Let's Be Honest Public Transport in Ireland is an Abominaiton Because it is Meant to Be...

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121159847#Comment_121159847

"Issue is not the price"

I'd disagree there when it comes to trains. Stupid prices to go to Dublin from anywhere.

Eg Limerick to Dublin for an adult - 50 euro return - bear in mind that is on a train with no security or conductor or even a guarantee you would get a seat even if you prebook and select a seat.

Other rail services then are now generally much slower then a car since the motorways so not ideal for anyone working.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121162373#Comment_121162373

Public transport can never deliver on orbital trips to the same degree as on radial trips to the city centre, for the simple reason that very few trips have identical starting and ending points.

What it can do is have the orbital routes serve the major traffic generating locations and connect with the Spine routes at intersections.

In your example you’re adding extra distance at either end and that’s just never going to be easy using public transport. People need to be realistic in their expectations as to what public transport can deliver.

No two people are going to be making your specific trip

Raheny to Swords is doable with the DART and 102 via Malahide for example but that’s from one village centre to the town centre at the other end, and if timed properly would take about 40-45 mins (16 mins DART, 16 mins bus and 10 mins waiting). Re-routing all DARTs to Malahide means a 10 minute frequency and the 102 will increase to every 20 mins Monday-Friday when it becomes the L81.

BusConnects will deliver more options as the remaining orbital routes are rolled out across the city - the W4 for example now gives a viable option for many linking Blanchardstown with Lucan and Clondalkin. Increasing the frequency of those is the key so that people aren’t waiting long for connections.

But as I say people will always need cars for some orbital trips as the origin points and destinations can be so diverse.

StudentDad

Nevermind the larger towns and cities. Where I am you need a car. There isn't a decent local bus service. The cherry on top? You have to then pay for parking (if you can find any) in town. In their wisdom the local council installed pay as you go bikes. A decent bus service? No. Pay as you go bikes that are dotted around the place like someone with a bike litter fetish? Yes! Not a whole lot of use to anyone in the bucketing down rain, trying to get to a meeting or anything else half useful and you get to pay per minute to use them. Wow!

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121162800#Comment_121162800

100% agree with what you're saying, but there is lies the rub

Those orbital trips are the killers in terms of traffic. The very odd time when I drive the motorcycle into town I notice that once I'm past the canals the traffic is mostly ok. I don't actually think there is that much traffic in town relative to the orbital traffic outside the canals.

And you're right, fixing that going to be very difficult, particularly given how narrow many of the roads are and the underlying road layout.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121162877#Comment_121162877

Ah yes, the problems of our planning system, allowing people to build and live in houses away from towns and cities. They complain if you won't let them build because of the lack of services, and they complain about the lack of services if you let them build.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121160679#Comment_121160679

To be fair the Connecting Ireland programme is rolling out a massive increase in regular rural bus routes and increasing frequency on many existing ones. It is a five year project but there have been a lot of changes since it started last year.

Many of the once a week Bus Éireann routes are being replaced by Local Link services that have several departures each day, but it will take time to roll them all out.

Other Bus Éireann routes have seen a large increase in frequency and new connections made - for example Killarney to Kenmare is nearly hourly all day now, and there’s an extension to Skibbereen every three hours which didn’t exist before. Athlone to Drogheda a new service that operates every two hours. They’re two examples of improvements.

If you look at this thread it has been documenting all of the new services as they happen.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058215586/connecting-ireland-project-launched/p1

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121162411#Comment_121162411

All of those ideas are 30-50 year ideas. We need better public transport now, this year. The only immediate option is more buses on the road, and giving buses priority over private car traffic.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121163222#Comment_121163222

But do you not think the quick fix solution is what got us to where we are in the first place?

I get what you're saying, we're running out of time fast. And that's compounded even more by the fact the population increased by 2% in the last 12 months, most of which is probably in the greater Dublin area.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121163069#Comment_121163069

Thanks, I suppose I do see things from a narrow perspective, but so little public transport coupled with traffic queues on the way in and out of town is a tad frustrating.

If I dispense with the car a taxi journey is fifty euro either way.

Incidentally the main route in serves quite a number of villages and the only buses that are seen with any frequency are school buses. There are two that go past my gate at least twice a day, so obviously a regular service wouldn't be difficult to provide. One wonders just what percentage of parents use the bus anyway, the risky bits of the trip are SUV's parked and pulling out around schools.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121163222#Comment_121163222

We needed better public transport 15-20 years ago, not just now….it was known then but we haven’t got it.

the prevalence of the private car is because public transport is so shît is unreal.

when I lived in Paris and if I did again, not for a single second would I contemplate using a car. An unbelievable and fantastically integrated metro, RER, tram and suburban rail system…. Buses too but I never bothered with them…

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121163495#Comment_121163495

This document will give you a rough idea of what’s planned by county. In some cases better services have been rolled out.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Connecting-Ireland-Proposed-Network-Maps-2021.pdf

More info on rollout is here:

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/connecting-ireland/

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121163529#Comment_121163529

Many thanks!

It provides hope. Three return trips a day is a lot better than the one return trip on Friday.

I just hope the legs hold out to get me to the three miles to the village if it materialises.

It still isn't quite as up to the mark the service was in my youth. There was a time when the bus used to travel to the grotto at the intersection of the road to the two main villages.

I guess its the catch 22.

Until the bus service is almost as cheap and convenient as a car, then people will use their cars, thus eliminating the need for the bus service.

I suppose someone has done their homework, but extending the route by a couple of miles would make all the difference to what in summer is a very popular area.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121163739#Comment_121163739

If you live three miles from the local village, you will never have a proper public transport service, and nor should you.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121162411#Comment_121162411

We built a little bit of elevated rail over 130 years ago, the likes of Frank McDonald are still complaining about it. Not going to happen, underground is the only way.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121162426#Comment_121162426

Fares paid by me in the last two weeks.

GY to Dub = 15.99 each way, one of those was booked 24 hrs in advance

Dub to Wexford = 11.95 and 12.95

Those fares are cheap compared to many EU countries.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121163917#Comment_121163917

If it’s along the main road linking that village to the nearest town or near a crossroads along it, then there’s every chance of a Local Link service being established under Connecting Ireland.

One can’t expect regular rural services to directly serve people’s homes in the countryside, that’s the job of the demand responsive transport, but it’s perfectly reasonable to expect a network of routes that serve the towns and villages and operate along main roads building up connectivity.

Look at the Local Link network around south Wexford - there’s now an hourly bus between Wexford and Rosslare, ten return services a day between Wexford and Duncormick via Taghmon and Wellingtonbridge, at least five return services a day between New Ross and Wellingtonbridge, and at least four services linking the Hook Head peninsula with New Ross each day, and all of these are running 7 days a week.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164220#Comment_121164220

I agree, but people will have to learn to live in villages.

If the Kenny Report was ever properly implemented, the council could CPO land around villages at agricultural prices and sell sites to locals at a reasonable cost, ending the bungalow blight scourge. That would then make public transport, community sewerage schemes, schools etc. much more viable.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164150#Comment_121164150

I must be using the wrong Irish rail site so - that price above was for anytime this Friday.

Geuze

No, you could be correct, fares are higher on the Cork line.

Lowest I see is 21 one-way, to 25.50.

Return is also 21 to 25.50.

So you are correct, could be 45 - 50 return.

Geuze

Fares on some lines, e.g. Wexford are lower as trains are slower.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164343#Comment_121164343

And less frequent.

There is no service from Dublin to Wexford that arrives before midday.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121163917#Comment_121163917

Why, what's the logic? That sounds crazy, the people the bus picks up on the way on the Castlegregory or Brandon and even Dingle route are various distances from their local villages, I assumed the bus just picked up and dropped where it was needed. There are no marked bus stops anywhere except Tralee and maybe Dingle.

I try to minimise trips to town to one or maybe two a week. Even for the week I have to make several trips back to the car for the basic weekly items.

About twice a month I bring feed for my kwackers. I use a parcel truck to offload that.

The reason I want to avoid car use is to save money and help the environment.

Paying delivery services to come twenty miles from Tralee would be lunacy as it would both cost me more and involve a load more trips by trucks, not cars.

Explain why the village that the bus is projected to stop in shouldn't have a bus service?

It would answer my needs if the bus came straight through its intended stopping point and carried on to my village. Would this satisfy the transport requirements? It used to stop at an equidistant point between the two most densely populated villages which was fine, that was in the "good old days" though.

Bringing more than a shopping bag would be impossible. I wouldn't bat an eyelid thirty years back, but I have had periods when I was unable to walk to my own gate. I doubt I am alone in that situation either.

So I really don't see the logic of deliberately providing transport only to a point where a fit person would be able to cycle in anyway.

You might be at an age where three miles is insignificant, I can promise you there will come a time when it can be quite an obstacle.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164859#Comment_121164859

No problem with buses stopping in villages and towns.

Problem is people living away from villages and towns.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164859#Comment_121164859

What is a Kwacker?

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164871#Comment_121164871

That would be nearly every passenger round these parts.

There are three villages in the twenty miles to town.

The Dingle Tralee route is no more densely populated.

I think in the interests of the environment the practicalities need to be considered. Busses are not like trains wearing the wheels and track out at every stopping point, so the fuel used in a few extra start/ stops is going to be totally insignificant compared to taking a car.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164917#Comment_121164917

A variable.

Currently Welsh Harlequins.

It seemed appropriate when I was after advice on various groups for my "kwackers". It's now a collective term covering the goose, ducks, five chickens and a cockerel.

I think I came here after advice a few times.

The name suited, so it "stuck". :-)

StudentDad

I'm not talking about living on the extra leafy side of the Wicklow mountains and to be fair, there's probably a bus that will find you in that neck of the woods. I'm talking about living in a reasonably sized town in Ireland that has no local bus service worth the name. The option should be there for people to get in and out of town, quickly, cheaply and reliably (without having to rely on friends or family or the kindness of strangers) our towns are amenities for all the community. Not just those of us who are able to put a car on the road.

Thinkingaboutit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121139809#Comment_121139809

The Irish political system can be good for representing some voices, but by God it means that if a party has a TD with an uncertain electoral support, he or she will listen careful to NIMBY and other such people who are likeliest to vote. Hydrogen has great potential and there's a car or two in certain markets, but indeed, not for decades.

Politicians and senior civil servants all have parking, fine cars and the usual perks. The supposed Thatcher quote about older public transport users being failures at life would be said quietly by them.

=

tom1ie

I think a lot of investment will have to go into the orbital routes for BC to really work well.

By investment I mean:

ANPR cameras (which are needed now anyway)

QBC’s

tag on tag off facilities that you can use your phone on.

cashless to reduce dwell time.

An example of how bad things are is if I wanted to go from where I live in rathfarnham to family in clondalkin- it can take me 50- 1hr 16min on PT vs 15 mins in my car.

That’s just not going to convince anyone to change.

Or example 2:

rathfarnham to Dundrum shopping centre 1hr 51min- 2hr 7 mins at 20:24 as I search on the TFI journey planner.

That takes no more than 20 mins in a car!

Yes it’s outside of peak frequency but there would be no traffic on the road either vs early on in the day when frequency is higher.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121166236#Comment_121166236

Rathfarnham Village to Dundrum Town Centre is no more than 20 mins on the 75 and 12-15 mins on the 17, plus an 8 minute walk.

Those journey times that you're quoting are baloney.

Edit re your first point:

Regarding the first trip, again the point that I made earlier - how many people are making the exact trip from Rathfarnham to Clondalkin that you are doing? Not enough I'd wager to warrant a extra bus route over the S6 & W2 (currently the 75 & 76).

When it comes to orbital journeys there are limits to what public transport can deliver as everyone has different starting points and ending points. They have to serve traffic generators along the routes to get backsides on seats.

The S6 will be every 15 minutes, doubling the frequency of the 75 so that will help in terms of connections at Tallaght, and the W2 will be every 15 minutes as well. That makes it more feasible than the current situation as there will be less waiting time.

But there will always be trips where the car will be faster or more suitable. People have to have realistic expectations.