Offered a Trial for Position, but company rescinded

Saul Goodman 91

Hi everyone.

I just thought I'd post here to maybe gain other people's feedback on a scenario which is going to be a little long winded, but would appreciate anyone's patience in reading.

Basically in June, I interviewed by Teams for a job with a company within the motor industry. I have a lot of previous experience within this sector and had previously done a number of interviews with this particular company over the years. I was unfortunately unsuccessful for this position once again, but I did not mind too much, as I was looking to gain experience doing interviews and I thought it would help.

At the end of July, I was notified by my present company (a large multinational consultancy) that I was placed in scope for redundancy. I accepted it and have been taking part in the process since then which has been very slow moving, although I have still been paid my full salary each month. In September, I was notified that I will not officially exit the company until the end of November and I have since then chosen to wait it out, as I would be due a reasonable package given my years of service with the company and it would be a shame to lose out on it.

Early last month I received a call by the HR department of the aforementioned motor industry company I had interviewed with in June. They told me they had another position that they thought I would be suitable for. I informed them it all sounded good, but there was just one issue in that I was tied up in a redundancy process with my present company until the end of November. They nonetheless scheduled an interview with me for Thursday of that week and in addition they asked me to bring proof of my bachelor degree and my MSc.

When the Thursday came, I did the interview in person at their offices and all went very well. I met with the HR woman I was on the phone to and had interviewed with previously, in addition to the manager of the department I was interviewing for. The manager more or less said everything about the role matched my C.V. and that they would be enthusiastic about giving me a trial and even getting me to go out for lunch to meet the team sometime beforehand. My unavailability until the end of November was however a bone of contention which I explained again honestly and in transparent detail, to which they hummed and hawed about for a while. They said most of the work that needed doing in the department would be happening in November, but that there was a flip-side benefit in that being less busy in December meant they could train me in better. I finished the interview on good terms and the HR woman led me out of the offices to reception. She there asked me to forward her on two references, which I sent on over the following weeks.

For the past two or three weeks, I heard nothing back from the company other than acknowledgement of the references I sent. Yesterday afternoon, I received a telephone call from a number which I recognised as their offices. In my head I instantly thought the inevitable to which I was unfortunately proven to be right. The HR woman opened the call with the usual hello and how are you, then followed with "unfortunately you have been unsuccessful in your application for this role". I thought, how can this be, they said they were giving me a trial at the start of December. I had put off one interview for another job and applying for potentially several others because I was optimistic about this particular position. They said to me that they continued interviewing other candidates and that they found one that had better experience than me. They also said that there was never an official job offer for me and I shouldn't have expected it, despite the promise of a trial and to meet the colleagues of the team.

I thought to myself that on a human level this was quite unfair. I just want to know what other people think and was hoping maybe someone would say that I have dodged a bullet of what sounds like a bad place of work (if that scenario is any measure of how they behave).

They offered again to keep my details on file (like they previously had done) for other positions in the company, to which I declined. I am not usually a believer in burning my bridges, but I felt I would be letting myself down by agreeing to be put through another potential scenario like that again.

While disappointing and frustrating it is indeed your own fault OP. You took a trial shift and talk about a lunch with co workers as a job offer, it really wasn’t even close to that.

What they wanted was to get you in and see how you work, the lunch was likely to see how you gel with the team (and vice versa) but at the end of the day you’re not available to start for a month and other candidates were available immediately. It is what it is.

There’s also no inhumanity in my opinion a business doing business is what I see here. whats to say you wouldn’t have taken a different job offer a week before you were due to start there for example? Absolutely nothing. They would have thought about all of this

troyzer

If anything they were doing you a favour by not scheduling a trial and wasting your time when they had already fallen in love with another candidate.

I wouldn't take it personally.

Saul Goodman 91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338010#Comment_121338010

I couldn't have taken another job. I am tied up until the end of November. I never took a trial as a job offer and did not say anywhere in my post that I did.

If they were potentially not going to be in a position to offer me a trial in December, surely they should have informed me they were still going to be interviewing other candidates. That would have been better in my opinion. I am honourable and out of respect to them and other companies, I was not sending my C.V. around. I suppose I am wrong though and "business is business" as you say! I do find it hard occasionally to separate myself from that mantra. I figured anyway that coming up to Christmas season there would not be much point applying for permanent roles. I have however applied for temporary seasonal positions.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338151#Comment_121338151

l mean to say you could have interviewed and accepted another role or made arrangements to start.

Surely your current employer can cut you loose early without risking your redundancy package? I’m not super familiar with this area so I might be way off there!

Regardless it’s a tricky situation because while you might be the perfect fit for a job if you’re not able to start for over a month you really do need that extra edge to push you beyond other candidates who may be able to start immediately or within a few weeks.

I recently enough lost out on a job because I have a two week notice period and another candidate was available yesterday. I know the feeling but it is what it is! If it was my business I probably wouldn’t hold on for someone either.

It’s worth noting that the trial itself would have been little more than a practical interview so you weren’t exactly being offered a job even on the back of the trial.

Point being even if they had kept the trial date intact and you went ahead with it you may not have been offered a job—- or indeed even liked the place enough yourself to take one!

Long and short is I wouldn’t get too beat up over it.

Saul Goodman 91

I did consider asking about finishing early. There are hundreds of people in the redundancy process though. I was getting a good package I was happy with and didn't want to rock the boat on that either. I couldn't imagine them making an exception for me.

I know I could have been released after the trial period. I was in no doubt about that. I was just confident I was a very good fit for the role and was optimistic of the chances I would make a good impression.

Squatman

they got someone who could start when they needed someone to start. the promises of lunch and trials were before the relevant people understood you were not available per their needs. no personal issue. From the companies perspective, they would have to dole out the work among the existing staff, in order to secure you - from the employees perspective , which scenario shows a better company to work for, one that will hire when needed, or one that will save a months salary while overloading existing staff?

PS for all future endeavours, please do not refer to anyone as a "HR woman" - HR business partner, HR representative, HR member. or HR. I'm sure there are several other titles you could apply that wont make you come across as a chauvinist

listermint

4 weeks is normal notice period time. So I'd disregard anything about starting immediately. No company realistically thinks someone can drop everything and start straight away.

Also don't mention redundancy notice in future BTW. Say nothing about it and just say notice period is X number of weeks.

Saul Goodman 91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121340408#Comment_121340408

I kind of knew I would be picked up for saying that. But listen, the world has gone PC mad. She is a woman and works in HR! There would be little wrong if I said the HR man.

Saul Goodman 91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121340449#Comment_121340449

OK. Thank you for that advice.

I couldn't think of any other reason for explaining why I would not be available within standard 4 weeks. At the time my notice period would have been more like 7-8 weeks.

spaceHopper

Sorry they messed you about. Next time keep applying and interviewing. You have nothing until you have a contract in your hand. If it was me and I was getting a good package I'd be looking to take some time off and maybe do some up skilling, possibly a springboard course. Also, meet the team is fine but a trial is bogus at your level with a degree and masters, they either want you or they don't. If you were in a job would they expect you to take a day off to work for them and what if your current employer found out.

I think you were right to say not to keep you on file, there are to many red flags.

Saul Goodman 91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121340688#Comment_121340688

Thank you for that. I appreciate your comment.

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121340449#Comment_121340449

OP says that early last month this took place, so early October, it would be perfectly reasonable to expect a November start.

Hanging on for Redundancy may have sent them the wrong message, that this person is only after money.

Saul Goodman 91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121340876#Comment_121340876

I don't think anyone would walk away from a substantial redundancy. It doesn't mean that I am money hungry and I don't think I came across as that in the interview. I didn't even ask about the salary on offer. I was expecting it to be less than I was previously on and I did not mind, as I thought I would like the job.

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121340927#Comment_121340927

Perhaps not, but in June you would have taken the position without redundancy, in October you wouldn't.

Telling the perspective employer that you are not available for 8 weeks because you are waiting for redundancy is not a great look and if they are in a position where they have to make a decision between two candidates it would be something that could sway them, it certainly would not help your case.

Saul Goodman 91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341019#Comment_121341019

I had told a prospective employer the truth because I felt it was best to be transparent. I am an honest person and from my perspective I felt trying to give another reason for my inability to start for that period of time was not going to have credibility.

In June, I interviewed for a completely different role. I never applied for the role they called me back in for. I stated from the initial telephone call that I was presently engaged in a redundancy process for the next few months and gave them the opportunity then to decline but they decided to bring me in for an interview with this knowledge anyway. Why would I forfeit my redundancy to take up a role that was on a trial basis? That would be madness...

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341196#Comment_121341196

You still applied for a job and would have happily left with no worries in June, now that things have changed money is motivating you to stay, yes or no ?

I am trying to give you the opposite view, a perspective employer may not be overly enamored with a candidate for a role on this basis and may form the opinion that another candidate is a better option.

As much as you have to look after your interests they have to look after theirs, the obviously had another candidate ready to go, available to have a trial, it clearly worked out and that candidate was offered the job, from the employers perspective it would be madness as you yourself put it to wait to give you a trial and risk loosing the successful candidate.

Saul Goodman 91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341826#Comment_121341826

I am not going to labour this discussion. It would have shown poor judgment on my part if I was willing to chuck away a redundancy for a week's trial in a job.

Anyway, from what they said it was the qualifications of another candidate that swung the decision.

I would have much preferred if they told me they were still going to be interviewing candidates for the role. I had of course made provisions for the role not materialising, but it still would have been fairer practice to have informed me. They are far from innocent in all of this.

Also btw, it's "prospective" employer. Not "perspective".

Jim2007

Once you get to the interview stage, you can assume you have the basic skills to do the job and at that point it is a matter of finding a match between you and the employer. And that being the case if you have been rejected by them on a few occasions, it is probably a good idea to assume that you and they are not a good match and most likely it would not work out well for you.

Saul Goodman 91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121342155#Comment_121342155

You are possibly right.

But some organisations encourage that sort of thing. Particularly for promotions, where if you fail you try again.

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341998#Comment_121341998

So why start a thread about it?

An employer offering a trial is clearly not completely sold on the candidate for whatever reason, they likely are interviewing multiple candidates, perhaps offering numerous trials, to assume they would wait two months for the outcome of a trial that might not work out for either party is a bit of a slip up on your part.

I do not believe the employer has done anything wrong, it is not a romantic relationship where you would rightfully expect to be told that they are seeing other people, it is business.

Thank you for the correction of my minor mistake above, duly noted.

Saul Goodman 91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344773#Comment_121344773

I started a thread to gain insights from other people on my situation. I have received some helpful advice and second opinions. I have addressed what you brought to the discussion. I feel you are just being contrary.

I am moving on from this scenario of mine. I suggest you move on from this thread too. I am guessing though you are just going to keep on going in circles arguing back at me as long as I keep responding.

3DataModem

I'd suggest to others reading this

• Don't put barriers in front of a role (redundancy, notice period, availability) until you have to. Things change.
• Don't take anything as an offer until it is a written offer / contract

... and even then be careful. I resigned from a job after getting a written offer that was then rescinded. LOL. That was a stressful week.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344793#Comment_121344793

to be fair it looks more like you started a thread to have people tell you how you’re right and the companies wrong.

Just an observation based on you arguing with anyone who doesn’t agree with you completely.

Saul Goodman 91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345632#Comment_121345632

If you look back through my posts, this has not been the case.

How many people have commented on this thread? More often than not, they were not that supportive of me against the company. I did not disagree with each individual post.

You in particular were harsh to me in telling me "it was my fault" at the outset.

Why don't you and your friend do something that brings you actual pleasure in life rather than being mean to other people online. It takes little to be kind and sympathetic to others in life.

bucketybuck

Summary of OP: "I went for a job and didn't get it".

Everything else is somewhat irrelevant. There is no fault because nobody did anything wrong.

Your bigger mistake was applying for that role to begin with. You said you had been unsuccessful with them multiple times over the years, rightly or wrongly they definitely have an opinion on you at this stage.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345706#Comment_121345706

But it is your fault. I’m sorry OP but you literally assumed you had a job because of some talk about trials and lunches and are now accusing a company of being unfair because they hired someone else.

I also don’t think you understand how pedantic and childish you are coming across at the moment. Honestly, I think your last paragraph here sums it up perfectly. If not your snide comments on a grammar mistake earlier.

Saul Goodman 91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345755#Comment_121345755

I shouldn't have applied with them again to begin with.

They are always looking for staff and consistently advertise the same role for a long period of time. That was a bad sign in itself.

and also aside from the advice you’ve gotten already, rather than look to assign blame or deflect responsibility why don’t you take time to reflect on what may have gone wrong that lead to you not being offered a job again?

You could ask the HR but probably won’t get an answer but have a think back if there was anything they asked or you may have said that gave an impression they might not be super keen.

Only recently myself I interviewed for a job, they contacted me a few days after for references & then two or three weeks passed and I was told they were no longer looking to fill the role at all at the minute.

Yesterday I had a trial shift myself but I’m not going to turn around and hand notice in or cancel the trial I have scheduled for Sunday with another place, because I haven’t been offered any job yet. sorry if you do not want to hear it but you are the only one at fault here as you stopped searching for a job because you’d assumed you had one.

id take this as a learning experience rather than an opportunity to feel hard done by. Considering you have failed several interviews at this point I can only suggest you are not selling yourself well enough or they have a large candidate pool to choose from and you are being edged out.

It might be time to consider not giving them anymore of your time and energy.

Saul Goodman 91

Why don't you try not to be so direct with people? You could communicate in a way less forthright that would not cause hurt to others. Think about that for a while.

I have applied for other jobs. My plan was for seasonal work to get me through Christmas. I did not apply for any jobs until now, because my notice period was too long and the closer to Christmas it gets the less companies will be focused on hiring. I shouldn't really feel like I have to explain that to you, but that is what I had in mind

People go for dozens of jobs and do not get them. It is like dating and can take a while to find the right one. Because you fail an interview, it does not necessarily mean you are not a right fit for the company. Maybe your interview approach was wrong or you did not have the right experience at the time. It is about picking yourself up, finessing your approach and going again. Many success stories come out of adversity.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345906#Comment_121345906

Perhaps it is because I have spent most of my working life in the Germanic parts of Europe, but I don't think you do people any favours by failing to be direct with people on important topics like job hunting, finance and so on. People put a lot of effort into these things and their futures depend on it, so I don't think it is helpful to allow them to continue bashing their heads against the wall for no good reason.

Saul Goodman 91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121346327#Comment_121346327

I disagree. You people lack emotion and compassion. We are not on all on the Apprentice. Isn't it okay for the company not to be transparent though. "That's just business".

I am not going to allow myself to be bullied and gaslighted any longer.

Good luck.

witchgirl26

OP of course they were going to interview other people. No business just interviews 1 person for a role. In fact they could have even had trials planned with multiple interviewees. And they are under no obligation to inform you how many other people they are interviewing for the role.

You say that you put off interviewing for one role & potentially applying for several others because you were optimistic about this one. That is on you. Not them. I interviewed for 7 different jobs all at the same time when I was last looking. I didn't limit myself because I liked one more than the others or was optimistic about it. Because there was no guarantee of getting it. In fact up until I had signed a contract, I was still doing some interviews as it wasn't guaranteed.

The basics of it was they really wanted someone who could work in November. They might have been willing to put that off but someone else with the same skillset was available sooner so they went with them.

As for leaving sooner - leaving early wouldn't affect your redundancy pay if your employer agrees to it. Most it will affect is that you wouldn't get a salary from them for the month you leave (normal). However it does require your employer's agreement to let you finish sooner than the redundancy date. You can also use any leave you may have to shorten the notice period. It's all up on citizens information.

As for how you approached your potential new employer. I get what you mean about being honest but there are times when you need to play your cards a bit closer to your chest and decide when to reveal things. I wouldn't have let them know that you were going through redundancy but rather say that you were unavailable to start until December.

Look the hard truth is that the business in question were looking after their own interests. They're never going to be that mindful of the feelings of individuals who are ultimately not going to be working for them.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121346466#Comment_121346466

You seem to have made an awful lot of assumptions on very little information...

The company offered you a trial, not a job, but on that basis you decided stop applying for other jobs and put off interviews etc... that was on you not them. A trial is just that, it might have worked out or it might not, it is certainly not a reason to stop your whole job seeking efforts on the chance you might be offered a job after the trial.

And it is not a question of emotion, compassion, bullying or gaslighting, it is a question of dealing with the reality of job hunting. This kind of stuff happens all the time, so I have no idea how you are going achieve your objective: "I am not going to allow myself to be bullied and gaslighted any longer.", beyond giving up the hunt.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121340876#Comment_121340876

By the way, this rather ridiculous. There isn't a hiring manager alive that would judge somebody for hanging on for an imminent redundancy payment.

They may think it bad timing and go with a candidate who can start sooner, but they would understand why the person wanted to wait.

Redundancy payments are often significant, frankly it would be more bizarre if somebody left just before getting it.

Not to mention something that hiring managers already know, all candidates are after money...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121346466#Comment_121346466

Jesus OP, with such an attitude I cannot understand how you ever found a job let alone expect to get a new one…

Nody

Mod:

And with that we'll put this thread to rest. I've been in discussion with OP via PMs and they have gotten advise on the situation.