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Easiest way to get a GUI handicap

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    #92
    monkeybutter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122077796#Comment_122077796

    look you either look it up or you don't, you was saying it false with no basis, why bother to interact with this kind of person

    not one other person put anything but off the cuff opinions out there

    and Its great you like him but based on his interactions here, I'm going to doubt it



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    #93
    FixdePitchmark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,813 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    On Paulo's point above ..it wouldn't instill confidence if they initially introduced it with a time element of needing to leave a club for a year ..then it gets in and is reduced to 30 days..

    30 days is bullshit ..if they initially seen the risk..

    So is a case of once door is open...

    Can still see a positive if more golfers in association paying more for opens.

    Do also think there is an issue of clubs running opens way too cheap ...are people still getting into opens for 20 quid ..maybe 25 ?



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    #94
    finglashoop
    Registered Users Posts: 2,109 ✭✭✭finglashoop


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084767#Comment_122084767

    I wonder was the original year to get poeple not at clubs involved and also to stop people leaving a club to join



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    #95
    FixdePitchmark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,813 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084951#Comment_122084951

    I'd say that was idea...but you shouldn't reduce the year at all...would completely avoid 90 % of concerns here...



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    #96
    Seve OB
    Registered Users Posts: 15,859 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084428#Comment_122084428

    someone raging because they didn't understand the implications….. well, they only have themselves to blame.

    any i find it very odd that they continue to pay a reduced sub to the club, but weren't afforded the opportunity to retain GI membership with said club.

    If i were him, I'd simply ask the club to reregister him with GI and pay the fee.



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    #97
    coillcam
    Registered Users Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭coillcam


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085040#Comment_122085040

    I don't think he's smashing up his gaff with rage here lads.

    The club still has to pay something towards GI afaik to keep him on the books but he doesn't retain a HC. It's probably in all club constitutions and GI T&Cs tbf.



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    #98
    FixdePitchmark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,813 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085155#Comment_122085155

    If he is on app and has paid his GI ..what is club at.....



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    #99
    coillcam
    Registered Users Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭coillcam


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085189#Comment_122085189

    He's not visible on GI app or comps/booking system. So I assume that he's in the backend of the system on ice. I don't know the breakdown of the fee for taking a year out but I'll ask him next time I see him. Normally I've only heard of people who were sick taking a year out.



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    #100
    Seve OB
    Registered Users Posts: 15,859 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085155#Comment_122085155

    lol, no i understand what you mean.

    but agree with Fix here, he has paid GUI fee so you'd have to wonder what is going on with club



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    #101
    bobster453
    Registered Users Posts: 637 ✭✭✭bobster453


    So I just did a quick calculation.

    Between membership and sub, entering competitions, supporting the club raffles, supporting the restaurant every time I play, I leave in the region of 2500 euro annually at my club.

    A lot of members at other clubs leave a lot more.

    All for the love of the game and supporting a club as CLUB MEMBERS.

    Why in the name of all thats holy would I want to subsidise anyone being able to have the same privileges as me for 55 euro annually?

    Golf is an expensive hobby, both financially and time wise ..always has been..always will be simply because members, unless a member of a business club, own the course,the club and pay for its upkeep.

    If you cant afford membership, and I was that way when kids were young too, take up a cheaper hobby like pitch and putt.

    Dont expect me or anyone else to subsidise you.

    Golf Ireland are in for a rude awakening when clubs start kicking back against this, as they must, for if they dont the country will be flooded with ex members who left to take up igolf with no courses to play on as they will be closed through loss of funds.



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    #102
    bobster453
    Registered Users Posts: 637 ✭✭✭bobster453


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084607#Comment_122084607

    No you made a statement of fact not an offf the cuff opinion and threw your toys out of the pram when you were called out on it.

    Bet you are fun to live with..not

    More to be pitied than laughed at.



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    #103
    bustercherry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭bustercherry


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122092419#Comment_122092419

    What are you subsidising? They don't get access to your course and can't play for your club. If they want to play a course they still have to pay for the privilege.

    I think it potentially a good thing but not for getting people into golf. It could be a step toward Golf Ireland centrally managing all handicaps.



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    #104
    bobster453
    Registered Users Posts: 637 ✭✭✭bobster453


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122092713#Comment_122092713

    Currently the only way to get a handicap is by being a member of a club.

    If people can get a handicap without paying membership fees and being a member of a club that will still need to be maintained then somebody has to pay for it.

    If not them then the members.



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    #105
    FixdePitchmark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,813 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122092419#Comment_122092419

    Ive been looking around and some.clubs are charging 20 quid for an open ?

    They would want to get their heads examined.

    Some clubs are perpetuating below cost golf themselves..

    Push that up to 30 quid.to start ..then have the conversion again....

    Post edited by FixdePitchmark on


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    #106
    bustercherry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭bustercherry


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122092793#Comment_122092793

    But they will pay a Golf Ireland subscription just like all current members do to obtain the handicap and upkeep off the systems. The Golf Ireland fee is separate to a club membership fee.

    I also would assume that an additional surcharge will be added to these handicap types for any manual maintenance required.



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    #107
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,466 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122092713#Comment_122092713

    What are you subsidising

    Most courses wouldn't survive on green fees alone. Green fee income is unreliable in the most part, if it rains for the entire month of June you can guarantee that green fee income will be well down on what it would be if June is beautiful and hot.

    Clubs need the income from their membership so they can invest in the course.



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    #108
    bustercherry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭bustercherry


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093276#Comment_122093276

    What the are you on about?

    He said that by being a member of a club "he's subsidising anyone being able to have the same privileges as me". They don't have the same privileges as they are not part of his club. All they obtain is an official handicap maintained by Golf Ireland and something that club members pay separately for at the moment anyway.

    No one gets any sort of rights to a course or club facilities. You will still need to join a club for that (or pay separately for the the privilege) and there is a not going to be a mass exodus of members overnight because of this, they still need to play golf somewhere.



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    #109
    JVince
    Registered Users Posts: 831 ✭✭✭JVince


    easiest/cheapest way to get a handicap is to take a flexi mebership of Highfield GC in Edenderry for €195.

    This gives you a GUI membership and 10 rounds of golf. Play 3/4 games and you have your handicap.

    Friends on mine currently in the US got their cards earlier this year when visiting and plan a trip to some of the top course in the southwest in Sept - all at GUI rates. (saving a fortune on non gui rates)



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    #110
    FixdePitchmark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,813 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093276#Comment_122093276

    I think you are getting to the heart of the matter..

    There seems to be members and golfers expecting golf below cost as is.

    If these "igolfers" want to be free agents ...they can expect to pay full costs ....



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    #111
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,466 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093352#Comment_122093352

    With this new iGolf thing, you get an official handicap.

    Having a handicap, by itself, is fairly meaningless. Having a handicap is only useful if you want to play golf, and to play golf, you need to play on a course.

    These iGolf members, since they aren't club members, will pay green fees instead when they want to play golf. These iGolf members will get to play competitive golf on courses, courses that are in good condition thanks to the money put into them by their members.

    Yea, this happens today with green fees, but the trade off is people entering opens are members of other clubs, so they have at least paid their way somewhere else. People who aren't members of other courses can only play casual golf.

    In this new model, people who have contributed almost nothing financially into golf courses in Ireland can enter the same opens as those who have. This is where the subsidy comes in.

    IMO, the only way this can possibly work is if the iGolf crowd are charged a significant surcharge on top of green fees when they enter an open. Even then, it's unlikely to come close.



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    #112
    callaway92
    Registered Users Posts: 14,400 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093355#Comment_122093355

    Slievenamon cheaper

    And you have full playing rights there (including Captains and Presidents Prize). No limit on amount of rounds either.



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    #113
    bustercherry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭bustercherry


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093454#Comment_122093454

    You are talking absolute moronic hyperbolic crap. You clearly don't understanding that Golf Ireland and a Club are completely different entities. If I join a club in the morning and obtain a handicap, I can play in opens. It's not the responsibility of the course hosting the open competition to ensure that I have paid my way somewhere else 🙄

    Golf Clubs or courses are not part of some big money sharing co-operative in Ireland, they are member clubs or businesses operating as separate entities and always have been. The course/club hosting the open is entitled to set their price to whatever they feel the value is to cover the product they are selling. If they are discounted from the rack rate for Golf Ireland or other club member, they can decide themselves.



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    #114
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,466 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093634#Comment_122093634

    I think the point is sailing over your head unfortunately.

    Golf Ireland would be absolutely nothing whatsoever without the clubs. Golf in general in Ireland would be absolutely nothing without the clubs.

    Clubs wouldn't exist without their membership.

    Anything that undercuts club membership brings big risk to club income, and therefore brings risk to the viability of clubs, and should therefore be a concern to anyone interested in the sport.

    The fact that these iGolf lads will pay green fees is not a mitigation against this. Clubs cannot survive on green fee income.



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    #115
    bustercherry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭bustercherry


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093358#Comment_122093358

    The problem here is club members (and this forum) expect Opens to be discounted golf and a popular misconception is I pay my club membership/golf Ireland fees to have that. This couldn't be further from the truth.

    Nothing changes from my perspective, these my handicap holders still have to pay for golf. They are not getting subsidised to play opens by your membership fee (if you are not a member of that club). It's up to the course to price their product.

    It's all a bit of double standards to be honest, I should be getting cheap green fees but these lads are not entitled to them.

    To be honest I couldn't care either way as they won't affect me. I do think Golf Ireland cold use this as a way to centrally manage handicaps and remove that burden from the clubs. That way it's not up to the clubs to police and be easier to suspend/deal with the obvious cheats without threats agains the club once they attempt to deal with them.



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    #116
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,466 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093358#Comment_122093358

    The cost is one issue for me, but it's also just a significant change in how golf is run here. It's almost getting something for nothing, there is no reciprocation.

    If Club A hosts an open, someone from club B can go and play it with a Golf Ireland rate. But this is reciprocal, Club A members can go play club B or club C with Golf Ireland rates.

    With the new model, Club A can host an open and some lad with an iGolf can come in and get the Golf Ireland rate. What do members of Club A get in return? Nothing.

    Like I know there are clubs that don't hold Opens, and IMO members of those clubs should be excluded from participating in Opens elsewhere.

    IMO decoupling handicaps from club membership is a significant risk, particularly for the smaller clubs that survive close to the breadline.



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    #117
    monkeybutter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122092443#Comment_122092443

    still having trouble using a search engine it seems

    you called me out on it? how did you do that exactly

    look it seemed i cut too close to the bone on the last remark



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    #118
    bobster453
    Registered Users Posts: 637 ✭✭✭bobster453


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122093808#Comment_122093808

    Didnt cut too close to the bone at all, just let yourself down forcing me to respond in kind.

    But I am big enough to accept your apology and leave it at that ok.



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    #119
    El Guapo!
    Registered Users Posts: 12,431 ✭✭✭✭El Guapo!


    A lot of the comments I've seen on this are the typical pearl clutching, the world is ending, kneejerk reactions that always seem to pop up anytime change is mentioned.


    This change was always going to come about. The UK have it with iGolf. The USGA have it with their GHIN app. As is usual, Ireland lags behind and is one of the last to adopt any changes. We seem to have this attitude of "Oh well things are different here than everywhere else and we need to do things differently..." which is completely untrue. We're no more special than any other country despite what people want to believe.


    When this change comes about, there's not going to be a massive exodus of members resulting in clubs shutting their doors within weeks. This isn't the end of days. The vast vast majority of club members aren't members purely to obtain a handicap. They're members because they either A) Enjoy the club aspect of it. Or B) It makes financial sense to be a member. I fall into the latter category. It makes financial sense for me and I enjoy being able to nip out for 9 or 12 holes on summer evenings. Being a member gives me the ability to do that. I couldn't give a hoot about the club aspect and I'd be considered a carpark golfer by some people on here. I generally only walk through the doors of the club to use the toilet and that's it. Some people on here would look down on me for that and say that I should be somehow obliged to "support the club more." That side of it doesn't interest me, and that attitude annoys me.


    Tbh, if clubs lost all of their members purely because of this new iGolf change, then that's a failure on the clubs behalf. If all they have to offer is a handicap, then their business model is flawed and they need to offer more to keep members. If opens are the main issue then all the clubs need to do is get together and have a special "member affiliate" rate which gives the discount to anyone who's a member of another club. If clubs see this change as a threat, then they should also get together and have more partnerships that are mutually beneficial. A number of clubs banding together and offering discounted green fees to each others members would certainly make the membership option more attractive.


    Lots of people here are losing their minds about this when they had zero issues with people paying buttons for a distance membership purely to obtain a handicap. Smacks of hypocrisy to me.


    There's also still this attitude of the old boys club among people here. The whole world is making the sport more accessible for everybody yet there's still a lot of gatekeeping going on, keeping out the peasants. Some of the comments here are horrendous, particularly the one along the lines of "If you can't afford a club membership then go find another hobby". That is a disgusting comment and if that's your attitude then you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself tbh.



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    #120
    bustercherry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭bustercherry


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122094547#Comment_122094547

    Well said.

    In fact, some people seem to think that the only operating model of a club is member owned, when in fact not all clubs are member owner courses. If you join a non member owned club, you pay the course for membership and golf Ireland membership fees. Generally the only source of income the club has is comp fees which has to be used too fund interclub panels, social events etc… So in that case the iGolf lads actually contribute to the club if they are playing in an Open comp (as opposed to green fees) as the club would be usually getting a cut of the entry to oversee the comp of behalf of the course.



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    #121
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,466 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122094547#Comment_122094547

    Golf in Ireland is very, very different to the US at least.

    Over there the overwhelming majority of golfers are not members of any club. The majority of golfers never, ever play competitive golf. And I’m not talking about the guys who play once a year, I mean the lads who play golf multiple times a week. Competitive golf just isn’t really a thing.

    They have private clubs, which are like country clubs where the costs are huge (the uber wealthy), and they have municipal courses. Municipal course membership isn’t like membership here.

    A club membership model like we have in Ireland, at our price levels, just doesn’t exist in the US.

    the UK is also overwhelming casual golf, and again most golfers there aren’t club members.

    So when people suggest Ireland is not different to the UK or the US they are wrong. Golf is so much more accessible here. UK is closer to us than the US is but it’s still significantly different.



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