Questions Regarding Selling A Rifle

Brontosaurus

My question is what happens if you ask a dealer to sell your rifle on commission, but while you're waiting for the sale your license expires?

Unfortunately I've had bad hearing problems that have prevented me from participating in shooting sports for the past two years. For the past year I've not been a member of any club or range. I've been holding off hoping that my condition improves so that I can get back into it, meanwhile my rifle has been sitting in a dealer. My licence is up for renewal soon and I doubt I'd get approved for renewal considering I'm not a member of any club currently and have not shot a single round in over a year.

Mellor

You firearm is with the dealer. It’s under his possession, you do not require a license unless you plan to re-possess the firearm.

This is the same as if you are late in renewing a license, you need store it with a RFD in the interim.

otmmyboy2

Talk to your FO and explain the situation. Some can be decent and understanding.

Even consider letting the licence lapse til your condition improves and save yourself 80 quid possibly wasted?

Brontosaurus

So even if I don't have the license, it's still technically my property indefinitely, and all is good so long as I am not in possession of it and it stays in the hands of the RFD?

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338957#Comment_121338957

Precisely, ownership and possession are two very distinct things when it comes to firearms.

Anyone can own one, but to possess it you need a certificate/licence/authorisation/etc.

So yes, while it is in the RFD you absolutely own it, but without a firearm certificate you cannot possess it.

The only thing to be aware of is to keep on top of RFD storage fees, since a lot of them have contracts where if the fees go unpaid for X amount of time, the firearm will become their property to dispose of to recover their fees.

Just something to keep in mind.

Brontosaurus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338974#Comment_121338974

Ah OK that clarifies it for me thank you, that was my main worry. I'll be sure to keep on top of the storage fees, thanks guys :)

Brontosaurus

I have recently been in contact with the local FO, and they're of the opinion that if my license expires but the rifle is at the RFD, I am still considered in breech of the law and in position of a firearm without a license. My license has not expired yet fortunately. I've a lot going on in my life atm so have not had the time to try to do a private sale or look into how that works, and still waiting to hear back from the RFD if they're interested in buying it directly. Anyone else been in this situation able to give advice?

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121891824#Comment_121891824

Presuming that you mean " the rifle is at the RFD,", not " the rifle is at the FO,"?

Given that, I would say get a note from your RFD where the firearm is stored stating that it is stored with the RFD(and thus not in your possession).

Send a copy to your FO stating that you are no longer in possession of your firearm, that it is stored at XYZ RFD, here is the proof in the note from that RFD.

That covers you legally by proving you are no longer in possession of the firearm at the expiration of the licence, and the RFD can only give out a firearm on production of a firearm licence or other authorisation, so you cannot be in possession of it again until you have another licence.

Obviously you still own the firearm, you just cannot possess it without a licence.

And at the end of the day if your FO is being unreasonable make a call to the Superintendent's office and explain your situation. Sometimes they will be more capable of sorting things out than the FO.

Brontosaurus

Yeah sorry I meant the RFD. Yeah from what I've been told here, it's perfectly legal to have it stored at the RFD without a license so long as I never try to take possession of it. The FO has been friendly and accommodating but just has a different understanding of the law or there's some sort of misunderstanding. I don't want to be the guy to question someone whose job it is to know such things but it puts me in an awkward position. Worst case I will do as you suggest, I appreciate the advice. I will also talk with the RFD about the situation and try to get a note.

While I'm here, what's the process of selling a firearm privately to someone? I assume the RFD would facilitate the sale, but would I have to wait for the buyer to get their license, which can take a while?

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893013#Comment_121893013

No worries at all, happy to help :)

Unfortunately there is no formal training for FOs about firearms licencing when they take that responsibility on, which can lead to a lot of confusion and difficulties. You have to bear in mind their job is to basically administrate the applications and renewals but beyond that there is often no more specialised knowledge that they have vs a regular guard regarding fireams licencing, which is to say sparse at times 😉

Do get the RFD letter, and unless you produce a licence for him to record in his "guns out" book he cannot legally give you the firearm, so there is no question about you being illegally in possession if you have it stored with him, active licence or not.

To sell a firearm privately since it is in storage, you would arrange either for the dealer to sell it on your behalf, or to sell it yourself.

If selling it yourself I would(shameless plug for the forum here), take photos and stick it up in the shooting for sale forum on boards:

https://www.boards.ie/categories/shooting-for-sale-wanted

Paying attention to the rules for for sale adverts which require(at minimum):

The title of the advert to begin with "For Sale" and then the item for sale,

Photos of the firearm for sale(your own, not stock ones due to copyright etc),

A price,

A location(county is fine but you can specify XYZ RFD too since it is in storage there),

And a description.

What will usually happen in the RFD case is the firearm will sit with him until he sells it, at which point he will contact you and tell you what it sold for and when to come in to sign some paperwork and get your money.

On the private sale front(taking it that the firearm remains in storage at the RFD), you advertise the gun for sale either here or elsewhere and an interested party contacts you. You could either arrange to meet them at the RFD and show off the firearm, or direct them to view the gun at the RFD and let the RFD know that someone will be coming in to look at it. All going well either in person or online the person sends you either a deposit or the full amount for the firearm, and applies for the licence. Once they recieve the licence they pay the balance(if a deposit) before collecting the firearm from the RFD.

Entirely up to you as to whether you want to go for the deposit or full payment route, most private sales go the latter since they are then rid of the gun rather than waiting for X amount of time for the applicant to get a licence which can be anywhere from 2 weeks to 6+ months depending on their district.

I would always tend towards the full payment since it is cleaner for all parties personally.

Cass

Just a sidenote or tip.

If you're not renewing then cancel your license using the FCA2 and get a letter from the RFD to say the firearm is stored there, for sale.

The possible cause of concern for your FO is that your license is still currently valid, you're not renewing, and if you take possession of the firearm, which you're entitled to do, and the license expires you will be in breach of the act.

Now it's a stretch, but not unreasonable.

The letter from the RFD, and the cancellation of the license with the FCA2 will alleviate the FOs concerns.

Anyone who does not want to renew a license should cancel the license with the FCA2 as the act of simply not renewing does not cancel the license, it means no new license is issued but on PULSE (to the best of my knowledge) the system shows as a license being "outstanding".

Brontosaurus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893396#Comment_121893396

I really appreciate all the info and taking the time to write it out! So they can apply for the license even though I have a license for it at the time or should I fill out the FCA2 first?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895455#Comment_121895455

Thanks as well for the advice. Yeah I can understand their perspective, they've been sound about it all to be fair to them. It all just gets a bit confusing and frustrating when there are multiple understandings of the law at play. Unless I am misunderstanding, they want me to first sell it, then fill out the FCA2 and hand them a receipt as proof.

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121918251#Comment_121918251

No worries, happy to help! :)

Yes, they can indeed apply for a licence while you still have it licenced, no particular need for you to fill out the fca2 beforehand.