Dodgy Business Practice

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213389#Comment_121213389

Agreed. This is also why we have a government and state bureaucracy that is replete with worthless individuals who continually adopt and enact policy that is deleterious to Ireland's future. Then again, what is it that's said about a a country getting the government that it deserves?

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213389#Comment_121213389

Let them away with what? The estate agent's job is to get the maximum amount of money for their client.

An estate agent that rejects bids because they came in after some arbitrary time wouldn't be acting in the interest of the people paying them.

You could have won that bid at 4:59pm, but nobody is compelled to end the process there. The vendor could have accepted another bid at 5:30. They could have accepted another bid a week later. They aren't obliged to sell to you. They could change their mind and decide they aren't happy with what you were offering.

You were outbid, that's all that happened here. In future, you need to realise that bidding won't end until there's only 1 bidder left standing, and that only happens when everyone else has run out of money.

Fylime

Who was outbid?

Max bid by 5pm close.

So you think it's unethical for the estate agent to take max bid by 5pm close, as agreed.

But ethical that they turn off a bidding when it suits them, so the winner is the person who had the bid in when they decided to stop it?

No wonder we are in the position we are all in with estate agents.

Fylime

Not allowing equal time between each bids/equal time between counters. The estate agent decides she's happy with that price and stops!!!

brokenbad

Sounds like a classic case of what's known as "Gazumping".....almost like an eBay auction where strategically timed bids are placed in the dying seconds of the auction to run down the clock before the other bidder has a chance to counter bid.

It was unscrupulous on the part of the auctioneer to make you do this - but the bottom line for him is to get the highest price = higher commission.

It's frustrating that the auctioneering business in this country is not transparent or properly legislated - you always hear of these stories and other such as "phantom bids" and fake "counter offers" which drive up the price of a house.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213576#Comment_121213576

They can take max bids until whenever they want, it's up to the vendor really.

They could accept another bid a month from now if the vendor decides so.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213646#Comment_121213646

It's worse. On ebay, bids are binding, and the auction ends at the allotted time. Indeed, if the winner of the auction fails to produce the funds, they get a black mark against them. There is more oversight to someone's buying junk on ebay than if one were to attempt to buy property on a cowboy site like auctionera.

1874

OP, what you see here is that rules to prevent prices going astronomical are thin on the ground here, if even existent at all (easily sidelined or you are out of the running) and that our powers that be (Politicians) have little to no interest in doing anything about it or any concern as to the financial pressure this places homebuyers/owners under, in particular new entrants to the market, or how this affects or causes problems for the Country as a whole.

We really need a system where there is a sealed bid system or a defined date for submission of bids and other concerns around buying/selling property more like Scotland or NZ and more scrutiny over who is bidding being recorded and possible to check. At the very least, there to be a discussion around it and changing to a more sustainable system that doesn't lead to a bubble and a burst, as pushing prices astronomically only suits a small number of people (not really even sellers if they want to buy somewhere else themselves, as they will just be subjected to the same nonsense). I dont even think it really benefits Estate agents as the additional value to them on say an increase of 25 or 50k is only 250-500, when they could have more turnover if prices were lower and there was more robust controls over house prices.

As it stands we have a virtually unregulated free for all where checks and balances to prevent a completely uncontrolled system existing aren't present. Likely someone will row in a criticise my comments as you were when it appeared you were suggested to be post count building (for god knows what reason?).

Buying a house in Ireland is more akin to getting into an Octagon to fight it out with other buyers, with a vicious free for all with no referee, the last person/party standing wins, no matter the damage to their finances or future.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213605#Comment_121213605

The estate agent didn't stop, you did.

ForestFire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213714#Comment_121213714

Has the EA stopped, with the calls and texts?

EA probably told the other party that the OP was not happy/clear on the rules, and she's proposing another auction between the 2 of them again....you know because the first didn't meet her target....

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213646#Comment_121213646

Ebay auctions you place a max bid and it auto bid incrementally. It’s not possible to swoop in and take some with good timing, unless you bid a higher max.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213576#Comment_121213576

You were outbid. That’s pretty clear.

The request was final offer by 5pm Friday. If everyone stuck that it would have been settled by 5pm.

But both parties continued to bid after 5pm, so the agent accepted them - as they should on behalf of the client.

You keep saying they should have closed bidding promptly at 5pm. But it wasn’t an auction. If both sides keep bidding, then they be accepted. FWIW ”by 5pm Monday” more of a “close of business” thing than a strict 5pm imo.

Fylime

Incorrect.

Opened Friday, to close Monday 5pm.

If our max offer at 16:59 extended the bid, because the estate agent decided to treat the private treaty like an auction even though it wasn't an auction, at least give both parties the same timing rules in between counters. We had max bids throughout, with tiny increasing increments from the other party. We increased by a further €3,000 and the estate agent waited for 10 minutes... What... Hoping the other party would realise it wasn't closed.....?? Do you honestly think we were going to wait around for the estate agent to continue that bullshit for the rest of the night. Not a chance in hell. We still don't know whats happening but we don't want any part of it.

Stop adding to the problem.

Former Former Former

The estate agent cannot accept a bid, only the vendor can. The estate has to get a bid, give the other party a chance to counter, then go back to the vendor and ask if they're happy with the 'highest' bid. You expected all of that to occur in less than 60 seconds.

You're completely fixated on the fact that you placed a bid at 16.59 and that's your only reason for thinking you should have got it. That's not a reasonable position for a private treaty sale and you're only going to upset yourself more by holding on to it.

But look, you set a max price for yourself, when the bidding went above it you dropped out - every 'expert' will tell you that's exactly what you should do so this isn't a bad outcome.

herbalplants

Nobody is doing anything about estate agents in this country, they don't seem to be properly regulated.

Fylime

The estate agent wasn't going to the vendor, what are you talking about. This wasn't the private treaty sale you think it is.

Fylime

We didn't drop out when max bid was reached... Again what are you talking about?

Fylime

Nobody is doing anything about estate agents in this country, they don't seem to be properly regulated... 👍👍👍👍

It's not that difficult to follow similar auction type rules. It would keep everything fair, transparent and stop the estate agent essentially choosing the price and the purchaser of the houses, based on them stopping a bid when it suits them. Allow the same amount of time between each counter and if no counter after a certain amount of minutes.... Well then that's it.

But no, it's absolutely shocking the bullshit that goes on.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213962#Comment_121213962

From your OP;

A few hours later we received a formal email from the estate agent with a link to open the private treaty bidding link and to submit our offer

The estate agent CANNOT decide that a bid will be accepted, only the seller can do so. The EA is obliged to pass all bids on and that's it. Their only obligation is to the seller, they have literally no contractual or other duty to the potential buyers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213970#Comment_121213970

"Again", from your own posts:

we submitted our max bid ie what we wanted to pay for the house, 

and then

 panicked putting in another bid at 17:03

and then you dropped out.

You're complaining about a lack of regulation but you haven't identified a single thing the EA has done wrong.

Dav010

I suspect the op is confusing consumer and property law.

Op, even if the online bidding ended at 5pm on the day as indicated it would, until the contracts are signed both the buyer and seller are free to pull out of a private treaty sale. So even if you could legally have your bid acknowledged as the “winning bid” at 5pm, the seller is not bound to selling to you. So I’m not sure how the bidding/time limit could be seen as unlawful.

Look, everyone knows that both buyers and sellers put time limits on bids, but they mean nothing, the seller, and the EA who acts for them will not stop the bidding at precisely 5pm as long as bidding continues. If you put yourself in the sellers shoes, would you turn down a higher bid just because it came in a few mins after the deadline? No.

Fylime

If you put yourself in the sellers shoes, would you turn down a higher bid just because it came in a few mins after the deadline? No.

My point is that there should be rules, just like all online auction platforms.

L1011

This thread is going in circles now.