Outside blocks

K.G.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121356441#Comment_121356441

We can do that.wagon will hold almost 2 zeros of grass but you have to be aware of grass fresh weight.we tend to mow headlands into a triple swath and front mower the middle as you loose a bit on the corners with the front mower.it wouldn't work as well as a zero grazer in poor conditions but we tend to zero when conditions are suited and not when they are poor. We might almost fully feed the cows with zero for a few days rather than thinking in terms little bit every day

Mooooo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121355665#Comment_121355665

Best bet is prob do the numbers on it first. Be sure to put in a figure for your own time as well as machinery purchase / running costs.

Have a neighbour who used to zerograze a lot, went thru a couple of machines at it and is a machinery man but they have job gone to nearly all bales bar a bit of zerograzing at the shoulders. The zerograzing just took too much time out of the day whereas at least with the silage it was made and could be fed out whenever. Obv a bit of work in drawing it back etc but like that it wasn't every day.

Trial a bit with a contractor, maybe even time the loads etc and see how it goes. If it works out only for the shoulders of the year may as well get contractor at it if they can as spring will be busy anyway and it will reduce housed workload at year end. That 2 hours could be with the family, social side, etc as opposed to other jobs too.

Same money one would cost could be put into the yard as well if need be? That tends to be the case here anyway always something more pressing to be sorted.

mahoney_j

Plough and power harrow. 120/acre

sowing 90/acre

seed/spray/plastic(new bio degradable) 490/acre

harvesting 170/acre

feetliser /slurry. 7 k slurry over 2 splits …..2 bags 0 7 30 2 bags urea

contractor cost 15 euro per acre for chemical

70 euro per hour for shoe/trail slurry (cost per acre worked out at 75

chemicsl fertiliser depends on when you bought it

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213593#Comment_121213593

Z grazing wet grass has frig all feeding ….good quality silage trumps it

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354903#Comment_121354903

Whatever you do don’t buy a z grazer ….aim for multi cut silage and maize /wholecrop instead ….wet soft grass ain’t good feeding and leads to a lot of compaction

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121355094#Comment_121355094

Why not ….straight making very legitimate point …cutting back few cows and simplifying things isn’t defeat ….saw it here when my dad had to step back his workload and the shiny ambitions I had changed for the better when I stopped trying to follow all the poster boys in the journal etc …far more to life than cows

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121357558#Comment_121357558

Would agree re heavy covers 2000 plus, but fresh 20 day round 1400 ha/dm grass zero-grazed in cows prefrom really well on even when wet, you obviously need a 2-4kgdm of a fibre source going in to counter-act stomach issues

What I was most impressed with was when I started going with fairly pokey slurry spread with the moschia their was no rejection of the zero-grazed grass on a 20 day round, when you do the sums say your bring in 2 ton of d.m a load contractor 85 euro a load / 60 euro slurry and fert and 40 euro for the time spent putting it in, your taking 85-95 euro per ton of d.m, a silage/whole-crop/maize mix will be costing you over 200 per ton of dm

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121357709#Comment_121357709

It’s the complication and extea balancing and work z grazing brings puts me off …then throw in soil compaction and heavy rake off of nutrients …..I’ve 16 acres of red clover I’d planned to z graze ….ground too wet and even if I waited for ground to dry out I’d still do damage ….sheep going to clean it now

most dairy lads z graze in spring and back end bringing in wet low dm grass …hard on cows feet and unless balancing that with fibre it’s strip condition off cows ….I’ve found good quality bales at back end leaves cows far more content

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121357582#Comment_121357582

I’ve no need to cut back cow numbers. I have the land. I’m making money and I have a good young guy milking and doing odd days here and there when I need him. I’m better set up now than I’ve ever been with less cows

im finished till the afternoon since 10 am and dad wasn’t out with me at all this morning.

my idea is to get back to a more grass based system. I know it will bring extra work load but i think I’ll be okay with that.

ive talked to numerous lads now. 2 have cows in full time and they have no issue with bringing in wet grass

K.G.

Just to give a bit of framework to the debate we ll use as an example a farmer milking 100 cows and a 20block near him has come available .his heifers and silage is already sorted and his cows throw 5000 litres a year.he s debating buying a zero grazer and milking an extra 20 cows.

The extra 20 cows will generate 100k litres which we ll say 36 k euro.

My stab at it is roughly 180 loads off the 20 acres over the year which would be @ 80 euro a load 13.5k

Rent 7.5 k

Fert 3 k

Reseeding/lime 1.5 k 1 year

Slurry spreading we ll say 100 loads over the year at 75 hr is 3.5 k roughly so that's costs I make it of 29 k so you have a gm of 7 k on those 20 cows.the next question what would be the capital costs of those 20 cows.feel free to disect the figure's

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121357774#Comment_121357774

You obviously have a well functioning ship purring along nicely …..z grazing is def not something I’d be going into any way lightly …the workload will be more than you think then tgeres the running costs beteween the z grazing itself and slurry and despite what u think z grazing will bring complications to cows through feet issues and balancing things up with extra fibre which u will need if u remember roger barkley ran a z grazing system and within 2 years he moved away from it back to multi cut silage etc and got far better results

ive a neighbour with his own z grazer cutting 3 loads min most days you’d be dizzy looking at him on road with grazer ,slurry tank and feet spreader….

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121357899#Comment_121357899

He also went robots and pulled the pin on working their altogether as his workload got out of hand altogether then...

Was madness with the type of cow he had breed trying to get so much dm intake from zero-grazing in the 1st place....

Fully agree you would almost need half a labour unit extra to run the zero-grazer and all the fert/slurrying that it entails, utter madness for a one man band

1848

Do a profit monitor on your current operation to see how efficient you are before considering taking on extra land etc.

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121357899#Comment_121357899

Definitely accept it will take up time but I really feel it will suit our cows. We’ve a nice sized cow that’s bred for %s and can do over 6500 l

with the extra silage the last few years out protein has dropped from a yearly av in 21 of 3.86 to bring 3.76 this year. Even though we’re making really good silage. We took 4 cuts of silage off one block this year

tbf I don’t think roger was profit driven. He had it in his head how it was going to work and that was it. And the end of it roger was given one year to get the place profitable and he couldn’t do it

the tillage operation on the farm was making as much money as the cow side. That tells you all you need to know about how it was there

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121358121#Comment_121358121

I’d bet your kgms sold is gone up tho as have ypur litres ….ypur also stocked higher now and buffer more often through year ….this year was just a pig so wouldn’t base much on if

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121358121#Comment_121358121

What way is that place now, what system are they trying to do,you wouldn't hear alot about it, since he left...

awaywithyou

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121358121#Comment_121358121

is that story about Roger true??

your protein has dropped as the cows arent getting enuf energy....

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121359153#Comment_121359153

Yes. it’s fairly common knowledge. Don’t want to be running someone down but that’s what happened

Cappaquinn estate brought in a few advisers to see what they were going to do.

They’d have been broke if they had to pay for any land etc

yeah you could be right about the lack of energy. But any time they were short grass we were feeding really good bales of proper silage- wouldn’t all have been surplus paddock bales

gone from 800 kgs to 1.3t meal also so I wasn’t pinching them

they have gone up in milk solids- will do somewhere near 580 this year but if I could have herd the protein those kgs would be worth more

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121359221#Comment_121359221

Dilution effect ….still excellent % and nothing shabby about 580 kgms …..

heard different reasons aa to why roger left ….would the estate of backed him with the huge investement in robots if they didn’t see it as a sound investement ….maby roger didn’t feel valued …..he put huge hours in there over and above his pay packet …..know little about place now or what’s going on but very much doubt they would of got someone with the knowledge or want to make that system work

Anto_Meath

I know nothing about dairy cows or milking them. But I have heard a theory lately than feeding zero grazed grass to cows actually increases the risk of TB. Seemingly if an infected badger pisses on a section of grass this then gets mixed with a load of grass and is eaten by a number of cows. Thus increasing the risk of the disease spreading to more animals. I know 1 dairy farmer who is fully zero grazing who has had a number of TB out breaks in recent years and each of them have involved large numbers of cows going done on each test.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360743#Comment_121360743

Neospora is another risk

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360743#Comment_121360743

TB is a disease of intensification. Zero grazing herds are generally reasonably intensive. The larger the herd and the tighter they are in a shed, the bigger the outbreak.

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362157#Comment_121362157

It can be down to the vet too. We had a young vet from another practice test heifers in the contract rearers herd and she put 2 down as doubtfuls

my own vet was bulling when we rang him. He went down and looked at them himself and said there was no way he would have put them as doubtfuls

we just took it on the chin and killed them

awaywithyou

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360760#Comment_121360760

happened to a farmer i know... took land for zero grazing belonging to a guy with greyhounds.... at least 20 out of 100 cows got it

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362298#Comment_121362298

Pardon my ignorance here, but have you any comeback in those cases?

There was a farmer not far from me questioned a new vet's decision years back and called his boss in the Dept looking for him to be sacked. The new vet had found lumps on six of the farmers cows.

The Dept sent out an older vet and he was nervous about it coz he knew the farmer in question. Thankfully, he said, the lumps on the cows were like footballs at that stage and there was no questioning it.

This isn't the result you'd want but I thought you'd at least have some comeback to question a vet's decision?

mr.stonewall

@GrasstoMilk I have been following the thread for a few days and thinking a bit of how I might respond to it. I'm a bit similar to you in age and a young family and a love of farming. But part time and at the beef game.

Being critical friends here, most want to help, by picking holes in the best of our plans. This forces us to step back and think and ultimately it helps us make the best decision for our farms.

Looking at all farms, the most important piece of stock or machinery is the farmer themselves. They drive the vision of the the farm, by the their everyday actions.

As i type this, I'm just finishing up the evening foddering after putting all the smallies to bed. Over the past few years time has been the biggest thing that will drive profitability, whether that's reducing the cost of labour or the amount of labour. This career is not a sprint, it's a marathon, its all about minding the body. Farmer in the past have not been good at this but we have a new young generation of farmers who value this. Its about having the time to switch off, it could be go to kids matches go to a run or a few pints with the buddies.

You are lucky and blessed to have you father wishing to work along side you daily doing what he chooses, long may it continue, but simplifying you system should be key. Adding a zero grazer to the system is not going to do that. Well done on getting your herd to where it's at and the production figures you have are not to be sniffed at.

I type this after listening to the latest episode of the dairy edge, and this was the poke that I needed. It contained some key messages for all farmers, but it's very worthwhile to this discussion. Marginal milk, what it costs to produce with imported feed, be that meal, maize, silage of rented ground or even zero grazing off an outblock. The most profitable milk will be the milk produced from grazed grass. Why with not mechanised, mechanised feed has a time and a physical cost. I would recommend all farmers have a listen over the coming days

Please take your time to mull over the idea of the zero grazer fully. All investments should start with a simple question, is it going to make my life easier and save me money daily.

older by the day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121364738#Comment_121364738

That's beautiful. Most of us are thinking the same. But for feck sake let grasstomilk buy the zero grazer and try it out. You can sell it again if it doesn't work. It might be handy for a bit of extra grass in spring and autumn.

We can't judge farming by 2022 or 2023, milk could be over 60c next October and dry grass in every field.

Sher if some fellow didn't chance making silage sometime we would all still be pulling bundles of hay from the reek now

GrasstoMilk

Thanks for your posts lads

I appreciate everyone’s opinion be they good or bad I just don’t like negativity. Maybe it’s just the way a posts comes across etc. I have a fair few friends who wouldn’t shy away from telling me to cope on either and me the same

yes certainly lots to think about and mull over and I listened to the dairy edge podcast too.

very lucky to have dad here to be able to chip in and help keep things on the straight and narrow, also very lucky I have a wife who is very interested and will happily milk or do errands when ever she’s able

we also got an au pair this year and it’s been a complete game changer for us. Has taken so much stress out of the equation. There’s someone there for the kids all day long

there is no decision made yet but from any of the figures I’ve done they stack up if I can get back in meal fed and hold milk solids and cut out a lot of the silage feeding in the the grazing season. The biggest hurdle to get over is the time element and the wear and tear on tractors and machine

at the end of the day we all need to make a decision on how had we want to work and how much we want to achieve and how quickly we want to get there

GrasstoMilk

Cynical me also looks at that podcast of teagasc and thinks “all there research was geared towards us stocking our farms at 2.7 and now they’re covering they’re asses by saying those of us that achieved it were stocked too high “ 🤔🤔

might be the case for a some bit not all

K.G.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121366379#Comment_121366379

Your case is the very reason I started this thread and I too am giving alot of thought as to what is the next step