Farronshoneen Roundabout

Jerry Atrick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123774176#Comment_123774176

Some balderdash here...good God!

I'm all for a change in mindset however the government and local councils need to win hearts and minds in order for it to succeed. The blueprint is not credible as it stands. Piecemeal projects that don't interconnect around road users are my biggest gripe. Motorists will continue to use the roads until a comprehensive and efficient service is available; which is currently not the case. Anyone arguing on the contrary and holding up 'feeling safe' is skirting around the issue. Safety is obviously of paramount importance for everyone.

Cabaal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123774758#Comment_123774758You've clearly missed the bit where I've stated time and time again that a network cannot be built overnight, it takes time and whats happening now is required to happen so that in time a full network can be connected.

Dublin is a good example, lots of proper cycle lanes built since 2019 and they are now connecting together 5/6 years later to form a connected network covering numerous km's.
Here's some info on it that I'm sure you are totally not aware of - IrishCycle.com

If safety was important to everyone we wouldn't have people like yourself argueing against such changes in this thread. Some people wanting priority and space for cars above all else is the main reason this thread exists.

Jerry Atrick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123774795#Comment_123774795

Can you provide the Waterford template while you're at it please? Last time I checked Farronshoneen roundabout (thread name) wasn't in Dublin.

Cabaal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123775891#Comment_123775891

My reference to Dublin was to show that building a network takes time, you know this but instead you've chosen to try make a silly smart remark.

You appear to have confused me with Google and Waterford Council, if you;re that interested I suggest doing some extremely basic research.

You've made repeated claims that these are isolated jobs with no joined up thinking, but its clearly evident you've done zero research in respect of this and you've provided nothing to support this claim you've made. It's just a lazy claim being thrown out based on seeing this one job.

Even 5min on google will throw up plenty of info, pdfs etc with plans for each year….something you've clearly not tried and its clear you have no real interest in learning this information. You're just throwing out lazy anti-cyclist crap time and time again.

Valhalla90

Gonna keep this short the main issue with this roundabout is they removed the second lane on the approach from Farran park side. All the traffic is crammed into the one lane now. Reinstate the second lane and the roundabout will operate fine again. No need to fix something that wasn’t broken. They could have improved pedestrian and cyclists safety without the removal of the lane!

Jerry Atrick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123777773#Comment_123777773

When in doubt...resort to personal attacks!

I have a TFI card and often use the bikes and buses where possible. Anyway had enough of your rubbish. Open your eyes and have a look around the city and tell me things couldn't be better. I'll wait and I'll also wait for the network blueprint.

Jerry Atrick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123778060#Comment_123778060

Exactly and I don't think the one way system around Wilkins St etc is going to do anything to dissipate the traffic flow. This is what I mean on joined up thinking but not everyone agrees which is fair enough.

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123778106#Comment_123778106

The traffic in and around Wilkin's Street seems to be flowing much better than normal, as does the one way on Passage Road. Its early days, but its certainly not the disaster proclaimed from this week's front page Munster Express.

It will be interesting to see what happens on a few very bad wet mornings. It is a trial scheme after all.

As for Farranshoneen/Williamstown, I'm all for bikes, bike lanes, and traffic separation and calming but on a four leg roundabout, to reduce one leg to single lane entry seems illogical. The traffic build up on the John's Hill entry from early afternoon helps no one, other than to slow down traffic speeds. Is this the object? I may have missed something, but can anyone tell me in a single sentence, exactly why the one lane entry was created? Is there a future iteration of the design that is yet to be implemented? I find John's Hill to be very narrow and dangerous along its length from The old County and City Infirmary to the Williamstown Roundabout. It contains dangerous pinch points for all traffic. Some footpaths are very very narrow with little possibility of widening them. The "neck" at the bottom of the hill outside St Otteran's Hospital is particularly dangerous. Cycling is extremely hazardous along this whole section as some traffic moves at what can only be called ridiculous speed.

Anyone really interested should try walking the length from Passage Road to Williamstown at a busy time.

Jerry Atrick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123778536#Comment_123778536

I agree, especially dangerous going down hill towards town at Otterans. Not suitable for any road users or pedestrians.

Valhalla90

This is by far the worst section of this busy road. So narrow and to have a junction there also is madness.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123778936#Comment_123778936

Amazingly when the widen the part in the image they left the service access (whatever you call it) where all the wires are underground which makes the footpath jut out.

Had they moved that a foot in it would have allowed them to remove that pinch point.

johnnykilo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123778936#Comment_123778936

Not to mention that massive pot down that's halfway down the hill on the way into town. I always have my heart in my hands walking up that way that a car doesn't hit that pothole going to fast and loose control.

Not to mention clowns cycling down the footpath full pelt. That pinchpoint that you mention 914 means that if you're walking up the hill you're hidden until the footpath juts out again. Had to jump out of the way one time as some **** eejit on a bike was going full pelt down that hill and couldn't see me walking up, if I'd have caught the **** he wouldn't be able to cycle again.

Cabaal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123778095#Comment_123778095

So rather then use google you accuse me of personal attacks.

If you think I attacked you then report the post and leave a mod review.
In the meantime I'm not Google and its evident you have done zero research prior to your baseless claims.

Hodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123774162#Comment_123774162

The original point made by "Jerry Atrick," which Cabaal dismisses, is entirely valid from the perspective of a current commuter. Jerry states that buses are not a viable alternative because they are stuck in the same bad traffic as cars. This is the classic "chicken and egg" problem of public transport.

• Cabaal's Argument: You're wrong, cars cause the traffic that stops the buses.
• The Reality: A commuter making a decision today on how to get to work sees a bus stuck in traffic and a car stuck in traffic. The car offers point-to-point convenience, climate control, personal space, and the ability to run errands on the way. The bus offers none of these advantages and is still subject to the same delays. Cabaal is arguing from an idealized, future-state where bus priority exists, whereas Jerry is correctly describing the current reality that prevents people from switching. You cannot attract people to a system that is currently broken by simply blaming them for not using it.

The statement "And what creates the traffic? The motorists. They are the issue" is a tautology that is both unhelpful and divisive. It’s like saying "what creates crowded restaurants? The diners." It ignores the fundamental question: Why are there so many motorists in the first place?

Traffic is not the disease; it is a symptom of decades of urban and regional planning decisions. People are in cars because:

• Urban Sprawl: Towns and cities have been designed around the car. Housing is often located far from workplaces, schools, and shopping centers, making driving a necessity, not a choice.
• Lack of Viable Alternatives: As Jerry points out, the current public transport system is often inadequate. It may be infrequent, unreliable, slow, expensive, or not serve the required routes.
• Economic Necessity: Many people need a vehicle for their livelihood. This includes tradespeople (plumbers, electricians), delivery drivers, sales representatives, and healthcare workers who make home visits. These are not optional joyrides.
• Life's Practicalities: A car is a tool. It's used for the weekly grocery shop, taking children to sports practice, visiting elderly relatives, or transporting people with mobility issues. A bus journey involving three bags of shopping and two toddlers is a logistical nightmare that is simply not comparable to a car trip.

The solution to "take lanes from cars" for bus lanes and bus gates is not a silver bullet. If implemented poorly, it can exacerbate the very problems it claims to solve.

• Induced Congestion: Reducing road capacity without a corresponding reduction in vehicle numbers simply creates worse gridlock. This leads to more pollution from idling engines, longer journey times for everyone (including emergency services and commercial vehicles), and immense public frustration.
• Economic Harm: Businesses that rely on deliveries or customer access via car can be crippled by such measures. City centers can become inaccessible, driving commerce out to suburban retail parks that are built around the car, thus worsening the original problem.

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123788909#Comment_123788909

Interesting analysis thank you. Like us all, long on the problem, but short on answers. Forgive me if i say it reads like Luddism, and sticking to the current model? I'm not trying to be smart, but if you live in or know Waterford city, what would you do? Is the present situation sustainable? How many more cars are we likely to see on our streets? We cannot continue as we are going?

One instance: In your "Life's Practicalities" paragraph you mention difficulties with shopping plus 2 kids and 3 bags of shopping on a bus ride. Admittedly very difficult. Our family shops for groceries in Dunne's in City Square. They deliver free in the city. (On line shopping not yet available because of space constraints, will arrive with Ferrybank Centre).. On line shopping is available from Tesco and Supervalu and works very well I believe.

Bus service around town has improved immensely but is being damaged by traffic jam delays. Friends who live in Tramore say the bus service to city centre is excellent and they use it to come into town to socialise.

Hodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123789100#Comment_123789100

Here are my counter-arguments and answers to your question, "what would you do?"

• The Quays: I would immediately restore the four-lane traffic system on the quays. The reduction to two lanes has created a permanent bottleneck, slowing down the entire city's transport network. It was a solution in search of a problem.
• Farronshoneen Roundabout: The "upgrade" to this roundabout has been a disaster. The previous two-lane system was far more efficient. Ever since the change, traffic frequently backs up all the way down John's Hill, an area that never had such significant problems before. These are not improvements; they are hindrances.
• Democratic Mandate: Crucially, none of these changes were made with a clear democratic mandate. No councillor was elected on a platform of reducing road capacity at Farronshoneen or the Quays. These decisions were driven by unelected officials, not the will of the people who use these roads every day. My solution is to return planning power to elected councillors who are accountable to voters.

You use the example of a family getting groceries delivered from Dunne's in the city. That's a valid point for the small number of people living in the immediate city centre, like a couple renting on Lombard Street.

However, this completely ignores the reality for thousands of families in residential estates:

• Is a family from John's Park or Earl's Court expected to take a bus to do a large weekly shop at Tesco or Aldi in Ardkeen and then haul multiple heavy bags and children back home? It is neither realistic nor practical.
• The same applies to a resident of Ashley Court trying to shop at Tesco in Lisduggan or the Aldi on the Cork Road.
• For the vast majority of families, the car is the only viable tool for a major grocery run.

The bus service, however improved, cannot serve everyone's essential needs.

• Take a self-employed tradesman—let's call him Jimmy—living in Hillview. If he gets a contract to do a job on the other side of town, or work out in the county, how is he supposed to get there? It is completely unrealistic to expect Jimmy to carry his tools, materials, and equipment on a bus. His van or car is essential for his livelihood.

The current strategy seems to be punishing car owners in the hope they will switch to a public transport system that simply cannot meet the practical demands of weekly shopping, family life, or essential work-related travel for a huge portion of the population. We need to focus on solutions that improve traffic flow for everyone, not create bottlenecks based on an idealized and unrealistic vision of city life.

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123789888#Comment_123789888

I would guess that Cabaal would say that you should cycle to the supermarket in your cargo bike with your kids. Likewise he'd probably say the tradesman should cycle with a cargobike to the job.

Also you are 100% using AI :D

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123792357#Comment_123792357

That perhaps explains it. The failure to grasp the simple point about free delivery from Dunne's in City Square to any place in the city or online ordering and delivery from other supermarkets?

Also, I don't think Cabaal or anyone else ever suggested that tradesmen or health care professionals who need a car for work and to access clients , should not have one.

I wonder what people think of the proposed solutions offered by Hodger

Jerry Atrick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123784475#Comment_123784475

Lowest common denominator stuff. Report to a moderator, come on now! Like a virtual school yard telling tales!