyone in his family. I'm married over 20 years. I don't even have my in-laws phone numbers! I don't have any issue with any of them but we're not friends! I go to family occasions and have a laugh and a chat with them all. Outside of that I don't see or contact them until the next family gathering.

I would totally step back from them all. Don't listen to their dramas. Don't get involved. Don't intervene. Don't retaliate. Don't react. The more you do or say the more oxygen you give them to keep their arguments and attitude burning.

Let your husband deal with them how he wishes. You step away. If they're that nasty and unpleasant then your children aren't missing out by not having close relationships with any of them.

Squatman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121423158#Comment_121423158

childish and naive advice. written statements of a confidential agreement. no integrity, and exemplifies the bad press that the OP has been victim of

bucketybuck

Anybody who thinks that a letter is a good idea simply does not understand human nature.

It would be an absolutely terrible idea, and I very much hope the OP realises that.

howsshenow

Sounds like she/ they are Narcissists. Toxic is a word that goes hand in hand with Narcissm. Some great videos on YouTube on the subject.

Let us know what you think..

Idle Passerby

A letter might be cathartic in the short term but it would achieve nothing. They'd roll their eyes, have a little bitch and forget it. Any engagement at all from your end will lead to more engagement from their end.

You don't need to have anything to do with these people. Just don't engage. When they call giving out about each other just say you don't want to be involved. There's no potential for drama if your a stone wall.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121423158#Comment_121423158

You could well be breaching data protection law with a letter like this.

Water John

A wacky but cathartic thing for your selves might be, to write the letter and never send it. One time someone sent me a letter of complaint to me, most of it actually convoluted thoughts going on in his own head. I was furious, sat down and wrote my angry response, but never posted it. The issue was let lie as I had actually refused to take the bait.

Bogroll2003

The dynamics in these types of families are so ingrained that you are wasting your time trying.

Take it from me, nothing is resolved, ever.

Casual abuse and nastiness is normalised. Family members form little (usually temporary) alliances and cliques that suit in the moment and serve to keep people down and the cycle going. And anyone who steps out from under the weight of the abuse or speaks out , is isolated.

You might, with all will and diplomacy , get to a point where this latest drama is seemingly resolved, but then another thing happens. Time after time. Dragging you back to the feeling of wtf is this!

This is the important bit: normal rules and expectations don’t apply is these families, because they are not normal, in the sense of the members being interdependent and mutually supportive. They are toxic. You are not dealing with people who want to resolve things. They want to win and feel like they got the better of you.

I think your interactions will become so exhausting that you’ll eventually need to pull back for your and your family’s own sanity, or you end up like them, playing along to get along. Aka enabling the dysfunctional dynamics. Then you’re passing the behaviour down to the next generation, I.e your kids, and that is the worst outcome of all.

argentum

If you can afford to do without the money then I'd forget it, move on ,and tell the husband to throw the letters in the bin once he gets them so he's not upset or sucked into her games .

If you need the money I'd tell the whole family that she borrowed money and refuses to pay it back and ask has she done the same to anyone else

Other than that I wouldn't be arsed dealing with his family, it's his family you don't need to like them

hello2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121436863#Comment_121436863

well explained! very hard to live this way as normal person always want to fix problems but overtime you realize there are many issues better left unresolved..

notAMember

I think if you stir this up with a poison pen letter at Christmas, you'd be (rightly) accused of being fairly toxic yourself!

To diffuse, you need to let things settle, and let your husband deal with the money and his sister. It is nothing to do with you. He lent it to her, it is his responsibility to get it back, or absorb it as a loss. It sounds like she is in financial trouble also, so is under stress as it is. You won't get a good reaction poking your nose in

And it's a lesson to you, if you could afford to lend it, you could afford to lose it, this is how the responsibility of lending works, and why banks charge interest for this.