Would you resurrect a friendship, if their views and mindset have diverged strongly from your own?

CamillaRhodes

A friend and I have known each other 20+ years, since college, and used to be incredibly close. She lives nearby, used to babysit my kids, was bridesmaid at my wedding: one of my very best friends in the world. We fell out during Covid - she became very anti-mask / anti-vaccine, and it started to bundle up with conspiracy theories (5G, Bill Gates, etc.) We had a big fight one night in a restaurant. Soon after that, she stopped replying to messages - we didn't see each other or communicate in any way for over 18 months. At the same time, she did the same to pretty much all our other friends from college - cut contact with everyone. Long story short, we subsequently found out at that time, she'd met a man and had fallen in love, for the first time really (she'd been unhappily single until then). He's also into the conspiracy theory / anti-vaxx groups etc. My former friend got *really* into it though, was up on stage with a megaphone talking at rallies.

Fast forward three years, and with a couple of light exchanges in between (which i won't go into to save time now) and Covid is pretty much over and I've been feeling like it's time to move on, life is too short to hold grudges over disagreements on social stuff. My former friend told me recently she got engaged to this man, and I want to be happy for her, offered to meet for coffee next week (to give her a wedding book, basically an olive branch).

But another mutual friend has just pointed out her Twitter account to me (I didn't know she had one until now). The Likes are all now classic far right stuff: Anti-Trans, Anti-Pride, Anti-Immigrant, as well as the covid / conspiracy stuff. It has really shocked me. This would be the diametric opposite of my own socio-political views, and previously her own too (our mutual friend is a gay man, who had been incredibly close to this woman for 20+ years too).

I am wondering whether I should still meet her for coffee and try to build bridges here, or does that somehow endorse or tacitly approve her views? I very much doubt she'll be open to discussions about these subjects, I could see it just becoming another fight with one of us storming out. Part of me is still so sad about losing my friend after half a lifetime. But another part of me thinks, this woman now is not the friend I used to know, and there's no basis for friendship left there.

I'm also mindful of not expecting that everyone I'm friends with should have to share my political views. I actually really enjoy a good political debate. But not in the neo-nazi / far right space. There has to be a line drawn somewhere. The rise of the far right here and in Europe is really terrifying me. I feel really yuck about my desire for friendship being mixed up with this rhetoric.

To make matters even more complicated, she's a teacher in my kids school, so there's a good likelihood of bumping into her semi-regularly.

What would you do? Meet her and try to build a bridge? Or cut my losses and recognise this friendship is over?

Augme

Why do you want to be friends with someone's who's on the far right? If you had mutual interest on the topics I could understand but you dodnt seem to. I'm struggling to understand what's so amazing about this friendship that makes you so eager to keep it in your life.

airy fairy

Cut your losses. Friendships aren't supposed to be hard work. You shouldn't have to bite your tongue and keep opinions to yourself and that's exactly what you are contemplating doing.

Being a teacher in your kids school is irrelevant. She will have to be professional in that matter.

Be pleasant if your paths cross, but let the rest go imo.

CamillaRhodes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121200372#Comment_121200372

Part of me feels like those views aren't who she really is, that she was just poisoned by the covid craziness. For more than 20 years, she was a sweet, open-minded, loving person who brought huge value and warmth to my life. Perhaps I'm just driven by nostalgia for someone who doesn't exist any more.

ballyargus

I wouldn't endorse "friendship" here - I have been through a similar scenario. The fact that she is a teacher in your kid's school means it's prudent to be cordial, but there was no need to offer coffee and think about olive branches in the form of wedding/engagement gifts.

She has been at the extremism juice and is clearly involved with someone who has either instilled or accelerated toxic views in her; there's no need to willingly welcome that s***e into your life.

Praetorian22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058317010/would-you-resurrect-a-friendship-if-their-views-and-mindset-have-diverged-strongly-from-your-own

It's easier to be nice I think.....all that other stuff uses up too much energy.

At the end of the day we're all going in the ground why can't we all just be civil and get along, leave all the other nonsense aside whether it's Alex Jones or Greta Thunberg.

What a colossal bore the world would be if we all liked the same things and had the same views. Yes there's a line those with a brain don't cross but unless your friend is dancing on the table top in TGI Fridays professing her affection for Pol Pot I'd at the very least extend the olive branch

CamillaRhodes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121200385#Comment_121200385

Maybe you're right. And i'm at the age where my circle of friends has tightened into those with whom we really do enjoy each others' company and share values, cos nobody has time to hang out with douchebags when juggling work and family life. I guess I still miss my old friend and want her back, but I guess i'm not getting her back.

suvigirl

It makes sense to be friends with people who's political views and moral views and views of the world are similar to our own.Who wants to live in constant hassle/disagreements with supposed friends?

Having said that, everyone is entitled to their views, and you are entitled to be friends with whoever you wish.

I don't think judging her based solely on her Twitter account is necessarily fair, people put all sorts of faces on for social media.

you know her for many years, why not meet for a coffee/chat & see how you get on? Just because you are polite and nice to people doesn't mean you endorse their views. If afterwards you feel she has changed too much, you don't have to be friends with her. You can be polite as you would to any teacher in your child's school.

CamillaRhodes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121200404#Comment_121200404

You may be right. I guess the friendship I was hoping for is with someone who doesn't exist any more.

CamillaRhodes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121200409#Comment_121200409

Thing is, I kinda know how it will go. We wont' talk about the hard stuff, it'll be chit chat. She knows my political views are the opposite of her (new ones), she won't bring it up. We've seen each other once or twice over the last year, but this was the first time I was thinking to make an effort myself. I think I'm changing my mind though.

CamillaRhodes

Is it worth trying to confront the far right stuff, in a letter maybe? Or not worth the effort?

I just can't believe my friend who used to have two very close gay friends is now Liking Anti-Pride content. It's such a huge change in personality.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121200436#Comment_121200436

What do the two gay friends say about it?

Are they still friends? Did they confront her?

CamillaRhodes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121200448#Comment_121200448

They have both cut her out of their lives entirely (and she, them). One of them was the person who pointed out her Twitter feed to me.

He is also sad for the loss of their friendship and in a way "mourning" her, but he cannot and will not reconnect with her because of these views. It was the discussion with him which prompted me to write this thread.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121200454#Comment_121200454

But was there any conversations between them? Did they ask her about her new views? Seems strange that people would be really close for years, but then just cut each other out of their lives?

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121200398#Comment_121200398

The other side is maybe this is now who she really is and for the previous 20+ years she never felt comfortable expressing her true feelings an opinions. Most people as they get older tend to feel comfortable in themselves and become more self-confident about who they really are. Also, most 20 who are 20 somethings will not express strong far right views in person, unless they want to be social outcasts and most 20 somethings don't want to be social outcasts.

Either way, I just don't really ever see the friendship being the same. Are you going to invite her to dinner parties, birthdays, have her integrate with your kids knowing what her views are like? I certainly wouldn't want someone like that in my life.

CamillaRhodes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121200465#Comment_121200465

Each of them independently had phone calls with her back during Covid, when her anti-mask extremism started (both of them currently live outside Ireland). After those phone calls, and having then seen some of the stuff that went on (she was up on stage with a megaphone at various anti-mask / anti-vaxx rallies, and videos of this did the rounds), they subsequently cut contact.

RoboRat

I have a mate who would be into right-wing stuff. Anti-mask, anti-vaccine, covid was a hoax, anti-government, anti-immigration, anti-LBGQ, quotes gript, and so on. I'm still friends with him but I don't share his views... I find them quite amusing as they're baseless and can be picked apart quite easily.

It's good to have a healthy diversity within your circle of friends as it keeps you grounded and sometimes you challenge and analyse your beliefs, even if they're right. If you just stick with people who share the same views, you create an echo chamber and that's not healthy.

If he starts going off on one, and I'm not in the mood or think it's too far over the edge, I just change the subject (Oh look, squirrel).

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121200483#Comment_121200483

Ok so they fell out with her over Covid views. Lots of people had differing views, I'm not sure I would lose a friendship over it.

Anyway, my advise stands, if you feel like it's worth a go, have a coffee, if afterwards you feel that you are just too different, you don't have to be friends.

j2

For me it would come down to whether or not they can manage to shut up about politics more so than what their beliefs are. I'm basically a melodramatic caricature of an evil far right maniac in terms of my beliefs, but I generally don't talk about it unless somebody is interested in a political discussion, and I certainly don't get agro with anyone over it. A lot of my friends are those sort of libs by default types, in that they don't really think about politics all too deeply and sort of absorbed a broadly libby worldview from their environment by osmosis, as is the case with most people really. I even have a few out of control true believe type libs who are friends, and guess what? We don't talk about politics and we get along fine.

I'd have more difficulty hanging out with an evil right wing guy who won't stop talking about it than I would with a lib who doesn't bring up politics. It seems like your friend might be in the category of individuals who have a very hard time getting away from the political side of things, so you might get your head wrecked hanging out with them. She may be in that phase which a lot of people go through when they develop a new perspective, that of the zealous convert. It's something akin to the new atheist who can't stop bring their lack of belief in God into every unrelated discussion.

I'd also add that it sounds like she has developed some good opinions during this process, but that's neither here nor there from the point of view I'm taking for this subject.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121200398#Comment_121200398

It is very difficult to come back from the dark side. You just need to look at Darth Vader. Obi Wan and Vader would hardly meet up to discuss shared interests, he was too far gone and Vader hadn't even gone as far as believing in chemtrails!

YellowLead

Personally I would not be friends with somebody with those views. They would be the polar opposite of what I value. It’s just a totally different mindset and way of viewing the world that I have no respect for, and if there’s no respect there’s no friendship.

But I don’t think any of us can really answer this for you because we are not you, and this comes down to your own preferences over you choose to spend time with.

CamillaRhodes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121200481#Comment_121200481

Those are great points, neither of which I had thought of. Thank you.

CamillaRhodes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121200516#Comment_121200516

Right, so this is something I kinda felt too; i don't want to create an echo-chamber for myself. But where do we draw the line? Others in this thread have called out that friendship shouldn't be hard work - do you find it hard work with your mate? What basis do you have for friendship, if you hold totally differing views?

TedBundysDriver

I've plenty of friends with those views and i don't view them any less for it. Everyone is entitled to think as they please. I'd actually welcome someone who had a viewpoint i might disagree with as there's nothing worse than living in a social circle bubble.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121200646#Comment_121200646

So I agree up to a point. Everyone is going to be somewhere along spectrum on immigration from "free for all" to "natives only", with most people occupying somewhere away from the extremes I would say, same thing with things like Covid restrictions and masks etc. I would argue someone up on the stage with a megaphone during rallies is probably gone a bit far off the deep end.

89897

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121200571#Comment_121200571

This would be my mindset also. There are differing views and being respectful about it and then there are hate filled trans/gay/foreign people are all evil dangerous groomers view that alot of these very vocal people have thats extremely harmful and dangerous. Thats not political its just hating on someone.

Im lucky have a wide range of friends with a range of views but none of them are hateful and harmful, its not something I could stand with and like Yellow said its entirely against my values.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121200516#Comment_121200516

Echo chamber🙄

Friends are people that enjoy each others company, do things together, enjoy similar pursuits, hold the same values/ethics etc.

There are plenty of people in our lives to disagree with/hold differing views. Actual friends shouldn't be them! There is no need to surround yourself with people who hold completely opposing views on life!

Danzy

You can be friends with someone and disagree with their views, politics and lots of things.

Why would you expect people to fully agree with you on things, you can't control life like that.

You can keep them at a distance though.

growleaves

I find the idea of not being able to be friends with somebody with different views a little distasteful. It reminds me of Communist Party politics - defining yourself as a member of a faction foremost.

Then again it sounds like your friend is a very public activist and perhaps not even tactful in private conversation? That could be a bit embarrassing and uncomfortable for you.

Only you can really say if it's worth it.

I don't think meeting someone and having coffee with them is a tacit endorsement of their views though. That potentially opens up a totalitarian standard of human interaction: Could you do business with somebody with the 'wrong' views? Could you maintain family ties with somebody with the 'wrong' views? Etc.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121200398#Comment_121200398

It's important not to automatically assume that someone has no agency in their own decisions, there's obviously something in these extremist views that she agrees with. She isn't just a passive participant on the sidelines, she seems to be very active

Personally, I don't think I could be close friends with someone who has those viewpoints

I try not to mix politics with socialising, but I agree there has to be a line somewhere.

I don't see how anyone with such violently destructive views can possibly be a good friend. From what I've seen a lot of people get drawn into that world because it promises they can say whatever stupid and offensive thing comes into their heads.

It's hard to imagine someone in that space being able to compartmentalise their thoughts to not say something in front of you that you might find offensive

So, what to do about it? Well you're going to have to ask yourself if their friendship is worth them saying things you might not like. There's degrees of friendship and you don't necessarily need to be close friends to maintain a cordial relationship

You could ditch them, but the problem then is it might re-enforce her views rather than cause her to question them

I would suggest meeting them for coffee and seeing how it goes. If she says something then you might have to remind her that you don't share her views and would prefer she stayed away from politics

You could mention that if she wants to discuss her views she should prepare to have them challenged

Overall however, I don't think you'll have much success. Part of having a reasonable debate is willing to accept an evidence based argument against your viewpoints, and people on the extreme ends of an argument tend to not be capable of this

tesla_newbie

Important not to view people as heretical for not being on board with respectable liberal sensibilities, such opinions are far more widely held than many believe and are the norm in most European countries, never mind the rest of the world