About to buy first EV

Zaph

My wife's old car is giving up the ghost so it's time for a replacement and she's decided that she wants to get an EV. It'll be used mainly for her daily commute and local trips so range isn't a major issue and we'll use my ICE car for any longer journeys. We just got a home charger installed, and envisage pretty much all charging to be done at home. The likelihood is that the car will be kept for at least 5 years, so ideally we're looking at 2021/22 models. Having had a look at a few sites there are a number of cars she likes the look of that would fit our budget, but neither of us have any experience of EVs, so we'd be interested in hearing if there are any compelling reasons for or against buying any of the following - Volkswagen ID3, Peugeot 208, Opel Corsa or BMW i3.

Obviously the other obvious choice is a Nissan Leaf, but a recent thread here made reference to Chademo and CCS chargers, and how there could be an issue for public charging in the future. I'm not really clear on what the issue is, is it that the Leaf uses older and presumably slower charging technology? And on the subject of public charging, on the off chance she'll need it once in a while is there a specific company to sign up with, or do Electric Ireland cover all public chargers?

Any other tips or advice on what to look out for before we go looking at cars would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058322508/about-to-buy-first-ev

Maybe post in this thread for advice https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057685376/this-weeks-ev-bargain-that-im-not-buying#latest

Flinty997

I'm no expert. Here's my personal option as a novice.

Newer Leafs uses a charger thats probably going to harder to find in future years if you are doing long trips. Also it might be slow to charge on the 2nd and 3rd charge when on a long journey.

If you are doing almost entirely local trips and home charging this don't effect you. But it will hurt resale and trade in values. So don't over pay for one. Other than that a nice EV. I don't like the looks myself. But I think it a lot of car if you get a deal and are aware of the limitations.

BMW only had seats 4 and has weird back doors which might be annoying if you have kids. Otherwise a class act.

For me personally I don't know anything about the Open or Peugeot. These are bands people either love it hate.

Always liked VW but the ID3 has buggy software and annoying touch controls. But it's a great EV otherwise. It's come down in price so possible to get a cheaper one now. I enjoyed test drive more than I expected.

I think you should test drive them all. The interiors and controls are quite different in them. I expect you'll like one more than the others if you do..

Akrasia

If you're charging at home then fast chargers and public chargers are irrelevant 99 % of the time, and if you're going in a long trip, the motorway service stations will continue to have Chademo for years to come

You'll need to get both the easygo app and the ESB ecar connect apps to use the majority of public chargers and there are some free chargers on the easygo app to get some free juice if you're out and about and want to park for a few hours

Oscar_Madison

A few things to consider:

1. You may find you’ll fall in love with the EV and will use it at every opportunity - leaving the ICE in the driveway most of the time (guess it depends what sort of ICE you have I guess
2. If 1 is true for you, then you’ll regret not getting something with decent range - maybe you have a company car or are super rich 😀- but if not, your ICE today may get used less and less which may mean you’ll wish it was bigger faster and with more range
3. A new car purchase might give you more favourable credit terms if taking out a loan - just something to consider
4. So really, if you think you’ll both start arguing over who takes the EV 😀- then maybe consider a bigger newer model and literally use it for as much travel as possible

We both have ICE’s but mine is 15 years old now - an cheap low range EV will be my next car simply because the other ICE is very good and still owing a few quid on it - but if I could turn back the clock I would have gone brand new EV, good range - might have cost a bit more but long term I think it would have made sense

...Ghost...

You haven't mentioned what car she has and what are the detailed needs. If there are kids, that can mean the difference between choosing a practical ID3, or a fun i3.

Anyway, I see the budget is around 25k, so a decent starting point for a used EV. Let's see:

ID3. She's a practical econobox with a reliable badge. Could do a lot worse.

Opel & Peugeot. Not heard much about these, but they are on the smaller side.

i3. Small but roomy and very marmite. Only 4 seats. Fun go-kart driving. You'd be looking at the larger battery for your budget.

Leaf. Worth considering. Super reliable and despite being CHAdeMO, is still a serious contender unless the car is needed for regular long journeys of 200km or more. If getting one, go for the Tekna/SVE model.

Zaph

Thanks all, some very useful advice to go on there, appreciate you taking the time to reply. To answer a couple of questions asked - she's replacing a Golf. She isn't interested in anything much bigger than that, so the cars I asked about should be OK on that score. No kids and very rarely have anyone in the back seat, so access to the back seats is not a big concern other than for shopping, etc. Only long trip we do regularly is to Cork several times a year. We'll be using my car for that as it's a tedious enough drive without making it longer by having to stop and recharge! Don't have the budget for a new EV unfortunately, so it will have to be a used model, but should be able to pick up something fairly recent with the funds available. We're going to pick out a few cars on the usual websites over the next day or two and go have a look at them at the weekend, so hopefully she'll have a better idea what she wants after that.

Flinty997

There's also the eGolf, Electric Mini if you don't need the range. Both more engaging to drive than some other EVs.

Market has fallen at the moment, so a lot more choice in your price range.

AMKC

Kia E-Niro and Hyundai Kona are two more EVs you could check out second hand.

Kia E-Soul as well second hand is a great car.

Renault Zoe too but its not really very big and range is not great still a great little car do.

Hyundai Ionic. Great looking car. It's the car the Ionic 5 replaced.

Zaph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121369500#Comment_121369500

The zero NCAP rating on the Zoe has ruled that out, which is a pity because my wife likes the look of them. Neither of us I are fans of the Ionic's looks, particularly the front of it, I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Not too familiar with the others though, must check them out.

Flinty997

Really have to sit and drive them.

eastie17

Polestar 2 is great and kind of Golf size but is expensive, great spec and a phenomenal drive

Zaph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121369690#Comment_121369690

Yeah, unfortunately about double our budget!

MojoMaker

Steady on with the "phenomenal drive" nonsense 🤣

grudgehugger

I've owned a Nissan Leaf 40 for 5 years now. It's been 100% reliable, I love it and I hope it keeps going for another 10 years - there are caveats though...

* 99% of my charging is home charging so the Chademo thing is not an issue

* The longest drive I do in it is approx 160km from Greystones to Athlone. It can do this no problem as long as not driven at 110+ on the motorway (obvs I could go further if I stopped to charge but I don't like doing that if I can avoid it - we have an old Skoda Superb that gets used for longer trips)

* I am very comfortable with driving the car until the battery is down to its last percent or two as long as I know I have enough battery to get to my destination. I know other EV owners who won't let the battery go down anywhere near that low "in case of the worst". Depending on which category you see yourself in, factor that in to the size of battery you need

CelticRambler

Point of info: the new Citroën ë-3 coming out next year will be priced at around 23k for the basic model, so you're not necessarily restricted to the secondhand market.

AndyBoBandy

If you could stretch the budget to the €32-€33k mark, you are getting into Tesla Model 3 territory, and you are then on another level when compared to everything else you’ve considered…

A Model 3 would become your main car though… even for long drives thanks to the Supercharger network…

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/35220400

TESLA MODEL3 STANDARD RANGE PLUS - 1 OWNER- 2019

jlang

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121370157#Comment_121370157

33k for that 4 year old Model 3 seems a little steep when a brand new one is listing at under 42k (without the tow bar). Of course both are out of the poster's budget and a Tesla would be larger and less hatchback-y than needed to replace a Golf.

...Ghost...

I didn't go into Tesla Model 3 territory because the OP was talking about smaller cars and the Tesla is about 5-7k over the estimated budget. There's also the fact that the OP would be stealing his partners car all the time if she got a Model 3 😂

Driving to Cork...the ICE would be left behind, I guarantee you. 5 star safety, comfort and waaay cheaper to get there and back.

Zaph

For all the benefits a Tesla may offer, it's just too far over the budget to even bother thinking about. The e-3 looks interesting, but I just had a look and it's on sale in Q1 next year, so with delivery time added it could be well into next year before she got one, and she doesn't really want to wait that long. Pity, would have been nice to have the novelty of a brand new car.

Take a test drive in a Renault Zoe GT line r135 model, loads of spec

24k would get you 2021 or 2022 depending on your neg skills.

Superfun little car, during the summer around town we get near 400km's for 7 euro charge.

120km commuting on motorways drops to 300km,

In winter town 300km motorway 250km

Zaph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121373074#Comment_121373074

The Zoe was actually the first car she looked at, but the zero star NCAP rating saw it quickly removed from the list of possibles.

The zero star NCAP is the base Life model

The GT line has 5 star

User1998

Theres a few cars now with zero NCAP ratings now because they added loads of safety features like front crash detection and lane assist etc. They are not dangerous cars at all.

vimalandrew

I am owning a Toyota Bz4x and I am very happy with it. It costs more than 50K. Once they expose the rest of the battery, I may get 450km on ful charge. During winter when heater is on, all these electric cars will give you only 60 to 70 percent of the range.

After looking around, my advice is to go for a Chinese car. They are 10K less than our usual models. MG or BYD. MG Zs EV looks old style. So MG4 or BYD Atto3 are the best choices in the current market. They provide something around 400km range. If you want a range of more than 550km, I would advice for the new BYD Zeal which has a 82kw battery. For the coming 3 or 4 years, a Chinese car would be the best option.

Toyota has already invented solid state battery which can give 1200km which can charge in 0 minutes, which is not affected by cold or hot climate, which is half expensive than current, which is half the weight than current. So wait for 3 or 4 years for that and you can see that Japan is going to rise again as a super power with their solid state battery technology.

Rowley Birkin QC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121373149#Comment_121373149

This is a total sidebar but how is there a car for sale that has a 0 NCAP rating?

Is it waiting reassessment or some other bureaucratic tangle?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121375051#Comment_121375051

Combination of reassessment and cost cutting.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121374938#Comment_121374938

Toyota has already invented solid state battery which can give 1200km which can charge in 0 minutes,

It's just around the corner isn't it...? You're a gas man Vimal.... you loved the car when you got it, then you hated it, and now you love it again....?

Every year they announce that solid state batteries are just around the corner... so don't buy an EV just yet... keep buying our self charging hybrids....

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121375051#Comment_121375051

The Zoe when released had a 5 star rating, between NCAP changes and removal of a head airbag it dropped to 0 stars. Mostly it was test changes that reduced it from 5 to 0 stars.

Nowadays you need a lot more active safety systems to maintain a high rating.

Redfox25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121375067#Comment_121375067

Andy, don't be trying to use things like evidence to convince vim otherwise, Toyota is king for him.

Poor chap.

vimalandrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121375067#Comment_121375067

See my dear. Companies have already invested billions in li ion battery factories. So it will take time to make a change. Also America wants tesla to be number one and Elon Musk to be the world's richest person. Tesla share prices they want to keep high. I know few months back, gautam Adani, from my home country was about to overtake Musk as the richest person. But immediately they screwed him. So we need to wait.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121375329#Comment_121375329

The US Government doesn't particulary care about Tesla. The Democrats care more about ensuring electrification is happening via unionised manufacturing plants and that manufacturing is performed in the USA via onshored jobs, Elon Musk isn't particularly popular amongst the Democrat party.

Developments of new battery chemistries such as solid state alternatives largley use similar manufacturing process to existing li-ion chemistry. They are an evolutionary change similar to upgrading manufacturing lines in a TV manufacturing plant. We're not going to see stranded assets due to investment today like you would if you invested in a new combustion engine manufacturing facility.

Advising someone to avoid buying any EV today because of Toyota's "next big thing" is like telling a PC enthusiast to wait for the next processor/graphics card. You'll be forever waiting and never end up making a purchase

AndyBoBandy

.... so anyway, I'd highly advise against anyone getting a bz4x as their 1st foray into EV's, and given the fact they're north of €50k, they are completely irrelevant to this discussion...

A lot of the Tesla's listed at around €33k have been sitting there for a while, and if some of them are owners waiting to upgrade to a Highland Model 3, the closer we get to Jan/Feb, the more likely they'll take an offer (well?) below asking... I reckon some could be got for only a few €K above OP's budget at the right time.. but if getting a Model 3 it would very soon become the main family car rather than replacing a hatchback style 2nd car.. so something for the OP to consider.. As although they are extremely fast, they are also extremely efficient, and the technology/multimedia on board is 2nd to none. They are also extremely good long distance cruisers (even the original base 2019/2020 50kWh SR+, of which I drove mine to Lithuania and back)...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121375067#Comment_121375067

Mod Note: Snip, let's stick to OP's topic of looking for a roughly golf sized EV

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121375410#Comment_121375410

OP has alread said they aren't interested in Model 3, due to it's size and cost, the Model 3 is a big compared to the ones mentioned. To me that would put my short list down to

Corsa-E/e208, ID.3, Kona, Soul, Ioniq, i3, Leaf

The Mini is great for a no kids with 2nd car, it's fun to drive and a nice place to spend time so long as your willing to deal with a 3 door. I think there's decent value in the e208/Corsa at around 20k.

vimalandrew

Ok, Now I got the point. Golf sized EV. The one I can say is MG 4 EV.

jlang

Megane electric should be on the list too but doesn't seem to be out long enough to have any availability on the second hand market.

crl84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121376215#Comment_121376215

Would be perfect, but outside OP's budget unfortunately, unless they can wait until next year and a few might pop up 2nd hand.

If they can stretch to 30k, could get a new standard range MG4.

Cupra Born might slip to their budget next year.

Woodie40

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121370157#Comment_121370157

As a former owner of a Tesla Model 3 stay well clear. I would sooner drive a Dacia Duster than the poorly made downmarket Tesla. Stay well clear.

Buy a German EV at least it will be built properly.

MojoMaker

lol

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121377772#Comment_121377772

Yes. Buy German EV and subscribe to heated seats, radio, electric windows, whatever else they can lock you out of with a pay wall 😂

The vast majority of people who have actually owned a Tesla (especially a MIC one) are very happy with their car. Its not for the OP though, so no need to bring your Duster into the fray. 🤣

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121369690#Comment_121369690

Much bigger than a golf inside and out. It's sedan size.

MojoMaker

Very cramped interior though, is smaller inside than it looks from the outside. Cheap , dark cabin, and if you find a fwd version....keep walking.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121440590#Comment_121440590

I would also say it’s bigger than a golf but not as big as other similar sized EV’s. Cramped and cocooned in comparison.

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445779#Comment_121445779

The interior space in a Polestar 2 certainly isn't cramped. It's around the same as an A3 Sedan so small if you are comparing it to something like an ID4. It makes up for it with plenty of boot space and everything inside works (very well).

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121449081#Comment_121449081

The feeling of space can be subjective. I think it’s cramped compared to other EV’s in the same segment. It’s just the cocoon design.

Maybe it the huge centre console and the angle that does that for me.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121449081#Comment_121449081

Given it’s price point, it’s hard not to compare it to some of the more spacious EV’s like the ID.4. For me it’s overpriced for what you get in terms of cabin space and battery size. It’s interior finish is ahead of most of its competitors which may partly justify the list price.

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121449917#Comment_121449917

I wholeheartedly disagree. You get a 67kwh battery for 53k. Tesla can do better, the Germans certainly can't. That 77kwh ID4 is going to cost you over 60k so you're stuck with what 56kwh?

In terms of size, remember it's a sporty coupé, not an ID4 competitor.

The P2, Model 3 and Model Y are the best EVs on the market. I'll change my mind when I don't have to plug my phone into every other EV.

celtic_oz

Surely best value at the moment ?

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121455801#Comment_121455801

Each to their own but a brand new 77kWh ID.4 is now available for just over €41K not €60K. https://www.donedeal.ie/view/33084486

Some Polestar salesperson done well to convince you that a 5 door hatchback is a sporty coupe. 😂

Basilio

Cheapest maybe, resale value in the future?