Would you resurrect a friendship, if their views and mindset have diverged strongly from your own?

Tork

It's possible you might be able to resurrect some sort of friendship with her but you're not getting your old friend back. Thankfully, I don't have any experience of losing friends to this extent but I have people in my circle who have gone down that road. The reason I know they have is because they're not slow about proclaiming their views when they have the chance. What people who are aware of their views do is tiptoe around the elephant in the room. They're careful not to bring up whatever issues will set them off. Even though Covid and discussion of it has gone away for normal people, some people's addiction to getting hot under the collar about it hasn't. The Coronavirus forum on boards is still on the go, though god only knows why.

As you've seen, your friend has moved on to the latest hot topics, as have many other people who used to get wound up about Covid. Many of the people outside the Dáil the other week started out protesting against the Covid measures. They can be found protesting in libraries, bookshops, refugee accommodation and pride events, depending on what way the wind is blowing. If something else comes on their horizon, they'll seize on that too. I noticed that your friend had been single until now. So for her, becoming part of this anti-everything tribe brought her fiancé into her life. Being with him will just reinforce her views.

By all means, meet her for a coffee if that's what you want to do. I don't know what sort of friendship you can have with her going forward from here though. I think it's safe to say that most of us have people in our lives who don't hold the same views that we do. The difference is, most people are respectful of other views and don't shove them down anybody's throat. Your friend was out at marches with a megaphone and isn't slow about proclaiming her views. She's a different kettle of fish.

CamillaRhodes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121201405#Comment_121201405

Lots of wisdom in this. thank you.

I've experienced something like this. Two of my childhood friends just dove head first into this nonsense. All they talk about is US right wing politics and conspiracies.

This went on for 3 or so years, non stop, messages on WhatsApp all day, every day. I asked them to stop and they would agree to and then a few days later it would resume.

As a consequence I had to cut them out of my life, despite knowing them since childhood.

I honestly think this behaviour is a form of psychological problem. It felt like they just couldn't help themselves, like a drug addict or something.

Anyway, to the OP, I think you're wasting your time tbh. Once people go down that rabbit hole there's no coming back. The person you knew is gone.

Dial Hard

Nope. I don't have to agree with my friends on everything - nor do I - but I simply couldn't be friends with a bigot. End of.

CamillaRhodes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204928#Comment_121204928

Thanks for sharing your experience; it's helpful to know someone who has confronted the same issue. It's interesting you mention psychological issues and addiction. This friend has battled a lot of mental health issues over the years, including a propensity to addictive-style behaviour (never been an alcoholic or drug addict, but been very into a number of other 12 step programmes wrt addictive behaviours.). It hadn't occurred to me that these two things could be connected, but you're so right, it dovetails with the vaguely obsessive / blinkered mindset which she has struggled with in other contexts. Thank you for connecting these dots for me.

It doesn't bode well, does it.

CamillaRhodes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204945#Comment_121204945

I guess a part of me was still hoping that she's not actually a bigot, that this is just a phase she needs pulling out from. I'm married to an immigrant. Two of her (former) best friends are gay men. One of her neighbours who she used to be close friends with first came to Ireland as an asylum seeker. I just can't believe that all these years she's been thinking these people - her neighbour, her friends, my husband - are awful and deserve the far right responses we're seeing today. I can't wrap my head around it. I guess in my heart, I'm trying to convince myself she's just going along with these narratives cos she went a bit nuts during lockdown (as many of us did) but then met a guy and this was the best thing that ever happened her, so she's playing along. But even as I type this, I realise how despicable this sounds. I think I'm answering my own question.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205986#Comment_121205986

I doubt very much that's what she thought of them all along, but if she's gone far enough down that rabbit hole that she's marrying someone with the same abhorrent views then I really don't think she's ever coming back.

I think grieve for the person you once knew, and be open to rekindling the friendship if she ever comes back from the dark side, but I wouldn't be counting on it and I wouldn't be waiting on her.

Tork

It's likely she held some bigoted views to begin with, but they got amplified. When I think of the people I referred to earlier, they had beliefs that may have sown the seeds for where they ended up. They were a bit conservative to begin with and had been politically active (anti-water charges, union activism type stuff). They also were into alternative medicine and were fad-eaters. They'd be the sort of people who'd go gluten-free even though they didn't need to. That doesn't mean that you'll end up as a Trump lovin', everything-phobic, anti-vax 9/11 truther but that's what happened here.

I think we're going to be picking up the psychological pieces from the Covid pandemic for a long time yet. While most people have moved on with their lives, there are casualties. One set of them is the people who found their tribe when they went online. Your friend seems to have been a bit adrift in life and this anchored her. If she continues to be very active online, it's going to be hard for her to wean herself off that. This sort of activism is addictive for some people and becomes part of their identity. She's also caught in a trap of her own making. Even if she starts to waver in some of these thoughts, it's bloody hard to roll back from them.

CamillaRhodes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121206285#Comment_121206285

"Your friend seems to have been a bit adrift in life and this anchored her."

You are 100% right about this, and I hadn't thought about it this way. Thank you.

CamillaRhodes

A massive thank you to everyone who replied to this thread. It has been profoundly helpful. x

moonage

The things your friend has issues with are often legitimate and can be quite nuanced but you just slap a "neo-nazi / far right" label on her.

You say she's anti-immigrant, anti-trans, anti-Pride etc but maybe her issue is with the government's policies on these matters rather than hatred of gays, trans or immigrants.

During covid she was critical of lockdowns, masks and vaccines; presumably you more or less went along with the whole thing. Looking back, she had the better attitude and was probably closer to the truth.

You think she's entered into a crazy, deluded, hateful world but perhaps she would say she's starting to look at things more critically and is seeing how the world really works, while you're stuck in your >>MOD EDIT TO REMOVE OFFENSIVE WORD<< world seeing everything from your >>MOD EDIT TO REMOVE OFFENSIVE WORD<< point of view.

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204945#Comment_121204945

This exactly my view also . So rather than write a long post about how all people diverge as they get older, etc etc . I couldn’t be friends with a bigot. Full stop .

plus if they change their mind on supposedly core values that easily they probably never had any to begin with.

Goldengirl

Agree with Tork's responses.

And without getting into the political side of this the issue is whether you or her will ever feel truly comfortable ie. not walking on eggshells around each other, or as it appears from what you say, you trying to appease her.

Thats no basis for a real friendship.

However I would feel uncomfortable about cutting her off based on her Twitter account and what others have said she has done.

Your relationship in the past deserves one more attempt surely, even to see if there is common ground at all. Be clear you don't want to get into a battle about views and politics and just want to catch up as friends.

Over the years some friends that you have more in common with can be to the fore more than others at a particular time.

Other times that can get to be boring .

I have had politically active friends on the other extreme.. very left.. who didn't ' fit' with either my oh 's views or my friends' at the time, but I still loved meeting them and I would just put my hands over my ears if they got a bit much and the conversation and chat would be pulled back to 'medium spicy' as opposed to hot!

It kept me up to date with what was going on in their lives and vice versa, and was refreshing if sometimes challenging.

I find that while they have moderated their views as they grew older and I have become a little more vocal we are still good friends and enjoy each other's company.

Nobody ever got offensive though.

But I have always had different groups of friends and thats the way I like it.

You might still love being with this old friend even if you don't agree on everything. Even just having a laugh.

I would be more suspicious as regards the person who tried to dissuade you from arranging a meeting . Are you next for the chop if they hear you met up??

Sounds a bit controlling, imo.

Friends don't have to agree on everything but expressing openly anti gay or anti migrant views to people who are gay or migrant is an obvious no no.

But even though you have argued in the past I srnse you are conflicted about cutting her out completely

Maybe your relationship is based on something other than your beliefs? Or as you have said you feel she may be under the influence of this group or her fiancé?

Make your own mind up about who you meet or not.. Nobody else's business.

Who knows your old friend might need somebody to reach out a caring hand to her at this time or in the future.

You don't have to sacrifice your own values and beliefs, just let her know you are still there if she needs a friend.

Edit .Been getting " Bad Gateway " since Thursday and tonight I didn't think this post was going to post !

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204945#Comment_121204945

^^ Nicely summed up. This would be my position too.

OP, I had to cut a friend off who went down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole. (Before Covid). Sometimes you just have to draw a line.

I personally wouldn't waste my time going for coffee with her, either, I think it would just be awkward, and her twitter will be on your mind the whole time.

Hannibal_Smith

Off topic side posts removed. Post above edited to remove offensive word. Posters are asked to offer constructive advice to an OP when replying to a thread.

HS

gormdubhgorm

It is funny I was only wondering to myself why women seem to really crave companionship and having 'great chats'. Now to my male ears watching women in the midst these 'chats' seemed to all about mannerisms and little cues rather than the actual content of the conversation itself. If female friends A and B were in mid conversation with female friend C. Suddenly when C leaves they discuss C, and analyse how they thought she was feeling.

It equally fascinated me and baffled me as male, as to me male companionship is completely different it is task driven - fixing something practical, or going to an event. Not discussion of themselves but events surrounding themselves - sports matches - DIY - family etc.

So I did an internet search on it.

https://www.dw.com/en/male-and-female-friendships-are-different-and-scientists-dont-know-why/a-62824177

Then I found an article about female friendships in female social circles, describing the benefits and so on.

https://www.healthline.com/health/womens-health/benefits-of-a-girlsquad-and-female-friendships

Apparently females are wired for it chemically. Companionship for women releases oxytocin which has a calming effect on women. Whereas men do not have much of this chemical they mostly have a flight or fight response when it comes to trouble. But women who are stressed seem to 'seek out' other women to 'fix' within a social support that is the gist I took from it anyway.

It is called the 'Tend and befriend theory'

https://taylorlab.psych.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2014/11/2011_Tend-and-Befriend-Theory.pdf

"Moreover, the biological underpinnings of the theory would appear to be more consistent with what is known about women’s hormonal profiles than men’s. For example, oxytocin’s effects are enhanced in the presence of estrogen"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWxzXI69dac

Then I opened boards I saw was the OP's post and by it's tone guessed the OP was female. And it seemed to fit exactly into what I had just searched.

My take on it is the OP is looking to (in her own mind) 'fix' her former friend through friendship, so that the OP can feel good about herself in the attempt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UiLOZqclSI

But I feel what the OP should be asking is her former friend happy where she is? (leaving the politics/personality traits out of it)

The former friend has a new life, new way of thinking, new husband, and permanent secure job. Maybe the OP should consider that her former friend is grand as she is?

And the impression I get is that the OP wants to attempt to rekindle the friendship not for her former friends benefit - but more for herself in some form of long since past 'emotional connection'. Or is it just curiosity?

However, I wonder if the OP's former friend is not too pushed about the friendship why, should the OP bother trying to crowbar herself back into her former friends life? The OP should ask themselves what are their own motives and what are they looking for by doing this?

It seems to me if women wanted to stay friends with each other they would make every effort to do so, because that is how women's social circles work. Tight knit emotional support networks. If women who were formerly great friends have lost complete contact for many years, it must be for a very good reason.

I would advise the OP to leave well enough alone.