Deposit return scheme (recycling)

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121823603#Comment_121823603

Now that the figure has gone from 3 percent to over 20 percent, does that change your opinion?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121823571#Comment_121823571

Well I think the real figure of those most put out by the scheme would be those who answered "always" which is 11%, so I think higher than 3% and growing.

Boggles

27% of households were projected this year to do their grocery shop online.

Above 1 in 4.

People were encouraged to do this because it was good for the environment.

Again this scheme is green theatre, green washing.

At this stage you might as well duct tape your plastic bottles to a swan, set it on fire and kick into a river.

It would probably be more environmental at this stage.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121823355#Comment_121823355

I said a while back this scheme will increase fly tipping. Hardly surprising with how its been setup.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121823648#Comment_121823648

We could look at it another way. 53% of respondents to the poll said never. Almost 47% of respondents have used online grocery shopping at least twice.

And while 11.6% may grocery shop online exclusively, another 13.7% say they use it regularly enough, whch *probably means getting a "big shop" delivered and dropping instore in person for tops ups on milk and bread or other fresh items as required.

Either way, its more than 3% (thanks @kippy for the clarification).

(*probably is allowed on this thread)

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121824088#Comment_121824088

Fair point, and one of the problem I see with the scheme is those small shops where you get the "top up" are exempt from take backs.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121824125#Comment_121824125

I was in my local Centra early this morning (where I go for any midweek top-ups!) and they were charging deposits but have no RVM. There is also another Centra in the area and a Super-Valu but none have RVMs.

I noticed a lot of secondary school kids buying cans and bottled drinks with their lunches from the deli counter. It made me wonder if they'll go into bins that the school can then collect the deposits on, or if the parents will want the kids to bring their empties home!

🤔

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121824187#Comment_121824187

There's a bit of a prisoners dilemma there... if one shop puts in an RVM in that location they will clean up. If more than one does maybe neither makes money off it. Hmm.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121824233#Comment_121824233

One of the Centras' and the Super-Valu are owned by the same guy, They often swap the staff around!

Bob Marley Park

It's another move where the intention and the outcome don't match.

The consumer always gets it in the ear.

Why does every Green move involve financial cost to the public? What about bottle banks in every neighbourhood? They could even scan the bar codes and give out change.

LambshankRedemption

If only 3% of people did their grocery shopping online, I don't think Tesco would be bothering with it anymore.

For online grocery sales you need:

• A call centre, or space in a call centre for customers care (For anyone says they dont have that, yes they do I have dealt with them many times)
• Vans that can fit into driveways, and down rural roads, a departure from their fleet of HGV trucks.
• A fleet of drivers for the vans
• A website listing all their produce in the store in the consumers catchment area

Thats a lot of investment for only 3%.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121824280#Comment_121824280

You forgot

crates for delivery

staff who are solely employed to pick your shopping in store.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121824280#Comment_121824280

Yeah, apologies.

I had brought this issue up in this or a similiar thread in December (Issues with online shopping returns) and a figure was given to me as 3 %. I didn't question it at the time (should have) so I've been using that figure where required.

Even if it were 3%, as you say the bigger shops are scaling up the infrastrucutre and systems required to increase the amount of people going online. It's a great way to reduce car journies and reduce carbon emmissions but sure lookit, theres probably no pat on the head for making it easier to do.

One would have assumed that such a great scheme as DRS which workds really really well in other countries and for which there was a public consultation and of course millions spent on consultants, such an obvious piece of the supply chain would have been built into the system somehow.

I personally think the reason it wasnt was because the answer to the problem, wasn't a million miles away from what we've been doing for years with a few tweaks in order to record the barcodes. (IE a collection bin in your house, picked up by another truck once a week or fortnight and credit given to you for the contents of the bin)

But that would have been way way way too similiar to what actually works now.

On top of that, someone mentioned the kids above or the purchasing of one or two bottles/cans, having to hold onto them etc - surely more public recycle bins were the answer here coupled with more education and more importantly enforced laws and rules in relation to using the correct bins etc.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121824293#Comment_121824293

Thank you. Hadnt thought of that.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121824346#Comment_121824346

"I personally think the reason it wasn't was because the answer to the problem, wasn't a million miles away from what we've been doing for years with a few tweaks in order to record the barcodes. (IE a collection bin in your house, picked up by another truck once a week or fortnight and credit given to you for the contents of the bin)"

No reason at all why your sensible suggestion above should not be implemented even now.

By all means keep the RVMs to cater for the anti street litter campaign. But the single biggest faux pas here was not to incorporate the existing scheme.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121824346#Comment_121824346

I got a leaflet from Tesco explaining about the DRS, why it was so important but the bottom line was they could not refund customers of home deliveries.

What irks me is, if you assumed that home delivery customers do not regularly visit the shopping centre, and so are not regularly in a position to bring their empties back, why not remove the deposit for bottles bought via a delivery order? Those people can then continue to put their bottles in their green bin without being out of pocket.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121824451#Comment_121824451

A great suggestion. Would have thought all of this would have been sorted out well before rollout.

There's a fairly significant volume of online sales happening when you look at the scale of the delivery operations. I'd say there are some very old figures being thrown around. A lot of the supermarkets don't seem to provide a breakdown of how much they'r selling online, but you can see there's a market there when you look at the scale of the effort they put into marketing the services and the number of trucks etc some of them have.

I mean, if you look at say for example of the flagship Dunnes Stores in Bishopscourt / Bandon Road in Cork there's a significant number of delivery delivery vehicles and they're not even one of the best at marketing that service. Tesco trucks are constantly seen around the place and SuperValu online is a big deal.

A lot of households do their big boring aspects of weekly shop online and then just supplement it during the week with the more interesting stuff.

The overall Irish food and groceries market is worth about €20 billion a year. So, even 3% of that is a LOT of shopping.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121824346#Comment_121824346

Far too sensible a suggestion for our gubbermint to implement.

GSBellew

4.Buy in NI, Recycle as normal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121822917#Comment_121822917

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121824034#Comment_121824034

The sort of people that fly tip see no issue burning petrol to drive their black bags well away from their doorstep, not the audience the Return scheme would appeal to anyway.

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121824451#Comment_121824451

But Tesco's would have already been charged that deposit when the bought the items in. They don't differentiate between stock that goes out on the shop floor and stock to be used for store deliveries as far as I know.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121824451#Comment_121824451

What about ReTurn’s nice little profit? It wouldn’t do at all at all to reduce it.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121822998#Comment_121822998

Reinvented the wheel, a fcukin square wheel!

Atlantic Dawn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121824531#Comment_121824531

And for those barcodes that are a direct match for down here make some true free cash off them.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121824545#Comment_121824545

It's a non profit, if it makes a surplus it has to reduce the charges to producers (who are it's shareholders)

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121824532#Comment_121824532

Yes agreed. That doesn't sound like Mr Disco though in the post I quoted. He was recycling. Now it sounds like he's had it up to his eyeballs with everything i.e. Re-Turn deposits on top of increasing bin charges and has decided he's gona dispose of his rubbish by other means. I dont think there'll be widespread fly tipping or anything but it will increase for sure.

I remember before this went live, a politician was asked on the radio were the machines wheelchair accessible, “Oh of course they are” was the answer.

They just make stuff up on the spot.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121824558#Comment_121824558

What if it fails to deliver on it's promises? What happens then?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121824650#Comment_121824650

They increase the charges to the producers. They are the ones legally liable for it