An interesting article about a guy obsessed with conspiracy theories who got out.

ghostfacekilla

It gave me a lot more compassion and empathy towards those who end up in the rabbit holes, learning that they ultimately wish the world to be a better place by exposing wrongdoings, however the article further strengthens my earlier belief that conspiracy theorists have difficulty assessing information, and conducting research with a healthy degree of skepticism as opposed to it being an intelligence issue. The level of information we have to assess today which labels itself as news is huge, compared to the pre-internet era. I believe that education departments worldwide need to tweak the curriculum to teach students at all levels greater levels of critical analysis, or the world will be left with increasing numbers of citizens, unable to differentiate the true from the false which seems to be a fast growing threat to democracies in many previously stable states at this moment in time.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/oct/04/escape-from-the-rabbit-hole-the-conspiracy-theorist-who-abandoned-his-dangerous-beliefs

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058316779/an-interesting-article-about-a-guy-obsessed-with-conspiracy-theories-who-got-out

"When the 7/7 attacks took place in London in 2005, killing 52 people, Lee was online, searching with fellow truthers for evidence that the terror attack was orchestrated by the UK government. They examined footage of the attackers going to the train station in Luton and were made suspicious by the way railings appeared to slice through the leg of one of the attackers; they decided the image had been Photoshopped before being released by the police. Now he acknowledges that the glitches might simply have been the result of shaky CCTV technology rather than the work of cultist masterminds."

This is at the core of most conspiracy believers. They believe the conspiracy first. Then they search for anything, no matter how nonsensical which supports the belief and filter out everything that doesn't.

The "asking questions" is really just code for attacking the facts to discrediting them, in order to hint that a conspiracy took place.

The interest in detailing the conspiracy itself is often low or non-existent.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198472#Comment_121198472

I think that it's assuming too much initiative to say that theorists go seeking these anomalies. Most don't and are repeating ones fed to them by conspiracy theory media.

moonage

So he saw the light and now believes everything he is told by the government and mainstream media? The only sources of truth!

I wonder what really happened. Perhaps they had some dirt on him or he was offered a lot of money to switch to the 'other side'.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121221817#Comment_121221817

That's not what he said nor is it what the article states.

You are ascribing a ridiculous position to him that he does not hold so you can dismiss the points made. That's very dishonest.

Not believing conspiracy theories, such as Qanon or 9/11 being fake does not mean that someone then believes everything the government says or that they and media are perfect.

What really happened is that he started to see the flaws and contradictions in conspiracy theory belief, and rather than plugging his ears and closing his mind to other ideas, he grew up.

There's nothing strange or outlandish about this, though it does seem to be a rarity.

It is however very outlandish to suggest that this person was bribed or threatened to change his mind by a shadowy conspiracy for which there is nothing to suggest it exists.

moonage

I feel sorry for the chap.

He's now engaging in conspiracy denial. He has abandoned healthy mistrust and critical thinking.

Maybe he got a knock on the head!

silliussoddius

3/10

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121221848#Comment_121221848

Again not what he or the article said. Just more dishonest misrepresentaction.

Not believing in Qanon does not mean you lack critical thinking. It's the other way around.

You've changed your claim it seems.

Previously you were suggesting that he was part of a conspiracy to fake changing his mind.

Now you're claiming that the only explanation for why he might have stopped believing in conspiracy theories is brain damage.

That's insulting and a little silly.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121221817#Comment_121221817

He had extreme beliefs which he stopped believing because they made no sense

"

Brent Lee struggles to explain why he used to believe that a cabal of evil satanic paedophiles was working to establish a new world order. He pauses, looks sheepish, and says: “I cringe at all this now.”

For 15 years, Lee collected signs that so-called Illuminati overlords were controlling global events. He convinced himself that secret societies were running politics, banks, religious institutions and the entertainment industry, and that most terrorist attacks were actually government-organised ritual sacrifices."

Do you believe there is a cabal of even satanic paedophiles working to establish a new world order? No.

Does that mean you automatically accept every single thing a government minister or newspaper says? Of course not.

moonage

"His reasons for abandoning the 'truther' movement (truthers believe official accounts of big events are designed to conceal the truth from the public) are also hard to slot into a conventional worldview. Lee veers between feeling ashamed and amused by his own convictions while also pointing out that it would be a mistake to dismiss these ideas with an impatient eye roll, because they are very dangerous."

Clearly the purpose of the Guardian article is to make the trusting masses think that there is something 'dangerous' about believing in a different version of events to what the state and media are telling them.

What is dangerous is not being able to think critically and thus always believing the official narratives. To sweep under the carpet the fact that collusion, corruption, conspiracy and deception play a large part in the way the world is run.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230515#Comment_121230515

Buy again you're ascribing arguments to people they aren't making. Most likely because you aren't able to address the points raised in the article.

Again not believing in Qanon or that Sandy Hook was fake does not mean that you then believe that there's no such thing as corruption.

Though the fact you have to rely on this dishonest tactic, and do so while plugging your ears is a great demonstration of the perils of conspiracy theory thinking.

eightieschewbaccy

Is there any particular conspiracy theory that he's rejected that makes you conclude he's sustained brain damage? @moonage It seems distinctly like there's some theory he's rejected that you're a firm believer in.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230777#Comment_121230777

The ones mentioned in the article include the idea that Sandy Hook was faked and Qanon. These are usually dismissed as obviously false by most conspiracy theorists and they get very upset when you suggest they might believe or support such ideas. Or when you compare their prefered conspiracy theories to the ones they reject.

I suspect that @moonage will now object to you suggesting that he might believe in one of these theories when he's not said he supports them. Ascribing positions to people they don't hold will suddenly become a unforgivable crime again.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230515#Comment_121230515

Believing far-fetched conspiracies and never questioning them is not critical thinking.

Do you believe the world is run by Satan-worshipping pedophiles?

On a hunch, do you think e.g. the Holocaust was a conspiracy at all?

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230515#Comment_121230515

Caesar's death was not the result of a conspiracy? Conspiracies can be observed in a wide range of contexts, from politics and government to business and even everyday life. People often come together to form secret alliances or plot against a common target. Conspiracies are not unique to the United States, however. Almost every country has its own history of conspiracy theories.

A central point of contention arises when truthers claim to possess knowledge that surpasses that of the official investigators. This claim challenges the credibility of the official investigation and can be met with skepticism. Critics argue that it is unlikely for a group of individuals, commonly referred to as "truthers," to possess more accurate information and insights than the extensive resources and expertise employed in the official investigation.

Galileo's work challenged the prevailing scientific beliefs of the Catholic Church and the worldview during his time and was shown to be correct overtime. He had a long list of debunkers challenging him that he was wrong.

With 9/11, you're asking people to believe a secret team destroyed buildings on the back of a plane hijacking plot. In cases where the names of perpetrators are unknown, i understand the skepticism. The denial surrounding official reports and the dismissal of anomalies by debunkers can be attributed to various factors such as adherence to the official narrative, fear of conspiracy theories, or fearing they missed something.

 Those who are willing to critically analyze the events will recognize that the freefall collapse depicted in the model presented by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) appears strikingly unfamiliar to the actual footage of the buildings seven falling. Amidst the detailed analysis and extensive simulations carried out by the NIST, one remarkable finding stands out: the lack of freefall collapse. NIST missed such a significant detail, it calls into question the validity of their entire investigation and the subsequent conclusions drawn from it.) overlooked the destruction of eight floors. 

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248041#Comment_121248041

Again, just because people aren't convinced of the conspiracy theories you believe (and have failed to defend) it doesn't mean that they don't believe conspiracies exist. Or that they are are afraid of conspiracies. Very silly thing to claim.

You however are a perfect example of how conspiracy theorists don't actually use critical thinking.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248041#Comment_121248041

You are trying to compare conspiracies that actually happened and are based on observal facts, such as conspiracy to kill Ceasar or to steal a presidential election, with fantasy stories which for unknown reasons get titled with the word conspiracy theories.

Conspiracy theories as discussed in this forum are not the same as conspiracies. Just unfortunately both things are called by similar names. Absolutely nobody is denying that conspiracies happen.

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121284571#Comment_121284571

Contrary to what some debunkers may argue, the government has indeed announced programs related to UFOS. In 2017, several initiatives were revealed, aimed at studying and understanding these enigmatic objects. The government's involvement has provided a sense of legitimacy to the topic, prompting discussions and investigations into these unidentified aerial phenomena.

The House Committee on Assassinations, in its investigation into the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, announced the presence of a conspiracy. The committee, formed to reexamine the events surrounding JFK's death, conducted a thorough inquiry into the matter. Their findings suggested that there was more than one person involved in the assassination, pointing towards a conspiracy. Oswald's narrative isnt true.

The controlled demolition theory is the last conspiracy theory I discuss, and the US government has not admitted any sinister involvement or truth with. Will they ever? I don't know.

This raises the question of whether you might also be mistaken about the 9/11 conspiracy.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121284801#Comment_121284801

But given how you've been very very wrong about pretty everything in regards to 9/11, have made repeated mistakes about high school level physics, lied and resort to plugging your ears when called out, why would anyone question the events of 9/11?

You've not convinced a single person of your conspiracy theory. You yourself have repeated changed your theory to avoid doubting it.

The fact that none of this shakes your religious faith in your theories is very illustrative.

ghostfacekilla

@ghostfacekilla I've deleted your post as it breaches the Charter, which can be found here. Please read it before posting again as warnings can be applied for any further breaches.

Thanks

HS

robinph

@Cheerful S

Contrary to what some debunkers may argue, the government has indeed announced programs related to UFOS. In 2017, several initiatives were revealed, aimed at studying and understanding these enigmatic objects. The government's involvement has provided a sense of legitimacy to the topic, prompting discussions and investigations into these unidentified aerial phenomena.

That would be government programs with the purpose of changing the unidentified bit of the UFO tag associated with each individual incident into "identified".

That doesn't mean the government believes that UFOs = Aliens on any level whatsoever. Just that they particularly don't like anything being "unidentified". Government programs trying to find out what something is doesn't support your beliefs in any way at all.

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286090#Comment_121286090

False actually because the programs were run by people in the Pentagon ( this is the government) and they have categorically stated that the likely craft witnessed was from somewhere else). However, there is another agency called ARRO, which appears to be another part of the intelligence apparatus that doesn't want the world to know what's going on.The existence of conflicting opinions within the intelligence community adds another layer of complexity to the already mysterious phenomenon of UFO sighting. It is not surprising that there is resistance against whistleblowers, as there may be factions within the United States government who want to keep the existence of crashed UFOs a secret.

silliussoddius

if you haven’t figured out by now the recent UFO stuff was just driven by a successful lobby group, you never will.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286333#Comment_121286333

was from somewhere else

From "somewhere else" as opposed to being from "here".

Define "here" and show us where these government agencies state where either "here" or "somewhere else" is.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286389#Comment_121286389

You mean like a conspiracy of people to make a lot of money by decieving the public with false information?

Conspiracy theorists wouldn't be interested in that sort of thing. Or be at all suspicious of people who would stand to make money off such a scheme.

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286392#Comment_121286392

https://irp.fas.org/dia/aatip-list.pdf

Think these programs are investigating weather balloons? Go ahead and believe that.  the link has a collection of unclassified documents now that cover highly exotic and otherworldly topics. From advanced technologies and theoretical physics. Some of the products are classified!! ( what does that mean?)

One link.

Traversable Wormholes, Stargates, and Negative Energy, Dr. Eric Davis, EarthTech International (Product is classified UNCLASSIFIED/ /FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY)  

The concept of balloons traveling through wormholes challenges our perception of the limitations imposed by the laws of physics ) kidding here. Some people work on strange stuff without caring what a debunker on a site thinks.

Bobson Dugnutt

I’ve a nephew who has gone completely down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole. He believes almost every conspiracy theory he hears about and then fits a narrative and belief system around it. He was always a little “odd” but covid lockdowns and his daily cannabis usage has turned him into a paranoid and conspiracy theorist. It’s tragic to see.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286616#Comment_121286616

Well if the Skinwalker Scooby gang say so.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286729#Comment_121286729

Yea, a cursory look into this tells me that this is just an example of these grifters bamboozling their audience with big scifi words they don't really understand.

For instance the one document that Cheerful highlights, but didn't read is just a theoretical paper and doesn't have anything to do with people actually making wormholes or UFOs.

Most conspiracy claims can be deflated by actually looking into sources and reading things. Most conspiracy theorists do not do this. Though most now seemed to have caught on to this and now outright refuse to post anything with a traceable source.

Hoop66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286631#Comment_121286631

Are you my long-lost brother? I have a nephew very similar. I do put up with his bullshit, but only because he gets such excellent weed.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286616#Comment_121286616

Nothing in what you linked to says anything even remotely close to UFO = aliens.

Just a bunch of research papers about crazy theories that people have been investigating. That is what scientist's do, come up with a theory about something, then test their theory to see if they were right, even if they were not right they still write a paper about it to show others what they discovered in their testing of the theory. Then other scientists can come along and test their ideas against what the previous people found.

Just because scientists have written papers on things that you may have seen in Star Wars/ Trek/ Gate doesn't mean aliens have been visiting. Just that the ideas that appear in those shows can actually sometimes end up being inspiration for real life research ideas. Those things get prove, or not, and the scientific understanding of the world expands.

It's not a conspiracy.

And just because some of those papers may be classified as the US doesn't want to let their earth based enemies know what they have been researching, also doesn't mean aliens are behind it.