Work up to 75!

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121380676#Comment_121380676

Nothing then. Let's leave it there.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121380703#Comment_121380703

Honest to God, I've no idea how some people even afford one. I'm spending nearly a grand a month just on my wee bedroom. It's ridiculous but this is how things are.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121380785#Comment_121380785

Why does your accommodation cost so much?

Scarcity.

Why is it now so scarce? Have they been knocking down buildings left right and centre every year?

There is a very simple way to increase scarcity, and that is to inflate demand.

Very, very profitable enterprise. Very, very destructive.

For example

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/02/27/healy-rae-ukrainian-accommodation-contract-worth-more-than-160000/

Follow the breadcrumbs presented there; financial incentivisation, corruption, ill-placed leadership. Now expand it exponentially across an entire country.

Easy sheckles.

m2_browning

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121380745#Comment_121380745

He literally went on a entitled rant about “boomers”

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121380807#Comment_121380807

Xenophobia hasn't solved anything and won't solve this.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381031#Comment_121381031

You've soaked up the narrative, I'll give you that.

Surprisingly sudden increase in cost of accommodation...nothing whatsoever to do with surprisingly sudden increase in population.

Sure. Your brain knows what's up. It might be buried beneath god knows what nonsense, but it knows.

It's a chefs kiss job, it truly is. Rampant exploitation at nation level hidden behind a wall of taboo-trained psychology.

Potent. But again, everyone's brain knows what's up, it's just a matter of engaging with it.

I suppose I should add this to perhaps help penetrate the mask: no, it's not a matter of hatred of migrants (which is, surprise surprise one of the numerois modus operandi, to "personalise" and "individualise" rather than treat it as an economic ransack), its simply a matter of increasing demand that just so happens to overlap with financial incentivisation from the very same cohort of people in charge of increasing demand.

When you go to bat for these people, you are, quite literally, increasing the cost on yourself so as to increase their profits.

Think about that the next time you're handing over exorbitant rent.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309838#Comment_121309838

There's some reasonably justifiable feelings of anger towards today's pensioners as their generation did, if not entirely intentionally, pull the ladder up behind themselves.

I and a lot of people I know of a similar age to me have had kids and gotten married etc well before buying a property.

We'll all have to work until we're 75 in order to have anything left to give our kids when we die after we finish paying our mortgages in our 60's.

My own parents weren't exactly keen on being treated as child minders for our kids, I wouldn't have expected it either, not everyone is dumping their kids with the grandparents and swanning off to work. Must be handy for those who can but most of us have had to deal with child minders (don't get me started) or creches and the associated costs while paying insane rents and trying to scrape a deposit together for a home.

Listening to older people complaining about their lot in life when any gobsh1te could get on the property ladder or have a council house handed to them back in their day is a bit galling to say the least, they had some short term pain and a lifetime on easy street.

If anything the "boomer" (not a fan of that phrase) generation in Ireland will likely be looked upon as the nost fortunate generation in the entire history of this country. Things were ever better for the average Joe or Jane Soap, it's taken retrospect for that to be clear enough to be understood.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381241#Comment_121381241

Rent didn't start to go up faster than wages when the Ukranians arrived. It's been going on for decades at this stage.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381367#Comment_121381367

I don't blame this boomer thing at all.

They just so happen to be indirect benefactors of the biggest profiteering scam of the last few centuries. Migrant led asset inflation.

Look at all the different countries that are suffering multiple overpopulation problems such as accommodation.

What do they have in common? United states, Canada, Ireland, Australia, UK, other big parts of Europe.

Big increases in non-ethnic population.

Find a country that has had an ethnic population explosion. You'll be hard pushed. Cross reference that with the likes of their real estate increases.

When the government here put out their 2040 plan with the not-too-hidden goal of increasing the population by 1 million extra people, that wasn't a policy. That was a fooking advertisement.

A government backed guarantee that if your vulture fund got in here, there was no way they'd let supply ever meet demand. Very attractive.

This isn't about boomers, or happen chance landlords. This is wholesale, country level asset inflation constructed by those gaining the money. Theyre all ages. This is a clearly demonstrated and easily linked phenomenon across a slew of countries following the same blueprint of profiteering at the expense of their societies.

Dramatic? Only if you don't think about it.

Funny how all these mistakes just keep repeating year in and year out, again and again, while the profits go up, year in and year out, again and again.

Say the government's, repeatedly,

https://ibb.co/pdPnJ7P

So yeah, when you're told again and again that things will "get better", such as pension age, and huge migration later its actually worse...that's smoke that was blown up your hole. Along with all the rest of it.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381416#Comment_121381416

Oh I think you'll find specific policies overlap very nicely if you look hard enough! And it was long before ukrainians.

All the ukrainian thing did was hit the fast forward button on what was already happening. Typical greed, just cant make do with massive profit, it always has to be more and more, even to the point of destroying itself by laying it all bare.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381511#Comment_121381511

Let's see some proof.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381529#Comment_121381529

How much proof does your brain need to compute the inevitable impact of hundreds and hundreds of thousands of extra people introduced into a system that year and year out has demonstrated beyond all doubt that it can never match, nevermind exceed, that capacity?

What is it, exactly, that you are struggling with to such an extent that you need "proof"?

Do you need proof that if if you eat 200 hundred hamburgers in a weekend you might feel sick?

Or are you just really trying to run back and forward in front of a mountain telling people desperately that it doesn't exist, to look away?

There comes a point where satisfying intellectual dishonesty is simply an insult.

The proof you are looking for is already in your brain.

ancapailldorcha

You're simply peddling xenophobia. Since there's no proof, this is debunked.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381578#Comment_121381578

So, you cannot understand the repercussions of hundreds and hundreds of thousands of extra people arriving into a system that fails capacity worse each year, one after the other.

"Xenophobia" says you. A desperate, illogical response.

Well, you keep up batting for your own expensive demise, ignore the most rudimentary of economic conclusions, and lets see how things change after 5 more years of the system you defend.

But we don't need to see, do we? We know. Yes, you and your brain knows. You just don't like it.

Try flicking through your pavlovian cliffs notes for that one.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381624#Comment_121381624

What are you doing about it then? We know it's not true but I'll humour you. What bold actions are you taking?

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381578#Comment_121381578

They aren’t, that’s a disingenuous argument on your behalf.

a question for everyone… think of people you know 65-75 right now.

how many are in very good health ?

Both my parents suffered from worsening bad arthritis my Dad got it in his 50’s, my mother her 60’s. My Dad managed a heart condition that didn’t force an early retirement but he chose to take it because he could afford to…got a good deal… If he couldn’t have ? He might be or probably would be dead. Instead he’s led a brilliantly active, enjoyable yet relaxed and fruitful retirement with for the most part, good or manageable health. Working till 75 ? He’s dead most likely…

I’ve an aunt on a frame crippled with arthritis since about 70 years old, another has some sort of back issue that at one point despite several operations has had her practically addicted to painkillers until there was one positive surgical intervention…

people’s health would disintegrate if they are forced to work till 75.. life expectancy would too.

How many 65-75 year old are not managing health conditions or with people, husbands or wives who are ?

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381651#Comment_121381651

I'll tell you the mere minimum I'm doing, I'm speaking the truth.

Anyone who refuses to draw the only sensible conclusion between the arrival of huge amounts of extra people into a country and the concomitant increase in cost/increase in scarcity...it's just not truthful.

Here's a mindbending exercise for you. What, does your brain imagine, would 300,000 people leaving ireland overnight have on the property market at large?

Would it be likely to decrease costs and increase availability?

Or are you going to say that there is no correllation whatsoever, as above?

This obviously isn't only about the negative impacts on housing, but a wide spectrum beyond, including the knock on effects of less family formation, more dependency, increased pension ages and so forth with logical reasoning.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381705#Comment_121381705

It'd be nice if you could say why instead of just dumping the accusation.

To answer the question, it doesn't really matter as that's where things are going. Populations are getting older, people are living longer and the diseases and conditions they're getting are much, much more expensive to manage and treat than anything the previous generation had to put up with. The old model of public services is actively dying. People will continue living longer, getting sicker and need more and more medical care with fewer people at the younger end to pay for all of it.

People's health will often disintegrate but there's no other option.

No amount of immigrant-bashing will fix this.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381511#Comment_121381511

The population has been rising for decades and the country hasn't chosen to build houses to meet demand. I'm annoyed about it but I'm not cross with the immigrants. They didn't set policy and they (mostly) aren't responsible voting for the policies that that.

The fact that they've refused to build houses is the problem. Now I hope we actually sort it out because its the right thing to do. We need to invest in Infrastructure for the future generations, even if my generation never benefits from it. Or we can continue to do nothing and there just won't be money for the publicly funded services old people enjoy today

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381750#Comment_121381750

300k leave the country tomorrow.

Probable effects on housing market, according to you?

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381782#Comment_121381782

You're falling into that insidious trap of personalising migrants.

Some individual migrant isn't to blame. Migration is to blame.

The subtle difference in language is gigantic, and it is often used as a shield against reality.

The simple fact of the matter is that each year, again and again and again and again, the government knew about the housing crisis. Each year, again and again and again and again, they allowed ever more people to come here.

There are mistakes, and then there are policies. And not all policies have to be public.

Expecting the same team who carefully curated an increasingly profitable disaster over years to "correct it" is delusional.

No, they are never going to build enough housing. They don't want to. They don't care about all the growing issues that come with it. It's making some people a fook ton of money and push comes to shove they'll walk off with their money and call it a day. Friends, businesses, relations, agreements. All done purposefully.

Building homes was never the problem and building homes is not going to solve it.

Sand

Clearly infinite demand (mass migration) will drive up costs of delivering services (housing, health, education, transport) that are in limited supply. Mass migration has always been a catastrophe for the indigenous people. Ireland has experimented with mass migration since Alan Shatter's "reforms" in 2011. There was once the idea that mass migration would deliver a wave of engineers, doctors, teachers and artists that would pay for the pensions of Irish people - 12 years later the results are in. It is Irish people who will work way past retirement age to pay for the costs of the mass migration.

There is a massive boom in the NGO/Legal/Landlord complex though, I'll grant them that.

Sand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381782#Comment_121381782

How many houses does Ireland have to build to meet infinite demand? Should we concrete over Phoenix Park? Should we look at any green space or green field and think "We could fit a whole block of apartments there!"

The reality is Irish people are having less and less children. Population is naturally falling, which should lead to falling property prices, lower cost of buying a home and forming a family and by extension Irish people having more children, lower transport costs and indeed less environmental impact. But where is the profit in that? Hence, mass migration.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381892#Comment_121381892

It doesn't get any simpler.

If you look about countries experiencing very similar results, you'll find the exact same driver behind it. The same rhetoric, the same empty promises.

The pension questions, healthcare, education etc "mass migration will solve it!" Well, how's that bullshyt working out so far? Or maybe we need mass migration squared, that'll be the next doubling down of stupidity you'll hear. Maybe if we give it another decade.

It's practically a blueprint for extorting money out of a country and leaving it wrecked. Asset inflation, at scale, that's the whole story.

No mistakes here. They are not stupid, they are not incompetent.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381888#Comment_121381888

Disagree. Migration isn't the problem at all. Choosing to not invest in the infrastructure to meet population is the the problem.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121381975#Comment_121381975

This is not a chicken/egg philosophical question.

The reason we need all that extra infrastructure is because there is all those extra people came here.

One came first and necessitates the second.

Cause and effect.

Trying to explain away that problem, which is impossible, will invariably lead to vague non-sequiturs such as "but the economy" to which the quick reply is that the economy isnt fixing anything anyway, or perhaps the vaguest like "but thats how the world works".

Migration, in my opinion, and amply backed up, is the root cause of overpopulation, and overpopulation is the root of practically every major issue in this country.

If the promises of migration were to be believed, we'd have outstanding healthcare, wondrous quality of housing, envious infrastructure all told. But it's the opposite, proving a drain rather than addition. People have eyes and ears and brains. The promises are left wanting. Case in point of thread title, the not so explicit implication that migration is needed to shore up pensions, yet the result is the likes of pension ages rising!

As to it being extremely profitable, one can decide whether its coincidence or conspiracy. But the facts are still the facts of cause and effect.

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309450#Comment_121309450

No but they see their grandkids flying off on multiple holidays every year, spending a ton of money on phones and streaming services, not to mention a half dozen pints a couple of nights a week, and then get tired of those same 20 somethings whingeing that they can't save money and blaming older people for all their problems (including environmental ones) instead of bucking up and getting their lifestyles in order.

Easy blame works both ways!

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121380527#Comment_121380527

Convinced my kids will own nothing in the future.

Be all owned by some corporate entity that owns half the world. Such progression to nothing. I think a rethink is needed here.

Btw cheap labour aspect hasn't kicked in yet. When the economy is on downward spiral. That's when it hits. We've imported enough over the last few years. With subsidized housing cost for such. So all great for big business down along the line

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121380703#Comment_121380703

Unless you decide to throw caution to the wind and have as many offspring as you please!

That's a strategy too.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121389605#Comment_121389605

Ah sure, of course I could. But, call me entitled if you want, I really like luxuries such as eating every day, paying my household bills and paying for childcare while my wife and I work. I'd also like to own a house some day (entitled, I know) so if I ever want the luxuries mentioned above plus save to own a house, I'll need to stick one child.

I see owning a house as pretty important because I imagine I'll need to sell the house to pay for my end of life care. I think the demographic protections show there won't be enough working people to pay for anything like the services old people enjoy now. So I see it as planning ahead