The emergence of "Zombie" by The Cranberries as an Irish sporting anthem

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154521#Comment_121154521

The pIRA killed more Catholics in the UDR ( Ulster Defence Regiment of the British army ) than the UDR killed people.

It was extremist Republicans who killed the most people, and who planted and exploded over 99% of the 16,200 bombs.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154561#Comment_121154561

You have no issue with the British armed forces teaming up with loyalists to kill and maim huge numbers of innocent Irish people in order to force them to remain within the UK?

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154592#Comment_121154592

Why are you using a derogatory term to refer to the families of the victims of murder committed by the British armed forces and loyalists?

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154604#Comment_121154604

Why not get a song written then

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154619#Comment_121154619

I do not think they are or were MOPEs because they were not the Most Oppressed People Ever. It is more so you if you are comparing them to the blacks in south Africa.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154535#Comment_121154535

Well first off we do know what it's about. I could see the point with 'Delilah' that nobody ever really listened to the verse, and only sang a catchy chorus.

In terms of 1916 or the IRA, to me that's not really relevant.

In fact, I'd actually think it would fit better as a political song to be sang at an event, as that's how it was meant.

Using it to goad opponents (maybe less so as a fun tune), is either disrespectful, or just missing the point in a cringey way.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154637#Comment_121154637

Using a derogatory term to refer to these victims families says a huge amount about you. Clearly you're not a very nice individual if you mock victims like that.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154211#Comment_121154211

That's whatabouttery again. Killing people, especially civilians, is bad. It's not a hard rule to understand. Killing children is bad. And I'm not about to get into an argument with someone trying to glorify a group of child killers. If you want I'll admit this, it might be possible using some metrics to show that one bunch of scum were slightly less scummy than the other. But both sides were doing scummy things. like I said before, it's like trying to claim one serial killer is better than another one because they caused slightly less harm. It might be true, but in the end they're both serial killers.

And back on topic, I have no problem with people singing the cranberries at a rugby match. It's a good song, it's not even tribal. Wish there were more anthems like that.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154655#Comment_121154655

Were not talking about victims families. Was talking about Catholics in N.I. Most of whom did not vote for S.F. during the troubles.

The pIRA did not act in the name of the people of Ireland, or even N.I., or even the Catholics of N.I.

In your head...

purplepanda

Shite song, shite singing, shite music, just as bad as Celtic symphony, The Sawdoctors, Garth Brooks & County & Western crap!

StringerBell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154115#Comment_121154115

I think its more about degrees isn't it?

Like if you kill one innocent person you are obviously far from clean, but are you cleaner in act than a person who has killed 10 innocent people?

Nobody has to be "good" in a scenario and of course you don't have to distinguish between them if you don't want to, but in general society does distinguish by degrees.

Become Death

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154912#Comment_121154912

Nah. Anyone excusing the actions of the British Army, and anyone excusing the IRA are both odious pricks.

StringerBell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154928#Comment_121154928

Think that goes onto a separate point tbf and as I'm not going to go back to read the posts I'll stick to the original.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154912#Comment_121154912

We generally don't with murders though do we? I am not sure that in any other situation people go out of their way to try and say one murderer is "cleaner" than another.

Back to the rugby, isn't it a bit ironic that the so-called "partitionists" are the ones supporting a 32 county team?

downthemiddle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154563#Comment_121154563

I have accepted nothing you have said.

Putting me on ignore shows your inability to make any point. It’s cowardly, but what would you expect from an apologist for the murder of innocent people.

In your head, Zombie.

Panthro

Great that we beat the South Africa Rugby team though, hah?

downthemiddle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155172#Comment_121155172

A very enjoyable game.

Lillyfae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155172#Comment_121155172

Can we get a vote for "The Monkees - I'm a believer"??

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154983#Comment_121154983

I have always found most if not all N.I. rugby to be friendly and compromising and amienable. Good sports. I think in return we should be nice to them too. Zombie is a great song of peace and reconciliation, and it says the Warrington bombers etc were not in our name..

bend_sinister

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154196#Comment_121154196

Do you...do you think you invented the term "broads" for females??? 😂

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153982#Comment_121153982

Alot of bitterness there boet , it might help to talk with a professional.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155280#Comment_121155280

I get that.

I mentioned earlier that I was ok with singing Zombie as an anti-IRA protest song at a sporting event.

Come to think of it though, in terms of 32 country inclusivity, I don't think it works for the rugby.

I think you'd have to either drop it, or sing something alongside that's similarly critical of Loyalist atrocities.

It seems most people aren't singing in a political context anyway. More as a perhaps misguided homage to Delores, or to tastelessly goad the opposition.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155489#Comment_121155489

Nobody condones the loyalist atrocities. You do not have bands up on a stage in front of thousands or tens of thousands singing uh ah up the UDA or uh ah up the Shankhill butchers. You do not have a leader from a mainstream political saying there was "no alternative" to loyalist paramilitaries.

The Irish team is playing under the Irish tricolour, that is the dominant flag used at the matches. It makes sense and shows respect to all that pira atrocities done under the flag of the tricolour were not in our name. Do not forget three northerners on the Irish rugby team were nearly killed by a pira bomb during the troubles ( one never played again ).

Downlinz

The takes on this are wild.

Zombie has been a popular song for both Limerick GAA and Munster Rugby in recent years starting as a commemoration to local treasure Dolores. It's a catchy song to sing and works well in a crowd for everyone else to join in, it's a song of peace and resolve and it means nothing else other than having pride in Limerick. It's been sung for years in both the Gaelic Grounds and Thomond and I've never heard of it anyone consider it even remotely divisive.

Maybe the song should just should just stay in Limerick if people outside are going to do these kind of mental gymnastics every time it's heard in a stadium.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155675#Comment_121155675

It's nothing to do with anybody condoning Loyalist atrocities.

It's about condemning one side and not the other.

Either leave the politics out of it, or condemn both.

Besides now your making it sound that it's less to do with the what happened in Warrington and more current point-scoring with SF supporters.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155699#Comment_121155699

If it is being done in the name of peace, there's tons of songs that are only about peace and don't reference specific events.

One of those might be better suited for a 32 county organisation.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155699#Comment_121155699

Correct and well put. "It’s only people who believe every atrocity, bombing and shooting of the IRA was justified who are having to jump through hoops here."

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155780#Comment_121155780

Condemning those who bombed kids in shopping centres is, or should be, inclusive to everyone. It was not in our name.

growleaves

Its a good song imo.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154702#Comment_121154702

Were you out protesting when most of Ireland were celebrating those who fought during the Easter rising? They killed civilians. Were they scumbags in your eyes? It's not whataboutery, it's finding out if you are a hypocrite.

RoTelly

So just to add to this.

The sound of the song is great IMO and the words are a bit meh but they go with the sound so it gets a pass.

The meaning of the song I always felt came from a Southern Irish Rock Band that didn't really understand any of the issues. Yes you can say it is a song against war, and in particular the Warrington bombing, but its largely one against the nationalist, they are not saying

"In your head Britannia is still ruling ... in your head"

Do I think it is an anti-War song?

No, It is unfortunately comes across as a tiresome FG TD saying do we really have to deal with the nationalist in the north look at what they keep doing, rather then recognizing that both sides were doing much the same to one another.

Though I am sure the cranberries would take a differing view. However, all in all its a good catchy rock anthem.