Moving from diesel to Electric - weekly long commute

ncc98071

Hi

currently driving BMW 640d , and would travel Sligo to Dublin once per week, 500km return trip. Other journeys typically 50km or under.

will have charging at office mainly, sometimes in airport where I would need to pay for it

any recommendations for cars that might cover range okay?

anyone else doing commute like this in electric car and how does Motorway speeds of 120kmh impact range

budget of around 40-50k max

thanks in advance

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058322486/moving-from-diesel-to-electric-weekly-long-commute

Given your budget, you’re looking at a serious downgrade to a big battery version of something like an EV6, Ioniq, Tesla 3/Y, ID.4/5, Q4 e-Tron or Enyaq. An EV comparable to your 640d like a Taycan or e-Tron GT will set you back €80K. A diesel PHEV such as a Merc E300de might be a good compromise.

...Ghost...

Tesla Model 3 Long Range would just about do it without charging. With charger at destination, the RWD version is cheaper and would cover your needs, as would most other new EVs. With the Tesla, you get the best efficiency and charging options.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058322486/moving-from-diesel-to-electric-weekly-long-commute

I do Dublin to Antrim, Cork and Limerick about once a month each. I have to stop on them all and you will too, no matter what you get. Doing 120kmph for a big portion nothing will get you 500kms. Tesla LR drivers might correct me there but are you getting this range?

There's motorway fast chargers on all my routes and total charging time per return journey is about 20 to 30 mins, always done on the way back to Dublin. I have a destination charger in Antrim I use but not in the others. We will have one in limerick soon too. Not sure about cork.

fits

Best options are Model 3 long range or an Id.3 Tour. Ioniq6 might be an option either.

Efficiency matters for these long trips so avoid the crossovers Id say unless you have a specific need for one.

fits

Oh and make sure whatever you get has decent charging speeds. It will matter if you are doing it weekly. Ideally you’d like to be using the high powered chargers and getting the most from them.

Idbatterim

would it not be better to stick with the 640d? what are the maths on this?

ncc98071

Thanks

Reason for changing is that 640D mileage starting to creep up , plus running costs are quite high - General servicing / consumables and diesel. My thoughts on changing up with not major outlay to electric model would be that it would be cheaper on monthly basis.

BMW i4 may be option but would need to stretch the budget to get into one, expect 62k or there abouts.

No need to SUV/Crossover so happy with Saloon style car.

CivilEx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121365760#Comment_121365760

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121365937#Comment_121365937

I've done the maths on something similar as I'm moving from a 520d MSport that typically does 50mpg to an Ioniq 6 in January (order placed / trade in agreed).

Assuming you do about 26,000km each year (I do in my example), it costs about €2,750 in fuel and €2,250 in servicing costs / tyres, so the total cost of ownership (excluding any car loans / financing) is €5,000 each year.

I won't know exactly how much it will cost to run the Ioniq 6, but I estimate that if 65% of the charging can be done at home and the other 35% is public charging, then the energy costs will be about €1,250 each year (20 kWh/100km average, but I hope to do much better than this). I assume servicing / tyres will be another €1,000 each year, so the total cost of ownership is €2,250 each year.

The difference in cost over a three year ownership cycle is €8,250 [(€5,000 - €2,250)x3] in favor of the Ioniq 6. Even if the cost of servicing / maintenance of the Ioniq 6 was €1,500 rather than €1,000 each year and you factor in the cost of a car charger at home in year 1, I am still more than €6k better off over the 3 year cycle with the BEV.

Irrespective of changing to another diesel or moving to a BEV, there will be a trade in and a cost of finance which will be the same for both a diesel or a BEV in my case. As I'm doing 26,000 km each year, staying with my current car for another three years is a big risk as it's out of warranty and unforeseen issues in a BMW cost a lot to repair in my experience....it can be a big risk when doing that amount of milage.

The maths may be completely different for someone doing 10,000km each year, but for me, I will be far better off financially every month with the Ioniq 6 than the 520d.

ncc98071

Thanks @CivilEx good to see figures , 640d slightly more than 520d for running costs, I have 520d prior to 640d

greyday

Better to keep to 100KPH on motorway so as not to drain battery too fast, from my experience, I was getting the mileage on clock at 100KPH but it changed considerably at 120KPH.

Casati

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121366214#Comment_121366214

Who wants to drive at 20kmph though- maybe somebody with a lot of time but most people doing a long drive weekly value their time. Doing 25000km at 120kmph will take 208 hours, doing it at 100kmph will take 250 hours. That's 40 hours or an entire work week.

greyday

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121366496#Comment_121366496

Driving at 100KPH, the extra 20KPH if you drive at 120KPH has a dramatic effect on battery drain.

If you can charge at home it wont matter if you drive 100KPH or 120KPH if you keep within reasonable range, I think our car would go from 420 per charge to 330 and maybe less per charge due to difference in speed, your 40 hours is less than an hour a week yearly on 25000KM, or about 1 extra minute per every 10KM you travel....not such a burden when you break it down.

Realistically, if you do 25000KM annually, it is not all going to be on a motorway, the 100KPH will be more than enough for all the off motorway driving you do which would likely be a fair chunk of your annual mileage.

Casati

Moving from a 640d you have to decide if you are happy with downgrading to much lower class cars- if you are, a new Ioniq 6 or Tesla Model 3 will be much cheaper to run- in the same way downgrading to a Octavia or Leon diesel will also be substantially cheaper to run too.

If you like the prestige cars would you consider a used Tesla Model S?

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/tesla-model-s-s-75d/34138867

Here is a 2019 for just over 40k. Original Irish car and will have a battery warranty for a good few years. You should see 250km- 300km at motorway speeds even in winter.

Idbatterim

good to see the figures, the other factor is depreciation... one other factor , what is the cost to change going to be, people often think it will be X, go to the garage and are shocked when they find out how much the garage are going to do them...

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121366177#Comment_121366177

Logical step forward and savings likely to increase as diesel prices creep up. Only risk is what way the depreciation may work out on the Ioniq 6 as EV residuals seem to be taking a big hit at the moment.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121365937#Comment_121365937

You’ll have very limited choices in a saloon style EV. The majority of offerings in recent years are small SUV’s.

CivilEx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121367288#Comment_121367288

That's a fair point, and who knows with a new model in the market such as the Ioniq 6.

To broaden it out though, the current depreciation on ICE cars doesn't get a lot of coverage in this EV forum (rightly so), but in my (very limited) recent experience of trying to get the possible deal for my 520D trade in, bigger / premium diesel cars are also taking a big hit at the moment. Perhaps the hit is marginally different to EV's but it is there.

Current EV owners likely feel like they are taking a lot of pain in trading up, but ICE owners are feeling it too.

fits

The ID.7 would probably be ideal for OP and going on sale soon. Probably over budget though. Big battery version might do that trip without a charge

the BYD Seal is another saloon option.

ncc98071

Thanks for all the advise folks, it would be great to hear from Tesla Model 3 LR owner what they get on motorway drives typically

will need to consider drop down from 6 Series to Tesla etc or hold out until premium model price comes down further

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121368769#Comment_121368769

EV database is good for getting an idea of real range. Worst case is winter freezing conditions, head wind, going top motorway speed. Best case is hot summer, no head wind low speed urban driving.

On shorter trips you can drive like you stole it, but on trips beyond home charger range it can be worth while reducing top speed slightly as it may avoid having to stop to charge at all. Total time from A to B may be less if you can avoid an optional charging stop. Public chargers can be busy blocked or broken and expensive so it makes sense to grab some extra range if you can. On really long trips you want to stop anyway so align the stop with charging. Definitely the fuel savings can add up but beware regularly public charging can be a pain as there is not enough chargers on many routes so expect delays at peak times. Many chargers out there are not the fastest types and many cars cannot charge as fast as they claim on the brochure so 45 minute stops may be a reality.

sh81722

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121385500#Comment_121385500

The worst winter range at 120 km/h real speed on our 2021 LR seems to be about 350 km. In summer it's 50 km more. And if there are superchargers on the route it's always quickest to drive fast and charge when needed, initiated at a low state of charge, as you get and equivalent of 1000 km/h charging speed at the low SOC. Some of the locations like Belfast and Athenry add considerable overhead as they are so far from the motorway so you waste some time. But 200 km driven at 120 km/h vs 100 km/h saves about 20 minutes driving time so charging for 10 minutes to reach the destination still pays.

innrain

Usually long-ish drives with the family are a bit more relaxing these days, but yesterday it was an exception due to some double booking we had to be at a feis in Dublin but also in Belfast at some other event. I resort to old Google timeline as it is quite good in remembering times. ModelY RWD, started with 98% from Scientology place in Firhouse and drove directly to SSE arena joining the queue for the carpark few minutes before what Google predicted. As a reference, I passed NorthCity Ionity at 86%, Tesla Supercharger at 70% and got at SSE with 42%. Worth mentioning I missed the ramp towards the venue so had to loop back from M2 docks. Sentry, preconditioning and 40 mins waiting to get out of the carpark saw us starting the return leg with 38% and got to the supercharger at Castlebellingham with 2%. Google says we stayed there 8 mins, I didn't really timed it but it felt a bit longer, towards 15-20 mins. Got home 2 mins before midnight with 25% left. This morning did the school run, came to work, driving another 50 km and still have 11% left in the battery. Again preconditioning and all that. I meant to charge at work but I was distracted by a phone conversation and parked up.

Now, if one doesn't normally stop 10-15 mins in 450km journeys I'd say stick to diesel. I have nearly 5 years since I drive only electric, totaling 140,000 km so far and the cherry on top I don't have a home charger.

Could someone be faster? Possibly, although especially on the leg back not many cars overtook me. The roads in the NI were pretty dark and lots of cars were driving below the speed limit. I don't slow down for consumption reasons and where possibly I use ACC or autopilot. AC is normally set at 21 but midway I lowered it to 20 as the kids were complaining it is too warm. I could calculate how much it costed me but considering the money spent on feis or Disney paraphernalia, the fuel was the cheapest thing yesterday. The long trip counter represents this whole trip, and based on the 72kWh used up, I think a M3LR could do the trip without a stop. Could the same experience be replicated in a non-Tesla car? As I also have a non Tesla EV I have to say, in Ireland not quite, but things have improved and will still improve.

Casati

Would you not be a bit worried running it down to 2% on the motorway? Eg if you missed that exit or that particular charging station was broken whatever reason wouldn’t you be snookered?

I don’t get the comment re not stopping in a 4.5hr journey - your example shows that were forced to stop after maybe an hour into your return journey. Presumably you stopped already in Belfast for a few hours?

Redfox25

With a Tesla, if the car says you will get home at 2%, then you will. If something changes en route to delay you, the car will warn you to reduce speed or go get a charge.

I don't believe other cars are as accurate in their guessometer to get you home.

sh81722

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121392148#Comment_121392148

On Teslas there is also some undocumented range available below 0% although I have never gotten to check this out.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121392093#Comment_121392093

In a Tesla the car will show you on the in car display how many Superchargers are A. at the site you are navigating to and B. how many of them are available to use, and as there are 8 stall's at the site OP was navigating to, the thought of some being out of order never really occurs..

It will also predict your arrival SoC% about as accurate as anything out there... Last summer I was a few km away from a Supercharger on the Autobahn and the car predicted I'd arrive at 6%, so when I increased speed from about 140km/h to close to 200km/h the car then predicted an arrival of 2% and it was spot on.

Casati

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121392314#Comment_121392314

I get the car calculates it very effectively, but even Tesla can’t predict say an exit road being blocked by a Garda temporarily, a ‘fender bender’ ahead of you on, freak hail storm or a driver simply missing a turn-off- like you admitted you did at your destination. I dunno but I couldn’t imagine risking running it down to such tiny range

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121392093#Comment_121392093

No I wasn't a bit worried. And here comes my comment ref a non-Tesla. With the Kona I would have been worried and most likely charged when at 10-20%. Initially it told me I would get there with 4% but I increased the speed instead of reducing it. If I would have been worried I would have charged in Belfast.

In my example I stopped for 3 hours at the event but didn't charge. If anything I lost 5% due to sentry, precond and climate use. Is like one would have kept driving. The whole inconvenience of 400 km driving was to stop once for 15 mins. My comment was if that's to much for you then stick to diesel.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121392849#Comment_121392849

the same would be true for an ICE so not really an EV related issue. There is live traffic updates so a road closure would have been covered. A fender bender would not change anything sentry doesn't work below 20%. As said above there is about 40 km or normal driving below zero. Missing the exit is quite hard when is just one not a busy motorway junction with signs bit cryptic

ncc98071

thanks for all the info everyone, much appreciated. Probably stay as I am until the new year and see what happens with prices in the new year

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121393620#Comment_121393620

Go take the Byd Seal for a test drive. Bookings are open.