Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121725579#Comment_121725579

Even if the Tweet is somehow fake, or whatever it is you are trying to imply, the IDF are actually engaged in ethnic cleansing or genocide. The mass destruction of Gaza would kind of suggest that but work away.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121725055#Comment_121725055

You missed this bit:

"Partition was accepted by the Jewish leadership, but rejected by Palestinian Arab leaders and the Arab states.[20] This phase of the war is described by historians as the "civil", "ethnic" or "intercommunal" war, as it was fought mainly between Jewish and Palestinian Arab militias, supported by the Arab Liberation Army and the surrounding Arab states. Characterised by guerrilla warfare and terrorism, it escalated at the end of March 1948 when the Jews went on the offensive and concluded with their defeating the Palestinians in major campaigns and battles, establishing clear frontlines."

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121725336#Comment_121725336

All grist to the ICJ mill.

Timberrrrrrrr

"This is why Israel wants to stop UNRWA, they refuse to silently accept the genocide. "

https://twitter.com/BeckettUnite/status/1754578241073848608?t=f9enCHOhZjmsb8OSx6kCrg&s=19

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121725587#Comment_121725587

Even if the Tweet is somehow fake, or whatever it is you are trying to imply, the IDF are actually engaged in ethnic cleansing or genocide. The mass destruction of Gaza would kind of suggest that but work away.

This has not been proved.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121725611#Comment_121725611

From the very same paragraph you missed this.

"Partition was accepted by the Jewish leadership, but rejected by Palestinian Arab leaders and the Arab states.[20] This phase of the war is described by historians as the "civil", "ethnic" or "intercommunal" war, as it was fought mainly between Jewish and Palestinian Arab militias, supported by the Arab Liberation Army and the surrounding Arab states. Characterised by guerrilla warfare and terrorism, it escalated at the end of March 1948 when the Jews went on the offensive and concluded with their defeating the Palestinians in major campaigns and battles, establishing clear frontlines."

Every historian will accept that it was the Arabs who started the 1948 war.

To say otherwise is just another bit of fake news and misinformation.

Also

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/arab-israeli-war#:~:text=Fighting%20began%20with%20attacks%20by,%2C%20settlements%2C%20and%20armed%20forces.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121725112#Comment_121725112

If you believe that Iran cannot be dealt with (and to some extent you're right) then you are conceding that peace is not possible as Iran are supreme troublemakers in the region, funding a variety of proxies all over the Middle East.

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121725751#Comment_121725751

They're literally driving them out of large parts of Gaza and then destroying those areas along with killing a substantial section of the population. But yeah, nothing to see here - happens everywhere.

dmcdona

Interesting updates from Haaretz.

Yair Lapid's offer of support in relation to releasing the hostages will undoubtedly because Ben-Gvir will throw his toys out the pram.

14-year old shot dead in West Bank.

In view of recent discussions here, the quote from Alon Pinkas (Israeli diplomat and writer) regarding Iran is interesting. More on him shortly.

• HOSTAGES/CEASE-FIRE: Hamas sources said that the group is still deliberating on the cease-fire and hostage-release deal proposal, and that they expect to give an answer on the matter soon.
• Opposition leader Yair Lapid met with PM Netanyahu and told him that his party will provide a safety net, meaning support in the Knesset against no-confidence motions, in favor of a deal to release the hostages.
• Former Arab Israeli politician Azmi Bishara, who fled charges of espionage in Israel to live in Doha and is considered close to the Qatari government, told the Qatari news agency al-Arabi that the U.S. is trying to convince Hamas, through Qatari and Egyptian mediators, that Israel would be hard pressed to resume fighting in Gaza after a long truce. He added that Hamas will respond to the current proposal being discussed with multiple clauses, and not just a simple "yes or no."
• Five activists from Israel and the U.S. are holding a 36-hour fast near the Geneva HQ of the International Committee of the Red Cross, to raise awareness of the plight of the hostages.

"Iran is an excruciating paradox. On the one hand, it is a constant menace and threat, an effervescent agent of chaos capable of setting the Middle East ablaze. On the other, it is inherently a paper tiger. A dangerous tiger, but paper" – Alon Pinkas

• The Hamas-controlled Gaza Health Ministry said at least 27,478 Palestinians have been killed and 66,835 wounded since the war began.
• UN Secretary-General António Guterres announced that he established an independent review group led by former French Foreign Minister Catherine Colonna to assess the allegations made against UNRWA. Israel's foreign minister commended the decision, and said Israel will send "all evidence highlighting UNRWA's ties to terrorism and its harmful effects on regional stability."
• UNRWA's director of operations in Gaza, Thomas White, said a food truck about to move into the northern Gaza Strip came under IDF fire, without casualties.
• Gen. Frank McKenzie, former CENTCOM commander, described Israel's success in its objectives in Gaza to date as "very limited."
• At a meeting of his Likud party, PM Netanyahu said that "we must kill Hamas' leadership" and emphasized that the war cannot end before that happens. Reaching this goal will take time, he said, which he defined as "months and not years."
• National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir said that he hoped Netanyahu chooses the path of "crushing Hamas" and not "giving them fuel," as opposed to the "path of Lapid and Gantz," referring to Israel's opposition leader and war cabinet minister Benny Gantz.
• Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich criticized the U.S. administration's decision to impose sanctions against four Israeli settlers, saying that it punishes "over half a million settlers, law-abiding Israeli citizens now on the front lines of the war against terror."
• U.S. President Joe Biden privately referred to PM Netanyahu as a "bad fu**ing guy," according to people who've spoken with the president, Politico reported. The White House denied the report, which also claimed that Biden has "grown suspicious" of Netanyahu as the war continues, and that Biden's fear is that "Netanyahu is eager to drag the U.S. into a wider war in the Middle East."
• Israel Police said a 14-year-old Palestinian was shot dead after he tried to stab police officers in Al-Azriya village near East

dmcdona

Alon Pinkas, Israeli writer and Diplomat, wrote an essay:

"An Orgy of Jewish Supremacy and Antidemocratic Euphoria, Encouraged by Netanyahu"

Published in Ha'aretz, 29 January 2024

Proposed ethnic cleansing and Israeli resettlement of Gaza[edit]

The presence of 11 of the 37 cabinet ministers at a conference in January 2024 proposed Israeli resettlement of the Gaza Strip and coerced migration (i.e. ethnic cleansing) of Palestinians from there marked the elevation of the resettlement movement from the fringe of politics to what Pinkas wrote:

Even if you've seen one before, it's not the same. This was not a fringe opposition group: it was the government of Israel in all its political splendor, unabashedly showing its true colors. This was the governing coalition in an orgy of anti-state and antidemocratic euphoria.

Furthermore:

What you saw Sunday wasn't "Startup Nation" Israel. It wasn't "13 Nobel Prizes" Israel… It was not liberal-democratic Israel. What you saw was messianic ecstasy and religious fervor in a position of power… what you saw was not just the far-right elements… This is him. Unadulterated, unhinged Netanyahu, trying to distance himself far from the debacle of the October 7 massacre. This strain of religious-nationalistic Jewish supremacy has been normalized, legitimized, mainstreamed and encouraged by Netanyahu… What you saw was not merely a theocratic-fascist strain in Israeli society and politics but almost half of Mr. Netanyahu's coalition (27 lawmakers)…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alon_Pinkas

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121724414#Comment_121724414

But there is seemingly black and white when it comes to Iran. There is an inconsistency here, because it isn't just Qatar playing both sides of the street.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121725785#Comment_121725785

An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence:

Every historian will accept that it was the Arabs who started the 1948 war

Please provide a source or that statement is opinionated hyperbole, nothing more.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121725858#Comment_121725858

I don't think we can realistically compare Qatar with Iran? Qatar walks a fine line but tends towards the established order (much like Saudi Arabia).

Iran should be compared with Russia. Outcasts who wish to destroy the West.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121725858#Comment_121725858

But there wasn't just black and white: Obama had reached an agreement with them. Trump threw it out, and relations have got worse ever since. But it's not true that the US has always treated Iran as "just" black and white.

Timberrrrrrrr

5km long!

It's genocide.

https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1754598375129833846?t=-04g4pgQPFqYUai22fh7Lw&s=19

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121726154#Comment_121726154

We always frame this Iran discussion from the Western perspective.

It's much more illuminating to flip that question and ask 'what does Iran want?'. The answers are stark and almost beyond the comprehension of our secular mindset.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121724901#Comment_121724901

I take it you chose go ignore the rest of the post and focus on a point as to isolate it without context. Pretty sure thats called a Gish gallop.

Timberrrrrrrr

Israel-Gaza war: Unknown fate of six-year-old Hind Rajab trapped under fire

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68180642

"It was after dark when the ambulance crew - Yousef and Ahmad - notified operators that they were nearing the location, and were about to be checked for entry by Israeli forces.

It was the last operators heard from their colleagues - or from Hind. The line to both paramedics, and to the six-year-old girl they came to rescue, disconnected for good."

Timberrrrrrrr

How many times have we been told that the IDF are "The most moral army in the world"?

https://twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1754529319529976006?t=WMQtq9mhSHGvMO5HDq5rqw&s=19

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121726215#Comment_121726215

This is Israel's legacy - it will forever be remembered by the world and tarnish that nation with the utter shame of the word Genocide.

And they are not finished yet.

I only hope that those Israelis with a conscience (there are many) can rise up and end this horrific campaign. I hope the hostages are returned and that both the Israelis and Palestinians can reach a state where they can both live in peace and security.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121726594#Comment_121726594

Absolutely shocking and heart-breaking.

A poster said many posts ago that the IDF and Hamas are cheeks of the same a*se. So true.

This will be more grist to the mill for the ICJ and the ICC. Israel will be held accountable for what they have done.

Timberrrrrrrr

I'll say it again

It's genocide.

https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1754597440160706706?t=6sGJSesLL0fGELPW-EjEcA&s=19

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121726054#Comment_121726054

A fine line. ? They host Hamas leaders and allow them to fund raise for terrorist activity. The money for the October 7th attacks came from Qatar as much as anywhere else. And what do you mean by established order, those who decide what the rules based orders are, but are willing to infract them when it suits. Qatar should not be given a pass for funding terrorism because otherwise they are a great bunch of lads. I never thought I would agree with Bibi on anything but what he said about Qatar is correct.

beeker1

Nko it's not ! Hamas hide behind hospitals etc ! Margaret Hassan from Dalkey who gave her life to the benefit of Iraq's children had her throat cut by the same evil people you make a case for ! I've more in common with David than I ever will with evil Muhammad , 600 years after christ !

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121726154#Comment_121726154

I was referring to Raoul's equivocation about Qatar. There should be no shades of grey in our attitudes towards Qatar: they host Hamas leaders. I don't see how you condemn Iran for supporting terrorism and make excuses for Qatar because they happen to be an ally of the Americans

beeker1

Do you not read the papers??? Iran are the biggest exporters of terrorism ! Israel should have demolished their atomic capabilities a long time ago ! Iran'smantra is the annihilation of Israel ! As for those jokers who march down our cities main drag every week , Do they not realise that Muhammad advocates the stoning to death of our LGBTQ family members ! Never mind meeting you're mate for a pint !

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121726894#Comment_121726894

There's a lot I dislike about Qatar, so I don't know why you suggest I'm making excuses for them. Their treatment of migrant workers makes me suspect it's a selfish, self-centred society. A lot of Muslims I've met from around the world actively hate the natives of the various oil-rich countries of the Arabian Peninsula because of how they treat other Muslims from poorer countries.

Iranians I've met, on the other hand, have generally been highly educated and cultivated, and always polite, usually delightful people.

(This is obviously personal anecdote only - I'm aware that I've met only those Iranians who left the country, for starters. And while I'm sure some are horrible people, like everywhere, I've truly never met any.)

In geopolitical terms however, the Qatari regime is a lot more moderate than the Iranian regime. How genuine that "moderation" is, I couldn't possibly guess, but I think their desire to continue doing business is relevant. Iran probably feels its bridges are already burned so has nothing to lose.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121725795#Comment_121725795

Israel and Iran funded Hamas

The US funded Iraq

Russia funds Iran who supplied them with drones etc.

The US and Britain supply arms to Israel

Loads of countries involved with each other. Its not just Iran that can be blamed for destabilising the region. All about money, oil, arms and power.

https://merip.org/1983/02/arms-sales-and-the-militarization-of-the-middle-east/

beeker1

Iran & moderation are an oxymoron ! Honestly , mad mullahs that will stone you to death if you're lifestyle doesn't comply with their idea of morals ! Seriously , boards posters need a reality check , I've been warned about anti Islam posts when the truth is have they control , gay men & women would be thrown from the roof of the George and stoned to death ! Wear your keffir scarf but realise what it means !

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121725445#Comment_121725445

So who bombed the Ambulance HQ?