Work up to 75!

babyducklings1

Saw this article earlier. What the heck! Recommendation is to increase pension age to 75.Also increased prsi contributions seem to be on the cards. https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/new-report-recommends-pension-age-should-be-increased-to-75-1545856.html

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058320467/work-up-to-75

the article is misleading

its the sge you can differ the state pension until

If you differ you increase the amount receive accordingly up to 75

It's not the minimum qualifying age

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058320467/work-up-to-75

That article is incredibly badly written and makes a mess of what is actually suggested

Its deferral i.e. you can postpone claiming the pension if you want to keep working. As to why you might want to defer, this article covers it

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/0409/1375728-is-deferring-the-pension-a-good-option/

PRSI increases are 100% coming due to not raising the pension age. They indicated that in this budget with the tiny increase of 0.1%. This was done to basically set the ball rolling on increases of it. Realistically it needs to be raised by 3-4%, which will make a dent in incomes

The pension has to be paid for somehow and the population is only getting older with the population pyramid showing there will be a smaller cohort paying for the pensions of a larger cohort. The sums just don't add up anymore

Here's 3 population pyramids for Ireland, 1975, 2000, 2025 & 2050 that illustrate the issue

https://www.populationpyramid.net/ireland/

The govt are really banking on the new sovereign wealth fund to cover a chunk of the rising pension costs but PRSI is going to have to significantly increase regardless.

The only way to avoid PRSI increases is to raise the pension age, they backed off from that so here we are

emo72

maybe if rents werent so extreme we could afford to live on a pension. anyway the dystopian future is getting here faster than i expected.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308535#Comment_121308535

Expect to see euthanasia become an option sooner rather than later, for similar reasons.

(Of course no one will admit that's the reason.)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308811#Comment_121308811

A topic for a different thread, but hopefully we see it as an option sooner than later

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308568#Comment_121308568

You're f*cked if you get to retirement age without owning your home.

El_Duderino 09

Yeah the idea that there will be pensions waitng for people in their 30s now once they reach 65 is bonkers. I think the current situation where people retire in mid 60s and live a life of leisure for 20 years is a minor aberration in our history.

Boomers expect that they're entitled to it. They Think young people should work to keep them comfortable while rejecting the need for wealth tax or inheritance tax to build houses or infrastructure or childcare to facilitate those young people working. But that's old people for you.

I don't expect a pension or 20 years of leisure at the end of my life. I expect to work until I'm too old to work and then sell my house to pay for my care at the end of my life. No inheritance for my child so no need to worry about inheritance tax.

Look at the age demographic pyramids above. The numbers just don't work for my generation to have pensions or retire. Mind you, I'm only having one child because I don't think we could live and buy a house with more than one child.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308992#Comment_121308992

I remember reading in The Economist once that over 95% of retirees in the UK own their home outright. We're heading for demographic disaster overloading the private market. There's no way people will be able to live off the state pension with things as they are now.

At some point, politicians are actually going to have to build homes and infrastructure while grappling with the NIMBY's and costs or they're going to have to deliver the bad news to vast swathes of the electorate that the days of people buying their own homes are over for anyone without wealthy parents. Even then, we'll have to build a substantial amount of social housing units and move towards a German-style renting system.

Quitelife

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309060#Comment_121309060

Sad working people like yourselves are saying you can afford only one child whilst people who never work a day in their lives are having 5 or 6 children with the tax payers paying for everything!!

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058320467/work-up-to-75

An increase (albeit, very small) in PRSI was announced in the budget, and I read somewhere that it is to be increased every year at the same rate.

(eta) From 1 October 2024

The Class A employer rates of 8.8% and 11.05% will increase by 0.1% to 8.9% and 11.15% respectively. The Community Employment Participants Employer rate will increase by 0.1% to 0.6%. The Class B employer rate will increase by 0.1% to 2.11%. The Class C employer rate will increase by 0.1% to 1.95%.

looksee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309060#Comment_121309060

But that's old people for you.

Goodness, who would have thought! All those 'boomers' out there with the exact same attitudes and opinions. Amazing.

kowloonkev

Are these the same boomers that moved to bedsits in the UK for years to work as second class citizens, sending money home?

It's not the people who followed the rules and worked from 15-65 who I would be targeting. Yeah, don't forget they also started working a decade earlier than people entering the workforce these days.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309060#Comment_121309060

Yeah the idea that there will be pensions waitng for people in their 30s now once they reach 65 is bonkers. So glad I am not in my 30s lol. A wasted decade that was :( .

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309360#Comment_121309360

Feel free to provide some proof instead of some cherrypicked anecdotes.

El_Duderino 09

Yep, same ones. The entire generation who lived in a bedsit in London. Walked 6 miles to school in bare feet, uphill both ways and so on. Bought state built houses which cost 4 times their wages and even had monet left over to pay 18٪ interest for a couple of years in the 80s.

Then when asked to pay tax to build more houses for the next generations theu said 'na i already have a house, don't spend money on houses, give me tax cuts instead'.

The generation who still has a big part in running the world and demands masters degrees for jobs and then calls young people gobshytes for p1ssing about in uni when they could have been working.

They need their pensions alright and those young gobshytes will work to pay them. And they need to sell their house for 7 times those young people's wage because the lack of housing supply their generation voted for means houses are scarce.

We're talking about the same generation, right?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309432#Comment_121309432

Pretty much this. I could hack it if they could at least admit it but some of them seem to think you can go to the cinema and get your coke and snacks for a fiver with change left over.

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309295#Comment_121309295

It's as if they were told that if they worked hard and paid their taxes, they would receive a pension for their efforts.

The entitled......

tesla_newbie

and to think , the state pension was raised in the recent budget

we are doomed

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309432#Comment_121309432

With some exceptions, I did that. I work for an elite university and I get paid just enough to subsist in a houseshare with 7 other people while those older and allegedly wiser can do nothing but sneer while they go collect their weekly handout that the likes of me pay for.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309458#Comment_121309458

Yeah but there's more to the social contract that enabled pensions to work. They got a leg up on the housing ladder because the generation before them paid and build houses. When it was thier turn to pay to build houses for the next generations to replace the ones they bought up, they pulled the ladder up and Said 'fcuk em not my problem, not with my tax and not in my back yard'.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309483#Comment_121309483

I'm a lazy clown, similar to you.

I don't begrudge the old people the pension or their retirement I pay for them to have but will never have myself (I think there should be pensions and leisure time at the end of life). I'd just like to not be considered a lazy gobshyte while I'm handing them the money to spend on their retirement with one hand and paying them rent with the other hand.

endacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309295#Comment_121309295

I presume we’re taking Boomer to mean ‘older than me and financially bettor off’? Spanning an age range to include everything from Gen X up?

endacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309483#Comment_121309483

If you’re in a house share, and forgive if I’m presuming too much, but I presume you’re still of an age when you can reevaluate your situation and leave the dead end world of academia with a view to potentially improving your situation?

endacl

I’m doing a lot of presuming!

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309538#Comment_121309538

I'm exactly the same. I've no intention of removing pensions but it's galling to see these people vote for toxic ideas and people knowing that they'll either die before the consequences manifest or that they'll be insulated by their wealth. Here, they vote Tory and Boris Johnson has just said that he was happy for covid to kill them and they'll still turnout in their droves to vote for them once again.

dickdasr1234

What a bunch of whingeing fing ninnies.

Worked for my da from age 11, after school and holidays.

Left home 16, worked civil service, shared bedsit with two others - rent 4/18 wages - return home train fare was often dearer.

Returned to family business after year of being bored out of my tiny.

Married, mortgage consumed one full wage.

Eventually self-employed for ten years during which I had one three-day holiday and not a day off.

Back to school for a year, college for five years, working away but will probably retire end of school year. 50 years of running to stay still catches up with you.

We wanted for nothing because we wanted nothing.

Never had a new bike, one car per house hold (lucky), council houses.

Fing idiots today want it all. Two foreign holidays, two cars, two kids, 4-bed semi, American fridgefreezer, dining out, nice wine and the occasional show/shopping trip as a reward.

Funding support of every fing disablement known to man is pure insanity even if half the diagnoses were true.

Fair Deal scheme is theft of public funds.

Health service is beyond a joke as is CIE, VEC, or any semi-state you care to mention. Because that is how humans function collectively. Everywhere.

You think it's better elsewhere?

Get up off your arse and have a look you whiny bunch of fing milksops!

maninasia

What a nice fellow you are Victor Meldrew watch out .

AMERICAN fridge freezer you say.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309567#Comment_121309567

No worries.

I'm in my mid-thirties, single with no children so I could relocate to pretty much anywhere. I'm also feeling the need to find somewhere to call home if that makes sense. My issue is that my current skillset is only really useful in the "Golden Triangle" of Oxford, Cambridge & London. I've been thinking of doing some sort of online bootcamp in something like data analytics but they're a bit pricey and I don't know how I'd stack up against the tens of thousands of graduates entering the job market annually.

I'd happily leave academia though. I love my job but, as you've correctly observed, it's a dead end one with no progression. There's stuff in the private sector and plenty of it in this area. I've saved a decent few bob as well but I need to decide where I want to go. My last foray into the private sector was a bit of a disaster (wrong skillset but hired anyway) and that's made me averse to it which is of course my problem.

crusd

An adequate tax on the product of labour is what is needed, but a global approach is needed. The productivity of the average Irish worker is among the highest on the planet yet the value generated by this goes largely onto the balance sheets of large corporations and share price and dividends of investors. The balance on the value between labour and capital has been massively skewed over the part 40 years and a reset is required.

If only there was a political party that had recognition of the value of Labour as its supposed raison d'etre.

joseywhales

I have a state pension(cpp/ss) in Canada and US, I'll probably move back to ireland too, I'll have about 10 years in each country. It's an absolute disaster to resolve, they don't allow you to transfer credits or whatever, you have to take a tiny pension in each jurisdiction and then pay withholding tax where you don't reside and income tax where you do. Nomadic worker's interests are not exactly well represented. Anyway Im lucky that I can put away 20% a year into various tax deferred retirement plans, so I should not be dependant on any pensions. People need to be aware that there might be no safety net and poverty and old age is absolute misery.

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309513#Comment_121309513

There's a lot of anger there, directed at a lot of people. You could probably narrow down that anger from an entire generation to a much smaller subset.

The next time I'm collecting the kids from school I'll let the huge group of boomers have a piece of my mind. I will try to do so before their grandchildren are there. Wouldn't want to upset the kids or get in the way of the boomers having to mind their children's children.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309826#Comment_121309826

That sounds like a mess, frankly. It's one of the reasons I want to stay in the UK as I've been here over 10 years.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309815#Comment_121309815

However since productivity is calculated based on GDP, this productivity of the Irish worker is distorted upwards by the multinationals themselves which run profits through Ireland for tax purposes.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309838#Comment_121309838

Ok. If that's what you want to do, it's nothing to do with me.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310008#Comment_121310008

Agreed.

I think we need to start taxing capital and wealth. Returns on these are outpacing those on labour and it's creating a serious disparity which is undermining the social contract IMO.

dickdasr1234

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309622#Comment_121309622

Not to mention, 2 iPads, Xbox, 60" SmartTV, phones for everyone, Netflix, Disney+, Skyports, Lazyboys and, I'm sure, a few other must haves without which one would be designated on the poverty line.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309929#Comment_121309929

Irelands GNP is still among the highest. And either way whether its the product of the Labour of Irish workers or overseas workers, its value generated by Labour that is advantaging the suppliers of capital disproportionately.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310309#Comment_121310309

I don't have any of these save for a phone I bought in 2017 on the cheapest contract possible.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310274#Comment_121310274

100%. Labour is taxed higher as if it was dishonourable to sell your labour for money. Unearned wealth is taxed less as if it was virtuous to live off money you didnt have to actually work for.

In any case, the population has grown over time without the will to grow the infrastructure along with it. Now we're experiencing the consequences of that policy. There's no way pensions will be waiting for my generation at 65.

If youre retired, enjoy your pension and your leisure time. Maybe acknowledge that the young people are paying for your retirement and they will never have a retirement of their own. Maybe even consider being grateful (Joke. I would never expect old people to be grateful)

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310309#Comment_121310309

I love this. Can you even get a non smart TV nowadays? Should we all go out to fancy retro shops and buy a boxy cathode ray tube TV?

I got my TV on Facebook marketplace when the old one broke. In fact the only thing from either of your lists that I have is a netflix subscription.

Funny one. I heard an old person doing the same old person skit you're doing, on the radio and said young people should save money by cancelling netflix and go to the cinema instead. Clueless, but very confident.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310333#Comment_121310333

Productivity in based on the value of goods sold.

We manufacture high margin products and provide high margin services, by virtue of the MNCs that are based here.

The average Irish worker is no more productive than any other western world worker.

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310609#Comment_121310609

Virtue or fairness, has nothing to do with it. It's basic power. Try to increase inheritance tax and see how much power you will have in politics, you will literally get death threats and be pilloried in the media.

You are of course correct. Ironically, even from a capitalist perspective, resources should flow to the most productive people. It breaks meritocracy, it makes the economy less efficient and last but least, it is also unfair.

There is a balance of course, if you take everything from inheritance you remove all incentive for productive and responsible management of assets near end of life. But we are nowhere near the proper balance.

spaceHopper

They make it harder and harder to afford a place to live and raise a family. The result is people have fewer children and they will be lifelong renters. But otherwise in good health because they banned cheap booze and sugary drinks, made public transport so Sh1t and getting a driving license so difficult that everybody walks. Tada now you've nobody to pay into the pension pot and everybody is drawing from it.

endacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309850#Comment_121309850

Are you aware that if you return to Ireland to work, you can continue to pay contributions in the UK, and be eligible for both an Irish and UK state pension?

maninasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310609#Comment_121310609

Capital gains is what, 33% . 40% on foreign funds . 20% if non resident on property income. An Irish resident company is liable to corporation tax at 12.5% on its trading profits, 25% on passive income and 33% on capital gains.

Well it's certainly lower than workers on high salaries but then you get hit with tax on your investments so it's hard to win in Ireland. Only one that doesn't get taxed much is the investment in your own home and your pension contributions.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121313039#Comment_121313039

Barely. Thanks for the tip!

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121313376#Comment_121313376

Which of those passive incomes is taxed at a higher rate than a person selling their labour if they income is more than €40,000?

If its so hard to win by investing, then those people could try, god forbid, working for a living.

Are you seriously suggesting its too hard for people with wealth to simply live off investments without haveing to get a job?

I'm sure I've picked you up wrong so tell me what you actually mean.

dickdasr1234

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310386#Comment_121310386

Congratulations

maninasia

When I don't disagree with a lot of what your saying clearly not everybody is sitting at home doing nothing.

For instance you may have noticed a massive uptick in swimming in lakes and the ocean in Ireland and water sports in Ireland, right?

Cycling is also quite popular. Hiking is popular.

Some people are paying more attention to their health now even if there are still way too many takeaways in Ireland.

maninasia

I am totally in agreement that income from labour shouldn't be taxed more than profit from investments . There's something very wrong about that in my book. Why should you pay more tax the harder you work. Doesn't make sense. Broadly companies don't pay higher tax rates the more money they earn . Why is it people do?

That's something that needs to be debated instead of mouthing ' rich ' need to pay while a company only pays 12.5% tax on profits.

I don't think anybody should be taxed unreasonably.

My problem is your PAYE worker ( the 40k plus crowd who pay almost all the income tax) is also getting taxed heavily AGAIN on investments they make for themselves . Your DIRT, your 40% tax on ETFs deemed disposal, 33% capital gains tax, which is frankly insane, these taxes are not helping 'labour ' either .

I mean how are you supposed to get ahead then , and why is the government making standard investment vehicles like ETFs so bloody difficult to access when it would actually benefit everybody.