Farronshoneen Roundabout

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123123495#Comment_123123495

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123123418#Comment_123123418

Not desperation. The Manor 100% works better now than it did prior to the changes.

Do we remember the days of constant gridlock on the manor, tail backs out as far as the land registry.

The traffic constantly flows now in the area.

I'd actually be in favour of similar for Catherine St, Waterside, John St and Parnell St.

Speak Now

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123121889#Comment_123121889

Williamstown queue certainly hasn't disappeared but the inside lane for left only definitely helps.

Ballygunner school to airport road has become a rat run also, a road not fit for the traffic or speed on it. The council know it and seem happy with how dangerous it is.

Valhalla90

A road is needed from Ballygunner junction to the Outer ring road at the airport roundabout. This would take a lot away from the Farronshoneen junction.

Cabaal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123123831#Comment_123123831

Part of this is the changes to the route changed people's habits, so previously people might have taken Manor street.

Now they rat run through other streets or take the outer ring road.

Building more lanes and roads won't fix waterfords traffic problems in the long term, its only creating induced demand when you do this. Instead there needs to be major pushes for priority of public transport and active traffic, unless you are doing business in the city centre you have no place be there….that includes the quays.

People need to change habits if they live in the city and stop using cars for every single thing including dropping 200m down to the local shop.

BBM77

Ths starting point for improving traffic has to be getting cars out of the city.

Squidvicious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123123495#Comment_123123495

As regards Lombard St., one of the reasons why that's such a bottleneck is because traffic can't actually get onto the Quay. I accept that's inevitable to some degree but the problem is made worse because the Quay has now got only one lane and this reduces the volume of traffic it can handle. There's a similar problem with traffic from the other side of the bridge not being able to get onto the Quay at peak times. Reducing the Quay to one lane has failed. I can't see how it helps anything to have the Quay as a constant traffic jam for hours at a time.

Indeed, it would be a better solution even if we had two lanes either way on the Quay and one was used as a bus lane. OK, that wouldn't improve things for cars but at least buses would be able to get through, might encourage more use of buses. That wouldn't be my preferred option but even that would be better than the current situation.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123134579#Comment_123134579

…again, its gonna be virtually impossible to force behavioral changes without implementing actual viable alternatives for commuters, the choice of the use of private vehicles is not just a more convenient one, but an actual essential one. most households simply cannot function without the private car, and in many cases more than one, due to the journeys that are required throughout the day, from work related to school runs etc etc, people are not gonna move from the private car to alternatives such as buses, its just not gonna happen, you can implement all the sticks you want, but…..

azimuth17

The bus lane idea is a good one but realistically the Quays are used by masses of people who want to get to a destination thats not in the centre, especially people who live in Ferrybank or Co Kilkenny/Wexford. WHy are they doing that? What can be done to change things? Returning the quays to four or three lanes will IMHO work maybe for a while and then there will be bottlenecks elsewhere as pressure points move and four lanes are reduced to two. Four lane traffic in any urban area is destructive of quality of life. You can't multiply the car population by three (now 2.2m) in 30 years and expect to be able to cope in an old plac elike Waterford. All that is happening is that some streets like John Street, Parnel Street, Bridge Street etc are being made almost uninhabitable. . The growth in private car numbers is the kernel of the problem, coupled with suburban housing and public transport that is unable to fulfil its function. .

Cabaal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123136878#Comment_123136878

Returning the quays to 4 lanes only creates induced demand, its a failed idea.

It'll make the cityt a poor place. Yes in the very short term you'll seen an improvement but very quickly more people will take the route and congestion will get worse. Meanwhile people will have been put off cycling or using public transport because of the mess on the quays. Nothing will improve during this time and people will not change habits.

If you want change then we need bus lanes the full length of the quays and across the bridge, give priority to public transport and active travel. We need less cars coming through the city not more and motorists must feel pain with this change there is no other way.

There's no easy way around this, for changing habits and for improving things the city must limit car access further.

I remember when the bypass opened, I used to take the toll bridge to the IDA estate, it was dead in the mornings. But the better route created induced demand and now its crazy busy. The only people who are still driving through the city are too cheap to pay the toll and clearly don't value their time and this is killing the city.

Plenty of old citys can manage with even larger population but they must manage car access and Waterford has not done this well. YOu talk about opening lanes but there are citys that have gotten rid of large roads and the citys have massively benefitted, Waterford can too with proper vision.

One example, Utrecht pop of over 300k
https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2016/01/05/motorway-removed-to-bring-back-original-water/

Dunmoreroader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123257024#Comment_123257024

Cheers Cabaal, that's a great story about Utrecht, I watched the video on your link and it beggars belief that they filled in the canal and built that ugly 12 lane motorway! It gives great hope for what a future Waterford could look like if we have the vision and, as you say, the change of mindset about the almighty car.

Cabaal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123257385#Comment_123257385

My dream would be the turn the carparks on the quays into pedestrian/park space.

It would completely change the view of the city.

While smaller, its worth remembering that Kilkenny got rid of the entire carpark on the parrade by Kilkenny Castle only in the last 15 years, the carpark allowed cars to park from the main junction all the way upto and including the front of the castle. Crazy when you think about it.

They were accused of killing businesses etc etc but if you said you were going to change it back to a carpark now they'd be uproar.

The space is now a pedestrian space and hosts various festival events and markets on a regular basis.

Before: (Hard to find a modern photo showing the entire carpark….its almost as if nobody found it pretty enough to take a photo!!)

After:

azimuth17

I think that Waterford actually led the way nationally on pedestrianisation in George's Street and John Robert's Square in the early 1980s and has tried to continue that process. A combinatiion of ecnomic forces, relatively poor, albeit much improving tourism and a general difficulty in attracting investment has caused problems. Kilkenny, a much smaller town, has kept streets open (ie the Parade) while Waterford city has gone full pedestrianisation. It is ironic that most of the people seeking a four lane quay seem to be those exiting the city every evening to return to county Kilkenny or Wexford. Too mean to pay the toll?

Asdfgh2020

This thread has gone completely off topic. Time to close it …??

Chip Whitley

Not at all, there has been fascinating insights into the planning of roads and pedestrianisation. Why close a thread when there's genuine discourse?

Jerry Atrick

Sat in traffic jam here from Williamstown all way down to St Annes at 1.00pm...an absolute cluster f#ck of a decision on the new roundabout. Zero accountability.

Hodger

When I read some posters saying " people just need to change their habits " . People still need to drive to their place of work / people still need to drive their young kids to school / people still need to drive to their supermarket to do weekly shopping. As for the Quay some people might be driving in from across the bridge to go to their place of work, whether it's in the town centre or a factory on the Industrial estate. This idea that it's somehow OK for unelected council officials to make changes to different roundabouts / different traffic lanes to cause disruption to everyday motorists who just want to go about their daily lives is BS . The local planning decisions should be returned to elected councillors who were actually elected and voted onto the council.

iseegirls

The St Johns Park road from the inner ring road to the outer ring road seems busier since the change to the roundabout. Maybe some feel it's quicker to go out that way than through the Grange/Johns Hill.

Jerry Atrick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123264283#Comment_123264283

Well said

GandhiwasfromBallyfermot

I'm not familiar with the area, was there traffic here before the new roundabout?

Cabaal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123264283#Comment_123264283

Anyone driving down the quays that works in the IDA that then complaints about the traffic on the quays or cork road clearly don't value their time. If they did you'd go the bypass.

The only people driving down the quays should be those living on the quays, thats not very many.

In many instances people can do all those things you say by other routes and means in a large amount of cases especially if more road space is given to active travel and public transport. Business as usual hasn't worked and will continue not to work.

People forget when they moan about traffic congestion that they ARE the traffic congestion, they are the cause and they are the problem. It's simply impossible for everyone to drive everywhere in the city like many people want to keep doing.

The problem with your suggestion is Cllr's simply have zero clue about traffic congestion models, road designs, safety standards, induced demand etc.

It's like taking a random person off the street to design a hospital or train network with stations but only giving them 5 years in position to finish a project that takes long term planning and vision of 10+ years. Then replacing them with another random person who also hasn't a clue. it would be idiotic.

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123277957#Comment_123277957

Is the Pope a Catholic?

Hodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123278051#Comment_123278051

The same bypass bridge that someone has to pay a fee to cross ?

Besides the Industrial estate and working in the town centre; there are other reasons why someone might be driving on the quay someone might be coming from across the bridge to work in the hospital or someone might be coming from across the bridge to go visit someone in hospital among various other reasons why someone might be driving on the quay.

Its not just me suggesting elected councillors should be allowed a proper say in issues of any changes to roads or roundabouts that effect traffic; some of the councillors are saying so themselves due to feedback they have being getting from people in their localities.

"There are pedestrian crossings on all sides of the Roundabout, but on one side there's only one lane, and that is what we believe is causing delayed traffic. "

"You could get stuck in traffic for up to half an hour, and people cannot get into their estates. It's clogging up one side of the city and for what reason? It doesn't make any sense. We have never been given a proper explanation. The problem with this Roundabout is that it was imposed on the people."

" Several Councillors also said in recent months that no voice had been given to the public in relation to the project, following rules under then Transport Minister Eamon Ryan in relation to Councillors in local authorities having no vote when it came to active travel initiatives. "

https://www.wlrfm.com/news/stuck-in-traffic-for-up-to-half-an-hour-traffic-issues-at-farronshoneen-roundabout-raised-by-local-councillor-461498

" At the December meeting of the Metropolitan Council, several councillors spoke damningly on the level of traffic and delays throughout the city. 

Councillor Pat Fitzgerald (Sinn Féin) said: "Its an immediate priority to review traffic along the Quays. We have to do something, everything stems back to the one lane traffic on the Quay."

" Councillor Adam Wyse (Fianna Fáil) spoke about the traffic situation around Farronshoneen, and said: "We're coming up on a year since the roadworks on Farronshoneen Roundabout. Since then there have been huge issues on traffic there." 

Cllr Wyse told the Council how a recent drive from the bottom of John's Hill to the Roundabout took him 41 minutes to make, and commented: "If you were in my constituency and you had a kid going to school in that area, it would take you an hour and 20 minutes each day to get from school to home."

He pointed to the one-lane system as exacerbating the problem and raised the possibility of reintroducing the two-lane system. "

https://www.waterford-news.ie/news/metro-raises-questions-over-city-centre-traffic-in-waterford_arid-42017.html?fbclid=IwY2xjawJIJldleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbstmufT6Dq0n0elSRTaPecpXLmJkK5-H3Vy4ACoVxvKB02NVb7aQJSL2Q_aem_2lzizlulzeq3Lddm_smjkQ

Local democracy and local issues people vote in local council election and elect people onto the council to deal with local issues; any changes to roads or roundabouts that lead in Increased delays in traffic is a local issue that people living in effected areas are going to have strong opinions about.

Now given that people are paying house tax since it was slowly phased in from 2012 and given businesses are paying rates to the council people should be entitled to have proper say with proper representation on their local council with councilors who allowed to have a say on road planning / traffic changes.

To not do so and have a unelected officials Imposing such changes is anti democratic.

Hodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123277957#Comment_123277957

Of course there was traffic but there wasnt delayed traffic on an almost daily basis like there is now thanks to the changes to make a one lane system at the roundabout .

ArtVandelay76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123278051#Comment_123278051

If you're coming from somewhere out around Slieverue or past it and working in IDA industrial estate there is very little difference time wise between using the tolled bypass or going through the city.

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123280037#Comment_123280037

You lost me when you start on about the "town" centre! Sums up attitudes for me anyway.

Cabaal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123280037#Comment_123280037

Great, so unqualified people are saying they want to make the decisions….thats not the silver bullet you think it is. 😂

Idiotic ideas like seeking to revert the quays back to 4 car lanes shows a complete misunderstanding of traffic congestion models, induced demand, road safety and unwillingness to allocate much needed road space to public transport and active travel. None of this is in the interest of the general public.

It also ignores the fact the the quays was awful even when it was 4 lanes before, you know what makes it awful?
People insisting on driving everywhere and anywhere and forgetting that they are the traffic congestion.

In the short term it may slightly reduce traffic, but two to five years down the line things will be the same again.

iseegirls

People also tend to ignore the fact that 4 lanes of free flowing traffic was never the case on the quay, despite lots of rose-tinted glasses. There was always cars/buses parked outside Granville, Dooleys, Traceys, alongside delivery trucks and then the usual people throwing the hazard lights on in to go on a message round. There are so many right turns, that may see cars coming from Bridge towards Tower Hotel using the inside lane to wait and turn right. And if they went back to 4 lanes, there would be no space for roundabouts. Traffic will move onto other pressure points as well then. Just because there may be two lanes for cars to get quickly down the quay doesn't mean that you'll cross the same sized bridge any quicker.

iseegirls

Regarding the changes to Farronshoneen Roundabout, have the other 3 routes which hit that roundabout seen a better/quicker flow? It must help them slightly if there are fewer cars coming from the Grange direction. Would be interesting to know.

Speak Now

Williamstown road on other side flows much better but that maybe due to inside lane being left turn only.

Hodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123280567#Comment_123280567

When someone drives to out by the Farronshoneen roundabout whether its coming home from work / or bringing kids home from school or someone going to visit a relative: most people can see the problems caused by the new one lane traffic system I don't think someone needs a degree or has to be an engineer to recognize it has caused more problems for everyday motorists who just want to go about their daily business.

This petition relating to the roundabout and the high number of signatures it has received shows many people have a problem with the new one lane system at the roundabout. The people and businesses in that locality who are paying house tax and rates to the council deserve to have their voices heard regarding their disapproval with the new changes.

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/waterford/news/the-lack-of-democracy-is-infuriating-nearly-1800-sign-petition-calling-for-redesign-of-busy-waterford-roundabout/a1864438480.html

I read various posts and online comments by some of the councilors calling for change this reply from cllr adam wyse to someone in the comments section speaks volumes: it speaks volumes that one unelected person has the authority to impose such traffic changes on people on one locality without any of the councilors who are on the council to represent that locality having zero say n zero Input.

Full comment thread in link.

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=3823313821253346&set=a.1388555194729233

I specifically screenshotted the comment people need to see what level of accountability we getting back from the council in return local taxes households and businesses pay one person deciding to Impose traffic changes because in their own words " doesn’t need council approval " .