Entitlement to a bedroom in co-owned home

onaplane

Long story short, after the marriage breakdown, I respectfully started sleeping in the living room, and I've been there for nearly 2 years, no separation or divorce proceedings have started yet, but I'm being called selfish for not moving out completely.

Do I have the right to sleep in a bedroom in a house I co-own with my partner. It's a 3 bed house, each child (2,) has their own room. Obviously my partner won't allow this or me to move back to the main bedroom.

So my question is, do I have a right to a bedroom and is there anyone I can contact that will confirm this or back it up so I can present my spouse with this info.

As a side note, it's not doing me any good mentally or physically to be sleeping in the living room which my spouse is now calling "my dwelling", though I imagine it'll be used against me that the home isn't fully functional etc...

Thanks in advance.

Dumb Juan

Hi,

Sorry to hear about your sleeping arrangements, I honestly believe you need to get a solicitor or contact FLAC, two years is too long to be in limbo where you are unable to plan for your own future or restart your life.

Dial Hard

Of course you have a right to a bedroom in your own house - whose rights exactly does she think would trump this? Your children??? They have no right to a room each. In fact I would say forcing you to take over the living room as your bedroom is far more disruptive to general family life than your kids having to share again for a while. I didn't get my own room til I was 16.

It's been almost two years, you need to start making this official. Go and see a solicitor.

thegame983

Tell her she's had her time in the main bedroom now it's her turn to sleep on the couch for 2 years.

CatLick

She has no right to kick you out of the house or make you sleep on a couch. There is no barring order against you. Having said that this state of affairs is not healthy for anyone least of all you. The atmosphere in the house must be awful. Is it possible to rent a place nearby?

Dr Turk Turkelton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363940#Comment_121363940

Why would you assume his wife would be happy to rent nearby?

She has the same rights to the house as he has. I'm sure she would take her turn sleeping in the living room before renting.

CatLick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363974#Comment_121363974

That's not what I said. It's irrelevant who moves out but it doesn't sound like both can stay

onaplane

Thanks for the replies so far folks,

No, the atomphere isn't great, and there's a lot to be told about that, from both sides.

I'm NOT leaving my home that I've paid for alone, done all the DIY in, what I had to go through to get that house, raised a family there, devoted my life the last 18 years there. I'm a good person, but I'm not being treated well and I'm sick of feeling isolated and somewhat without any structure at all, I work from home too and I've a chronic pain condition so I'm at wits end.

Shes taken everything sentimental from the living room, there's so little info online I had to ask here for your thoughts. And where to go for help. Obviously she's comfy in the ensuite bedroom. I don't really want to disrupt the kids, but I can't afford to move out and two years in the living room, brushing my teeth in the downstairs bathroom, I'm getting peed off at this stage and looking for options. It's my house as well. I need a bedroom.

Ps.. she works, but in no way has it even entered her mind that shed have to leave, she's banking on the primary caregiver thing and that I'll be fucked out of the house.

As I said, at wits end and just want a bed. Maybe FLAC or a solicitor, just want something to present to her and say this is how it is, I have rights in my own home.

onaplane

Basically, she's said the living room is my dwelling, and she's not moving the kids. I can suffer for the sake of a set of bunk beds.

Dial Hard

Genuine question, why do you both seem to think it's her way or the highway?

How old are the kids?

onaplane

Kids are 15 and 18.. both boys

Why is it her way, cause she's taking control of the situation, she's the caregiver and playing the woman card, calling the rules etc... I still love her, and being a man it's not easy.

onaplane

I know i have rights, I just need a legal way to show her that it's not her way or nothing

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121364153#Comment_121364153

Flip the roles - ask her to provide you with legal proof that you don't have a right to a bedroom in your own home. Two can play at that game.

You need to assume some agency in this situation, OP. I'm not saying to be antagonistic, or engage in tit-for-tat nonsense by any means. But being passive will only get you walked all over, as you seem to be realising.

I'm a woman, btw. And I walked away from my marital home, all the possessions, pension entitlements, the works. Don't assume that these things always only go one way.

Ezeoul

I don't think there is anything in law that says you have a right to occupy a bedroom, but I also don't think there is anything in law to state that you don't.

Sleeping arrangements is not something I've ever heard a judge making a ruling on either. That would normally come under "sort it out between you." But no harm to ask on "Legal Discussions" forum.

One thing though, after two years, you need to start formalising this separation. This situation dragging on is no good for any of you.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121366396#Comment_121366396

Exactly. Generally Irish law operates on the basis that unless something is specifically legislated against, it's perfectly legal.

tjhook

I know the relationship has broken down, but you could ask your partner whether she'd prefer that you buy a bed and turn the living room into a proper bedroom, or shuffle the existing sleeping arrangements so you get to sleep in an existing bedroom. I imagine either outcome would be better than the current situation.

Marriage breakdown is unpleasant, it's wrong that you would be the only one affected.

Madd002

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121364144#Comment_121364144

How's your relationship with your boys, their old enough to understand what's going on, could you chat to them and say lads would ye mind if I done the odd night in one of your beds as my back is killing me, I'm sure one night each would help seeing as your wife won't give up marital room. Sorry your going through this I hope all works out for you and this is coming from a woman, if it was a man treating a women like she has been treating you it wouldn't have lasted 2 days let alone 2 yrs..!!

road_high

Glad you came here for advice as it’s time to stop being pounded into the ground by this self entitled cow and sticK up for yourself. The kids are old enough also for reality checks- needing their own rooms at 15 and 18? Ah sure god love them - you work your arse off providing for all three and either get turfed out or set up in the living room. Time for a major reality check for all tbh

onaplane

Yes, I'm living a hell, I don't know this woman anymore, i don't understand what she's become, it's like I'm an enemy, I have my own health issues, and I have to deal with this alone, as well as losimg everything that was dear to me, and my entire life.

I have been to soul Nua and the men's aid group in phibsborough, probably need to go again.. she's walking all over me with the threat of being a woman... End of... I just don't know what to do or the outcome... I don't want to be alone, that's my greatest fear.. my eldest is with me, he's 18 and see everything going on, the youngest is 14 and won't spend any time with me, he's stone walling me, like his mother, and I only took him to Disney a few months ago, and he had the time of his life.

I just don't know what to do, I feel helpless.

road_high

I’d say try put the emotion to one side and focus on the legal aspects- get good legal advice and go from there. It’s long past time this one’s free ride ended.

Teens are often ungrateful little shites- you took him to Disneyland (which probably cost you €1000s to earn while in your own pain issues) and he’s stonewalling you? Learned primadona behaviour he’s copped from you know who. Time this nonsense ended

GalwayGaillimh

As world's first billionaire Getty said if you want to find out what a woman is really like... Divorce her :-)

I have a male relative who was hounded so badly by his ex wife that he ended up leaving the country for his own safety. She didn’t work, he was the earner, held him at knifepoint when he tried to discuss cutting down on major clothes spending in order to repay the mortgage in timely fashion. She poisoned the children against him too.

iniscealtra

Turn the sitting room into your bedroom. Buy a bed. Move out the couch. Make the room your own and comfortable.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121369813#Comment_121369813

Applying for a protection order should only be advised when there is violence or a threat of violence.

The OP has made no mention of either, or of "being in fear" of her.

If it's not okay for women to abuse the process to obtain fraudulent Protection Orders, it's not okay for men to do it either.

Very hypocritial to advise the OP of this kind of action when you complain so vocally about women who abuse the legal process.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121369949#Comment_121369949

At least change the sofa into a convertible-to-bed one, if not done already. Pity if the design doesn’t match the decor or isn’t liked by the missus.

maninasia

Why can't you ask the kids to share a room , everybody needs to give and take.

Danny healy ray

and then if you move out the cost of rent is out of control altogether even if you can get something

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121370022#Comment_121370022

Cost an absolute fortune and that’s if you can even get a place that’s not a complete dump. And that’s exactly what Lady Muck would want- absolutely do not do this under any circumstances OP- hold the line and explore and start the legalities with this one.

You say you “love her”- so much to unpack I think here and perhaps some counselling therapy would really help you get some clarity on the emotional side also? And also build back up your own confidence and strength as you sound like a great guy with lots of solid qualities

notAMember

OP, to answer your question, I think it's a simple No, no-one has the "right" to a bedroom in a co-owned home, this is at the discretion of the adults living in the house to sort out.

I think it is in your interest to sort it out. You seem to have money available, as you are spending on things like disneyland. So you need to decide and plan. Either to separate and dissolve assets (sell the house entirely and buy two smaller homes for example), or buy the furniture you need, in the room you choose to be your bedroom, so you can live in it comfortably. Or get a portacabin or modular building in the garden if you have some space there.

I wouldn't remain emotionally attached to the physical house, especially if it's causing you stress. It's just bricks and mortar, so what if you did DIY on it... The good memories you have there are the important piece, not the physical concrete. You need some basics to get back on track, a place to sleep, a place to work etc.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121369854#Comment_121369854

"An ungrateful little shite" or a young teen who is caught in between two parents in an escalating war with each other, and who doesn't have the tools or maturity to deal with what is happening in his home, so retreats into avoidance so he isn't dragged into the conflict or asked to "pick sides"?

Kids are not stupid, nor are they un-effected by marital breakdown.

onaplane

It's not as simple as just selling the house and buying two smaller ones, there would not be enough equity to do that, plus she won't agree to sell, stability for the kids until they are finished education, plus we bought the house on the affordable housing scheme and still have 4 years of the clawback to go. My youngest would be 18 by then so it would be a possibility then.

In regards to having loads of money cause I brought my son on a bonding trip to Disney, yes, it cost a lot, but I saved hard to make that happen.

I guess the best thing to do is just repurpose the living room into my bedroom. There's another room with a TV and sofa so it's not like the kids/wife can't have anywhere to hang out downstairs.

I know she's got a letter from the legal aid board so probably waiting for an appointment then she'll start proceedings and I'd say she's banking on being the caregiver and remaining in the house until the kids are finished 3rd level education and me being told to leave my home, I'll be forced to rent god knows where and god knows how much for 9 years until I can then push the sake of the home. Right now, herself only went back to work 10 months ago, after not working for 18 years. 2 months into her work, she decided she could be independent and that's when she said it was over.

I've been to a solicitor and they told me that with the kids as old as they are now, the most likely outcome is that the judge will force the sale of the house. I'm not convinced though.

Yes, it's just bricks and mortar, but I don't want to renting a small room in a house with other people I don't know, or in a studio miles from my kids paying through the nose for it. I do want to live in the same house as my kids.

My youngest is certainly copying his mother, with stonewalling, which I wouldn't wish on anyone, it really is mental torture.

My eldest who's 18 is seeing what's happening to me and not to say he on my side, but he's good with me and I do a lot for him.

I work remotely due to my condition, and need a private internet connection as well.

Ah, it's just a big mess that I wish wasn't happening.

iniscealtra

You’re thinking positively now. Repurposing the room into a proper comfortable room for yourself is a good plan. Then ask for the house to be sold and wait for it be sold however long that takes. In the meantime get on with building a life for yourself and building a relationship with your kids. Good luck OP.

road_high

Not sure how far the legal caregiver thing would get her seem as she clearly isn’t the primary caregiver as you still live there and you share that responsibility. They’re also heading into young adulthood. I moved out at 18 myself to go to college.

Try not be defeatist- exactly what she wants is to wear you down mentally so you’ll leave and she can have possession of the house (which you indicated you mostly paid for) hassle free. Don’t make it that easy for her.

As for the primadonna routine from the younger lad I’d have a very low tolerance for that given all you provide. Teens can be ungrateful but there’s no need for disrespect to a parent like this

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363884#Comment_121363884

Or hop into the bed beside her, after putting a plank down the middle of it.

mrcheez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363884#Comment_121363884

Not on topic, but interesting how everyone read this as the partner being female. Which was proven correct.

I wonder would a husband in this situation do the same thing and call the other "selfish for not moving out"

Ezeoul

 Right now, herself only went back to work 10 months ago, after not working for 18 years. 2 months into her work, she decided she could be independent and that's when she said it was over.

Being the parent who stays at home to raise children does not equal to "not working" and you "paying for everything". Anyone who thinks this in this day and age, needs to give their head a wobble, and check out how much it would cost to hire a full time housekeeper and childminder in the home.

Your wife obviously has put a plan in place for herself. She has gone back to work, setting herself up when the time comes when you are physically separated - but you should see this as a good thing for you, as it means you won't be liable for spousal maintenance when the time comes. So see that as a plus. Also as legal proceedings haven't even begun yet, by the time you get a court date she will be able to apply for a mortgage in her own name.

There's another room with a TV and sofa so it's not like the kids/wife can't have anywhere to hang out downstairs.

Ok, could you leave the living room as it is, and repurpose this room into a bedroom for yourself?

onaplane

I certainly didn't mean it wasn't work , we both had our roles, and undoubtedly raising children is a job. You are correct about her setting herself up. Just wanted to clarify I wasnt saying she was doing nothing, it's just a kick in the teeth that's all.

No, the other room is open plan with the kitchen.

Thanks for all the replies and opinions to everyone that's commented. If you've all been here you'll know how much of a struggle it is :)

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372864#Comment_121372864

Okay, then if there is an open plan room with sofa and tv etc, then you should definitely proceed with converting the living room into a comfortable space for yourself.

You don't need anyone's permission, just go ahead and do it.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372325#Comment_121372325

As long as you do not leave the house and she fails to get a barring order the judge will probably order a house sale. If one of you can finance it you can buy the other party out.

The best advice any male can get is in a separation situation do not leave the house

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121369949#Comment_121369949

This, looks like you're working from here as well. So set it up to suit your needs both sleeping and workwise. Might be better than getting children to share as then you'll have a bedroom but maybe a less comfortable place to work.

Beware of posters here with axes to grind. Everyone is different, so find a way to make it work till some more permanent arrangement can be made.

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372970#Comment_121372970

I agree with this. Which is likely why she is making it so uncomfortable for the OP to crack him so he’ll leave- don’t give in.

She needs to learn it’s not all win-win in a break up scenario

Completely left field but could you finance something like this and have it fit in to your back garden, you would be there but separated and have you own space with your own bathroom for the moment at least until the children grow up, when the house will have to be sold.

Its a horrible situation for your children don't use one of them as an emotional crutch its very unfair to them.

https://www.thepodfactory.ie/gallery/

road_high

Could work in her favour though too? The devoted mother spiel who sacrificed her career and earnings all for her sons.

My own uncle was married to one of these lazy nightmares. She did get the house in the end but in his circumstances I think it was a price worth paying to be rid of her

amdublin

Are you sleeping on a sofa or a proper bed?

At a minimum I would be putting a bed in the living room and turning it in to your proper bedroom

onaplane

After 2 years I've just got a camp bed and recently bought a cheap mattress, I'm starting to repurpose the room to be as much of a "bedsit" as possible.

Yesterday I discovered that she had put a bolt lock on the outside of the master bedroom door, denying me access to the shower and room, is this legal? Any clue anyone? We are not legally separated or divorced, but living seperate in the same home.

Tefral

Man, you need to get legally seperated, you also need to get legal advice. In these situations you can be the hunter or the hunted. You need to choose which one you are happy with. (Ps. Its not a hard choice) its over, you need to protect yourself and your mental health, you can do this by taking back control of things you have control over.

For what its worth, I genuinely feel for you, but theres only so long you can wallow in your situation. Time to Stand up.

Private Joker

I absolutely feel so sorry for your situation. It's bloody horrible what you are going through.

You've had some really good advice here. Its time to take back control of your life, remove all emotion from the situation.

Make a comfortable retreat for yourself in the living room withg a proper bed. Keep yourself active, gather positive people around you, reach out to friends you've lost touch with. Your youngest will evenutally see things clearer.

Both of you should go to mediation, which should lay out a few boundaries in the household. you are entitled to feel safe, secure and comforable in your own home.

Have a positive mental attitude about it, i know that's easier said than done

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883282#Comment_121883282

Why didn't you take one of the other bedrooms like you were advised? You essentially turning the living room into a bedsit seems like quite a passive-aggressive move and I'm not sure either you or your wife are giving any consideration as to how this situation is potentially affecting your sons.

Seriously, dude, I'll repeat what I said when you first posted - get yourself a solicitor ASAP. This situation was always going to devolve into increasingly petty points-scoring against eachother and that's literally how that's playing out. She puts a lock on the bedroom door, you react by making the living room essentially hostile territory. You both need to cop yourselves on and start behaving like adults. You're setting a terrible example for your sons, and what exactly is the endgame here? You both try and wait the other out??? That's not going to happen, so deal with it.

onaplane

I understand where you are coming from, however.

I asked/tried to discuss moving the kids into the large bedroom and was told no, she won't disturb the kids.

I asked to eat with them 2/3 times a week, she said no, she wouldn't give up that time she spends with them. I cookdr Xmas dinner every year for the 19/20 with been together, this year I was shunned and had to eat alone. I was quite funny, regardless of the money I give her for kids food, on Xmas morning she told me not to use some of the oil to cook some sausages 😅,

It's like I've been kicked out of the family I gave and planned my life with. I'm at my wits end and having a lot of low times, so I'm struggling but working on it. I'm sure anyone who has been here will understand the emotional pain.

I have been to a solicitor and they told me that there are no restrictions on a room that I can enter, as I own the house and neither of us can deny access to any part of the house from each other, unless you're getting dressed, sleeping etc..

The reason I'm repurposing the room, is because I can't live in the space as I am anymore, I'm sure that's understandable. I don't want to disrupt the kids either and it suits me, though everyone has told me, they are both older boys, people do this all the time. I know that.

I'm well aware of the effect this will have on our children in later life, I can't control it sadly, the older lad sees what's going on, the younger guy, he won't speak to me, it's like he's her only friend and she's using him against me, as well as parental alienation, signing legal documents for him without my consent (control issue)

Sadly, I can't mediate with her on our living situation or the future of the home, she is banking on a judge making me homeless because she's the primary caretaker (by force) , the solicitor has told me this won't happen, as have others in the same boat,

Regardless of the 17 years she didn't work, all of a sudden she has a job, a did a diploma, yet she's not trying to increase her wage by applying for a higher paid job in this new field and keeping it low on purpose), she won't drive but has the money for a care, the list goes on.

In no way have i been an angel, but I do believe I don't deserve this, at this stage I'd be happy to take my share of the house and start again, kids always welcome. Her, I don't know her anymore or what she's become, the language used is abhorrent, vindictive and intentional.

We bought the house on the affordable housing scheme 16 years ago, so just another 4 years to go without paying back anything to the council, I'm not made of money and certainly could afford to rent and pay bills and maintenance while I wait out years for the house to be sold. So, yes, I need to make this room a bedsit (nearly done), there's another room as a living room so they are not denied of a downstairs living space.

My question a few posts ago was the legality of putting a bolt lock on the outside of the door, which is escalating the situation for everyone and the kids. The electric shower and some if my possessions are in there.

Anyway, if you made it this far, that's the gist of it, it's not as easy as you may think to act amicable when one person isn't playing ball.

I leave it here for now.

road_high

Have you gotten legal advice? I don’t believe you’re going to achieve anything by talking to this person directly like an adult. That time is gone. The three of them are taking the piss- you are the only one actually earning but you are dumped in the living room. Get a grip. Having own bedrooms is a total luxury . I never had my own room until I went to college and some of the years I had to share with a friend

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121905392#Comment_121905392

^^ This.