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Becoming a Landlord?

  • 10-11-2023 8:23pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 583 ✭✭✭Facthunt


    Just curious if anyone has recently bought property to become a Landlord? What’s the experience been like and is it worth the hassle if you only have 1 property or would you really need a portfolio?



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,371 ✭✭✭herbalplants


    Expect hard work, you need to have a hard neck to deal with tenants.

    Remember the shills only get paid when you react to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 583 ✭✭✭Facthunt


    True! I suppose you could always look at using an agency!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 380 ✭✭Iodine1


    Ever wonder why landlords, even with a few properties are selling up and walking, no running away since 2016? The Government, Treashold, McVerry, Sinn Fein, P4P, Labour, social democrats etc etc etc all persecuting landlords and then wondering why owners are choosing to leave property empty rather than let it out?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,815 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    How would having a portfolio help?

    the basic problem is that you buy a place for 400k, rent it for 30k net a year without gaps or costs, but it will be 2052 before you even make the 400k back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    Generally however, there's a slight upward trend of properties being rented up to 2022. See the third set of bars below.




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭DubCount


    I guess there are always some, but very few people are taking this option.

    In 2022, there were more than 52 thousand mortgage draw downs, of which about 800 were buy2let mortgages.

    Its not worth the hassle - its not worth the risk



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 583 ✭✭✭Facthunt


    How does it actually work …. ?

    Also to the guys who replied so far! Thank you. Interesting info to take on board ….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 583 ✭✭✭Facthunt


    Say if I made €15k in rent a years …. What gets defected ? Please feel free to show an example!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 583 ✭✭✭Facthunt


    *deducted



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,183 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    We only hear of the ones leaving and with bad tenants. As they say bad sales good do not



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,177 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    Wouldn't recommend it to my worst enemy. 4 years out of it and it's got harder for landlords since. Find a better way to invest your money.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,430 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Been at it 20 years or so. You have good periods when everything goes smoothly until it doesn't and then it is hassle hassle hassle.

    Calls form angry neighbours, calls from Gardai, tenants calling you about nonsense*, woken up in middle of the night because there are parties going on. Tenants who owe you thousands and are wrecking the place and yet win their case in the RTB.

    Absolute mugs game. Had 2 properties. Second one is being sold now. Never again



    *once I was called because tenant said his broadband was too slow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,232 ✭✭✭straight


    I'm down to one buy to let at the moment. A thankless sport in this country. When values plummeted and interest rates rose nobody helped me.. but when there was more rental demand for my properties I wasn't allowed to benefit from the upside. My 3 bed semi is now let for 1250 for the last number of years but it is probably worth at least 600 euro more. All the while the mortgage repayments and costs of maintenance are increasing.

    Dose anybody here have experience of owning a place in Lanzarote or malaga or somewhere similar where it is managed by a letting agency and you or your family can use it for a few weeks of the year. Thinking of investing in Spain myself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,039 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    If you don't know how rental income is taxed, obviously you should not get involved.



    Gross rental income

    less deductions

    = net rental profits, which is taxed at your marginal rate


    Deductions allowed:

    mortgage interest

    maintenance expensescapital allowances, I think 12.5% per year over eight years



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 313 ✭✭BillyHaelyRaeCyrus


    Dont do it. You will simply be making someone dead money and a failure having to rent your home. Allow the property go to a home owner so that person can have a normal life



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,354 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Less of the drama please. The OP would also be Providing a service to people that cannot obtain a mortgage or on social payments where renting is the only option.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭DubCount


    Ah yes - separate from the financial considerations, a prospective landlord must be prepared for the backlash of popular opinion that landlords should not be allowed to carry on their business and are generally money grabbing fat cats living off the backs off ordinary folk.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 583 ✭✭✭Facthunt


    Yikes …. Thanks guys. A lot to take on board!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,364 ✭✭✭arctictree


    I have an old cottage that I would like to rent long term but I cant see the sums working. Every few years there is a major job that needs done. New kitchen, new bathroom, new boiler etc etc. With high taxation and regulation, its just not worth it to let it out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭RoboRat


    I did it for a few years as I had to move down the country and I couldn't sell my house as it was in negative equity. Ironically, I was renting where I moved to.

    The house was immaculate when i put it in the market and i wasn't making enough to cover the mortgage, so i was having to top it up. First tenants were OK, paid the rent on time and kept the inside reasonable, the outside was let go to **** though.

    Second tenant stopped paying after 6 months. Couldn't get a hold up him and eventually my neighbour rang to say birds were flying into the house. Went up and the house was thrashed. His kids were using it as a knocking shop and he was awol. I filled 2 skips with rubbish... empty bottles of vodka, pizza boxes, Chinese cartons... even had the delight of pulling used condoms off the floor and cleaning dried vomit. The couches were ripped, cigarettes put out on the walls... I spent 2 solid weeks cleaning it.

    Final tenants did the bare minimum and if anything went wrong, they were on the phone. The house was really grimy and dirty... chip oil on the walls and ceilings, the floor was never cleaned and the carpet was minging. They never tended the garden, or even cut the grass... it was a jungle. I talked to them about a rent increase as I was still subsidising the mortgage... nope, they couldn't afford it.

    I decided then to sell the house as it was at parity with what I owed... I had put about 50k into it but I would rather write that off than have to deal with another tenant.

    I told the tenants I was selling and low and behold, they could offer more. I was done though, as soon as I got an offer to cover what I owed, I sold. I could have held on and made a bit to help buying my current house, but I couldn't deal with tenants again.

    I wouldn't consider doing it again, I would have been better to sell at a loss as I spent so much having to fix it up and clean it properly.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    You would want to be stone cold bonkers to give vacant possesion of a house in Ireland to a registered tenant. Only the naive or inexperienced landlords will rent to a group or family. Im a professional landlord.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 583 ✭✭✭Facthunt


    What about using a letting agency?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,602 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    And what about people who need to rent accommodation in places where they wouldn't buy?

    There are people studying in Ireland and working here short term who will be returning to their home country after X period of time and just need to rent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    A letting Agency? Why? They charge 10% for collecting the rent and still bill you for any expense and bear none of the responsibility. Id rather be a letting agent than a landlord.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,227 ✭✭✭Thinkingaboutit


    The discriminatory tax and regulatory regime seems designed to destroy the private rental sector (yet tax favoured foreign investors and local authority housing could never meet demand). McVerry, Threshold, the RTB and the rest of the state funded (hands out or hands in your pocket) quango crew regard any LL as a criminal. Anyone renting to a family is frankly at their mercy. There are opportunities, just a person has to be cunning, careful. Documentation and repairs have to be kept up to date.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,602 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Because they put distance between you and the tenant. I use one as I don't want to be dealing with tenants directly or having them phoning me at all hours.

    It's also tax deductible so an absolute no brainer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 380 ✭✭Iodine1


    Yes, indeed, of course they need somewhere. But the current climate has driven the traditional providers ie landlords out. Its not tax or profit that has driven people out, its the hassle and absolutely one sided regulations. So now its up to the RTB, Government, Local authority, Charity, Treshold etc to step in and provide.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,602 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    I don't see how my post has anything to do with anything you've just written above, I didn't say anything either way about what was driving landlords out of the market.

    I was talking about people who are temporarily renting in a particular location for college or work - these people need a place to stay and the person I was quoting hasn't accounted for their existence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,793 ✭✭✭Villa05


    Rather odd that you excluded ffg as the LL exodus occurred under there watch and there policies



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 380 ✭✭Iodine1


    No, they are there under Government and I don't think I have them all either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭rightmove


    Was both a LL and tenant at the same time for a long time, and the policies of the last 10 years have rightly ****ed it up for both. As a result I am neither a LL nor a tenant now.

    Being both LL and tenant I could see the gov policies were virtue driven and counterproductive, often done to satify the drum beating of the naive and clueless media and to offset SF.!!!!!!

    As a LL I just wanted to be able to remove non paying tenants (without having to activate the spanish inquisition) for the largest asset I would ever own and I see that this has never been looked properly after all these years. What a spineless hower the gov are.

    The rtb is paid for by LL to screw LL's.

    Also the rent I was charged was fair (as a tenant) and the rent I charged (as a LL) was more than fair. (way below market) and the gov screwed us for being nice here also.

    dont do it.!



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,430 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Tax was never a complaint I had tbh. Ot was the lack of control you have over your own asset. The eviction ban was the last straw which showed what a supposed right wing government would do where they dictated that I had to hold an asset and keep paying for it even if I didn't want to. If FG do that what are SF going to do as they are openly anti landlord. I would fear that people will lose complete control of their assets. Never again

    Give the money to Davys and see what they can do with it for you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52 ✭✭themoone


    In addition to all the above dealing with the RTB is a total nightmare, they are so lazy and lately have tried to pass their work on to you. when you try and register they will come up with any excuse not to process your application (can't find address for landlord however they can send to him on that address!!) and when it is pointed out they are unable to update their records. This is for an existing tenancy so they already have the information on system and processed the payment (40Euro). You are then advised by them to do it online and of course in addition to the 40euro you have already paid you will have to pay another 40euro along with the fine. Scam all round.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,177 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    There are bad tenants, there are worse letting agencies!! Nope



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,718 ✭✭✭whippet


    Letting agents will take their commission and all will be rosy when things go well. As soon as things go tits up the letting agency will be hands off and leave you to deal with the fall out. When I had my rental trashed by a tenant (who was apparently highly recommended by the agency) they literally walked away from having any dealings with the place.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,430 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,177 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    And mine!! They lied about the number of tenants in the house as well and their occupations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Dtoffee


    I had good tennants for 8 years and never put the rent (€900pm) up. They got lucky and got a Council home, next thing I was told that I could not increase the rent (now assessed at €2k by estate agents) for two years unless I added 25% to the floor space. The more I delved into the RTB and the anti LL laws, the more I was put off renting, so I just decided to work on the house over the two years rather than rent.

    I am now 18 months in and have quietly worked away on the house (making sure it is occupied for a month each year at least). Next May I will have a choice, chance renting again vs sell up and pay CGT or set up an Air B&B....... at this stage, the Air B&B option seems to be my best option at the moment. The last thing I need is to sign a rental agreement and then be told that the tenant has lost his/her job, cant afford to pay and I can't move them.

    There are so many nightmare scenario's for landlords under the current system, that I really cannot see any benefit at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,718 ✭✭✭whippet


    one of my tenants was a single mother who had rented though the agency for a number of years and was a 'salt of the earth' type. What the letting agent forgot to tell me that she was looking to move to a larger rental as her husband was due to be released from cloverhill after a couple of years of a stretch for violent assualts and drug dealing. Two weeks after signing the lease for a Single mother on HAP I get phone calls from my neighbours (who are guards) asking me if I had any idea who was now living in my house. First month rent was paid - then nothing - Letting agency offered nothing in support and it took 9 months to get them out. They only left as the house was raided by the guards and the husband was back in the clink. About €15k worth of damage to the house and as they moved in to a caravan and went on living a nomadic life there was no way to follow up for me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 834 ✭✭✭GGTrek


    I can see that you have absolutely no idea about the communist (punitive) landlord legislation in Ireland. I sold 10 units in Dublin in 2019 and never looked back, especially now with high interest rates, you can purchase EU issued bonds at 4% for 20 years or even more for example Bank of Ireland issued a 10y 5% bond. Being an Irish resident after rental tax and expenses it would be hard to get a better net yield, even stock market on the long term rarely will provide more than 6% with a lot of volatility. A few of the people (old names) who answered you gave you the right answers on landlord legislation and clown agents.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭SharkMX



    You need planning permission for airbnb I think. I might be wrong though because the rules change every second day as far as i can tell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭RoboRat


    Have you considered taking one room and renting the other rooms out? My mate has a house and he does this as he can drop up to the house whenever he wants to ensure it's being maintained, and you can earn up to €14,000 per year tax-free.

    To be honest, if I still had the house that I rented out, that would be the route I would take.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭meijin



    only works if you live there

    otherwise

    • RTB will declare that they're tenants, as the LL doesn't in fact live there (no, keeping an "empty room" doesn't qualify)
    • Revenue will request full tax on it (plus penalties?), as it was not LL's PPR


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,901 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    By small landlords or REITs?

    there’s a huge difference between the 2.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,375 ✭✭✭893bet


    What’s the alternative? Rent by the room to individuals/student?

    Not a walk in the park either I suspect.


    I always watch these threads with interest as I am considering buying a rental.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 362 ✭✭RobbieV


    I just became a landlord. Tenant is in the property 3 years. Minds it well. I just completed a few jobs for her about a month ago that the previous owner had left for nearly a year.

    Looking to get it registered to keep all correct and so she can claim the rent credit.

    My own salary is so shite that il be paying 20% tax rate on around 80% of the rental income .

    Also I own the property mortgage free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    There is no walk in the park with rental property. There is a reason why a lot of landlords are fleeing the market. One thing for sure is the least return/most dangerous option is to enter an RTB governed arrangement. The least hassle return is probably commercial property if you want a low yield long term return.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,122 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I know a few with with properties abroad. Think they all struggled with renting them. One or two had serious issues with management companies and worse.

    A handful made good use of it for their own holidays.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,122 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Very hard to find a good one. If you do I think it's worth it.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,430 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Out of interest (professional) do you have any other loans/mortgages? If so you would be better financially to have debt on the rental property as you get a tax deduction at the higher tax rates.

    Have you considered leveraging?

    No need to answer but might be something you hadn't considered



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