Entitlement to a bedroom in co-owned home

onaplane

Long story short, after the marriage breakdown, I respectfully started sleeping in the living room, and I've been there for nearly 2 years, no separation or divorce proceedings have started yet, but I'm being called selfish for not moving out completely.

Do I have the right to sleep in a bedroom in a house I co-own with my partner. It's a 3 bed house, each child (2,) has their own room. Obviously my partner won't allow this or me to move back to the main bedroom.

So my question is, do I have a right to a bedroom and is there anyone I can contact that will confirm this or back it up so I can present my spouse with this info.

As a side note, it's not doing me any good mentally or physically to be sleeping in the living room which my spouse is now calling "my dwelling", though I imagine it'll be used against me that the home isn't fully functional etc...

Thanks in advance.

Dumb Juan

Hi,

Sorry to hear about your sleeping arrangements, I honestly believe you need to get a solicitor or contact FLAC, two years is too long to be in limbo where you are unable to plan for your own future or restart your life.

Dial Hard

Of course you have a right to a bedroom in your own house - whose rights exactly does she think would trump this? Your children??? They have no right to a room each. In fact I would say forcing you to take over the living room as your bedroom is far more disruptive to general family life than your kids having to share again for a while. I didn't get my own room til I was 16.

It's been almost two years, you need to start making this official. Go and see a solicitor.

thegame983

Tell her she's had her time in the main bedroom now it's her turn to sleep on the couch for 2 years.

CatLick

She has no right to kick you out of the house or make you sleep on a couch. There is no barring order against you. Having said that this state of affairs is not healthy for anyone least of all you. The atmosphere in the house must be awful. Is it possible to rent a place nearby?

Dr Turk Turkelton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363940#Comment_121363940

Why would you assume his wife would be happy to rent nearby?

She has the same rights to the house as he has. I'm sure she would take her turn sleeping in the living room before renting.

CatLick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363974#Comment_121363974

That's not what I said. It's irrelevant who moves out but it doesn't sound like both can stay

onaplane

Thanks for the replies so far folks,

No, the atomphere isn't great, and there's a lot to be told about that, from both sides.

I'm NOT leaving my home that I've paid for alone, done all the DIY in, what I had to go through to get that house, raised a family there, devoted my life the last 18 years there. I'm a good person, but I'm not being treated well and I'm sick of feeling isolated and somewhat without any structure at all, I work from home too and I've a chronic pain condition so I'm at wits end.

Shes taken everything sentimental from the living room, there's so little info online I had to ask here for your thoughts. And where to go for help. Obviously she's comfy in the ensuite bedroom. I don't really want to disrupt the kids, but I can't afford to move out and two years in the living room, brushing my teeth in the downstairs bathroom, I'm getting peed off at this stage and looking for options. It's my house as well. I need a bedroom.

Ps.. she works, but in no way has it even entered her mind that shed have to leave, she's banking on the primary caregiver thing and that I'll be fucked out of the house.

As I said, at wits end and just want a bed. Maybe FLAC or a solicitor, just want something to present to her and say this is how it is, I have rights in my own home.

onaplane

Basically, she's said the living room is my dwelling, and she's not moving the kids. I can suffer for the sake of a set of bunk beds.

Dial Hard

Genuine question, why do you both seem to think it's her way or the highway?

How old are the kids?

onaplane

Kids are 15 and 18.. both boys

Why is it her way, cause she's taking control of the situation, she's the caregiver and playing the woman card, calling the rules etc... I still love her, and being a man it's not easy.

onaplane

I know i have rights, I just need a legal way to show her that it's not her way or nothing

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121364153#Comment_121364153

Flip the roles - ask her to provide you with legal proof that you don't have a right to a bedroom in your own home. Two can play at that game.

You need to assume some agency in this situation, OP. I'm not saying to be antagonistic, or engage in tit-for-tat nonsense by any means. But being passive will only get you walked all over, as you seem to be realising.

I'm a woman, btw. And I walked away from my marital home, all the possessions, pension entitlements, the works. Don't assume that these things always only go one way.

Ezeoul

I don't think there is anything in law that says you have a right to occupy a bedroom, but I also don't think there is anything in law to state that you don't.

Sleeping arrangements is not something I've ever heard a judge making a ruling on either. That would normally come under "sort it out between you." But no harm to ask on "Legal Discussions" forum.

One thing though, after two years, you need to start formalising this separation. This situation dragging on is no good for any of you.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121366396#Comment_121366396

Exactly. Generally Irish law operates on the basis that unless something is specifically legislated against, it's perfectly legal.

tjhook

I know the relationship has broken down, but you could ask your partner whether she'd prefer that you buy a bed and turn the living room into a proper bedroom, or shuffle the existing sleeping arrangements so you get to sleep in an existing bedroom. I imagine either outcome would be better than the current situation.

Marriage breakdown is unpleasant, it's wrong that you would be the only one affected.

thatshowthelightgetsin

You're doing so much absolutely wrong here, op, I'm actually worried you will become yet another bedsit father living the hell of parental alienation and contributing to the highest suicide demograph in Irish society (males in their 40s and 50s).

Most outstanding, what planet are you on by not initiating the legal case and you two years into this? I mean, words fail me! You need help to get your confidence up here! Fight back!

Christ almighty, push back now! It is your home, they are your children as much as they are hers. Stop listening to ignorant shítehawks going on about the women having superior rights. They don't. What they have is an infinitely superior sense of entitlement. No doubt about that - the words "my house" and "my children" are par for the course. Entitlement is the outstanding characteristic of women in all contested divorces. It's their oxygen.

Don't let them terrorise you. They're bullies, depending on gender discrimination and nothing else. Dismiss it, keep calm and push the legal case forward. Do not make the mistake of looking for the rationality. "If she controls the kids, she controls the house" is the long and the short of the "strategy" and you'll be "so mean" to look for crazy things like... 50:50. It's nuts, if you think rationally. Expect the curve ball, not the rational ball! And it has been my female friends who keep telling me this, and variants on it.

Oh, and don't be afraid to go to court. Aim for it. Let your ex demonise you, let people talk, let everything you cannot control continue. You control you, and just focus on ensuring your equal rights to parent your own children and have your own home are made a reality. You should be spending at least 50% of the time with the kids. If not, why not? Push back!

You need to fight so much harder as a father to get this basic right. There are a lot of fathers going through this Hell now and you'll often feel like a black man in front of an all-white jury in Alabama in 1950 as you have to keep proving you're "respectable" and a "good father" and all the other dehumanising stuff groups facing prejudice must endure. And just switch off the incessant "poor women" victimhood mythmaking stuff on RTÉ and The Irish Times when the Sisterhood have the guys faoi chois in the family law courts and prejudices of this State every day of the week. Galling irony. On a deadly serious point, you need to be prepared for a false allegation as her tactic to remove you from your family home. It's as sure as night follows day, and then the hell follows. Ensure you have your private health insurance paid as you could well need all 90 days cover for mental health issues once she kicks off with the false allegations.

You need to talk to some of the many men who are going through the incredible hell of false allegations and all the rest. You will find them in the peer support meetings in Men's Aid (https://www.mensaid.ie/contact-us/), in Talk2Us (https://www.talk2us.ie/) (meets in Phibsboro), in Saol Nua (https://www.meetup.com/saol-nua-dublin-support-group-for-separated-divorced-people/) (meets in Stillorgan, Rathcoole, etc).

Contact all of the above now, attend their meetings. You will see you're not alone and you will get a whole load of advice and experience about rights, good family law solicitors, etc. The Men's Aid meetings are especially emotional as you'll realise in confidence that you're not alone and that it isn't you....There is support, empathy, wisdom out here in all the groups. Speak out. Tell people what's happening. Don't be ashamed. Talk!

thatshowthelightgetsin

You could always just move her stuff out of your bedroom and your stuff in and that would soften her cough. Put/change the lock as you're obviously in fear of her.

Nothing illegal there. Tell her she can move back after whatever number of days have passed that you were forced to live in the sittingroom. Then apply for a protection order and at your safety order hearing explain to the judge what Lady Muck is up to.

https://services.courts.ie/Family-Law/domestic-violence/understanding-court-orders-and-eligibility/what-is-a-protection-order

Madd002

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121364144#Comment_121364144

How's your relationship with your boys, their old enough to understand what's going on, could you chat to them and say lads would ye mind if I done the odd night in one of your beds as my back is killing me, I'm sure one night each would help seeing as your wife won't give up marital room. Sorry your going through this I hope all works out for you and this is coming from a woman, if it was a man treating a women like she has been treating you it wouldn't have lasted 2 days let alone 2 yrs..!!

road_high

Glad you came here for advice as it’s time to stop being pounded into the ground by this self entitled cow and sticK up for yourself. The kids are old enough also for reality checks- needing their own rooms at 15 and 18? Ah sure god love them - you work your arse off providing for all three and either get turfed out or set up in the living room. Time for a major reality check for all tbh

onaplane

Yes, I'm living a hell, I don't know this woman anymore, i don't understand what she's become, it's like I'm an enemy, I have my own health issues, and I have to deal with this alone, as well as losimg everything that was dear to me, and my entire life.

I have been to soul Nua and the men's aid group in phibsborough, probably need to go again.. she's walking all over me with the threat of being a woman... End of... I just don't know what to do or the outcome... I don't want to be alone, that's my greatest fear.. my eldest is with me, he's 18 and see everything going on, the youngest is 14 and won't spend any time with me, he's stone walling me, like his mother, and I only took him to Disney a few months ago, and he had the time of his life.

I just don't know what to do, I feel helpless.

road_high

I’d say try put the emotion to one side and focus on the legal aspects- get good legal advice and go from there. It’s long past time this one’s free ride ended.

Teens are often ungrateful little shites- you took him to Disneyland (which probably cost you €1000s to earn while in your own pain issues) and he’s stonewalling you? Learned primadona behaviour he’s copped from you know who. Time this nonsense ended

GalwayGaillimh

As world's first billionaire Getty said if you want to find out what a woman is really like... Divorce her :-)

I have a male relative who was hounded so badly by his ex wife that he ended up leaving the country for his own safety. She didn’t work, he was the earner, held him at knifepoint when he tried to discuss cutting down on major clothes spending in order to repay the mortgage in timely fashion. She poisoned the children against him too.

iniscealtra

Turn the sitting room into your bedroom. Buy a bed. Move out the couch. Make the room your own and comfortable.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121369813#Comment_121369813

Applying for a protection order should only be advised when there is violence or a threat of violence.

The OP has made no mention of either, or of "being in fear" of her.

If it's not okay for women to abuse the process to obtain fraudulent Protection Orders, it's not okay for men to do it either.

Very hypocritial to advise the OP of this kind of action when you complain so vocally about women who abuse the legal process.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121369949#Comment_121369949

At least change the sofa into a convertible-to-bed one, if not done already. Pity if the design doesn’t match the decor or isn’t liked by the missus.

maninasia

Why can't you ask the kids to share a room , everybody needs to give and take.

Danny healy ray

and then if you move out the cost of rent is out of control altogether even if you can get something

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121370022#Comment_121370022

Cost an absolute fortune and that’s if you can even get a place that’s not a complete dump. And that’s exactly what Lady Muck would want- absolutely do not do this under any circumstances OP- hold the line and explore and start the legalities with this one.

You say you “love her”- so much to unpack I think here and perhaps some counselling therapy would really help you get some clarity on the emotional side also? And also build back up your own confidence and strength as you sound like a great guy with lots of solid qualities

notAMember

OP, to answer your question, I think it's a simple No, no-one has the "right" to a bedroom in a co-owned home, this is at the discretion of the adults living in the house to sort out.

I think it is in your interest to sort it out. You seem to have money available, as you are spending on things like disneyland. So you need to decide and plan. Either to separate and dissolve assets (sell the house entirely and buy two smaller homes for example), or buy the furniture you need, in the room you choose to be your bedroom, so you can live in it comfortably. Or get a portacabin or modular building in the garden if you have some space there.

I wouldn't remain emotionally attached to the physical house, especially if it's causing you stress. It's just bricks and mortar, so what if you did DIY on it... The good memories you have there are the important piece, not the physical concrete. You need some basics to get back on track, a place to sleep, a place to work etc.