Becoming a Landlord?

DubCount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121385102#Comment_121385102

Not as bad as some.

RobbieV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121385199#Comment_121385199

Why are you telling people not to become landlords?

Can you expand and maybe give your reasons. It's a little vague

DubCount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121385314#Comment_121385314

On an overall basis, I just dont think residential property investment is a good option at the moment. I'm sure there are more reasons, but this is my list:

1) Returns are restricted by RPZ legislation. As time goes by, a LL in a RPZ cannot increase rent to keep pace with rising costs (higher interest rates, general inflation, costs of repairs etc.)

2) Moves towards "indefinite tenancies" makes could make it impossible to liquidate the investment, even if you want to/need to. See SF manifesto.

3) Protection of tenants in situ means you can end up taking 2 years to evict a non-paying tenant. Add in legal fees and the cost of the property being trashed while you still have to service a BTL mortgage, is a risk most people just dont have deep enough pockets to sustain. Even if most tenants are good, you only need 1 bad egg to turn your investment into a financial bomb.

4) The public perception of landlords is such that there is now a stigma associated with it. Its like saying you're investing in mink farms or fracking.

5) There are usually alternative investments that will produce better returns for less risk. Bonds, stocks, property in other jurisdictions etc.

3DataModem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121378960#Comment_121378960

Been doing this close to 25 years (some times with and some times without agents). I appreciate some of what you say might be true in some cases, but a very good agent can reduce the hassle to zero. The non-payer will be dealt with appropriately within the law by the agent, and doesn't magically solve the problems but they will be more effective than a person with a family, a full time job, and much much less experience. Your experience differs, fair enough.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058322066/becoming-a-landlord

I’ve one residential left and it’s not in a traditional lease agreement. I’ve it let under a long term lease agreement to a city council, I would not want to be at the political whim of current and future governments as current private landlords are

3DataModem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379779#Comment_121379779

You can be unlucky, sure, but you are less likely to be unlucky with an experienced agent good at sniffing out bad tenants. I had an experience recently where the tenant asked to move out after 3 months due to a circumstance change. They offered to assign the lease to someone, but that someone was not really someone the agent recommended we'd put in the place. I was away at the time, he made the call to let the tenant out of their lease early, full deposit back, so we could get someone he chose himself in. Experience matters here. And yes I've had non-payers. No magic solution. But knowing the agent is dealing with it (letters, notice periods, RTB) means I don't have to think about, or worry about a slip-up.

Again, just my experience. I travel a lot. Don't want calls in the middle of the night (daytime in Ireland, nighttime where I am). Don't want my wife hassled.

Tombo2001

This right to buy legislation - what is the point of it?

If the landlord decides to sell, in 99.9% of cases the tenant has the right to buy anyway - am I wrong? They can bid alongside everyone else.

What it will do though is mess up the sales process, as anyone in the open market looking to buy will just think - well its rented out so the tenant might outbid me anyway?

Also - would normal caveats apply? Does LL know if the tenant has mortgage approval for example.

Landlords selling up will have to give tenant option to buy as delayed legislation goes to Cabinet (thejournal.ie)

arctictree

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121400388#Comment_121400388

As always, the devil is in the detail:

"The proposed legislation sets out that where a Notice of Termination is served on the basis of the landlord’s intention to sell the rented home, the landlord will be obliged under section 12 of the Residential Tenancies Acts to simultaneously invite their tenant to make a bid to purchase the property within 90 days.

After the 90-day period, the landlord would be further obliged to invite any tenant who made an unsuccessful bid during the initial 90-day period to make a further bid to purchase the property at a price equal to the final sales price that the landlord is willing to agree with a third party on the open market.

The landlord would be obliged to accept such a further matching bid from the tenant, under the new rules."

I wonder does this mean that the seller has to offer the house to the tenant at the final open market bid? What if the open market buyer then wants to offer more?!

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121400635#Comment_121400635

Good question - I would interpret it as being No - you have a final bid and tenant can buy at that price; you cant go back to the other bidder.

The other question is - what right of refusal does the landlord have where tenant in the initial phase is bidding below the market level.

Also - this would be a great way for a tenant to screw things up for a landlord; could see this being used maliciously in some cases. Ah yes I'll bid, no I wont, actually I willl, actually I'm waiting on the bank, bank still hasnt answered, actually I wont...

Pawwed Rig

So essentially the tenant can buy the house at whatever the top bid is thereby having a minuscule advantage over everyone else? The transparency of the bidding process would be a concern here as who is to say what the top bid actually is?

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403618#Comment_121403618

So if a buyer bids on a rented property, and their highest bid is matched by the tenant, the landlord is legally obliged to sell to the tenant? That sounds like potential buyers of rentals will be in a limbo situation until the tenant decides what they want, or else buyers will need to make a much higher bid that may not be matched. That could mean higher prices for people trying to buy a rented property - why would any buyer bother with the extra hassle

Also, if the state is now determining who an owner has to sell their property to, will there be a lot of new termination notices issued? Just when it seemed like the rental market was settling down a bit.

SharkMX

They'll probably give the tenant 90 days to bid AFTER the last bidder too. So anyone else interested in buying has to wait 3 months after they are the highest bidder to hear if they are successful. Watch.

josip

So after a while, some prospective buyers will avoid bidding on rental properties. Thereby resulting in a lower sale price than for an identical non-rental property.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121405067#Comment_121405067

Another reason a few more small landlords will sell up. Why would they wait and maybe get caught up in more red tape/bureaucracy and then get a lower price for their property.