Dundrum Village closing 26/09

Viscount Aggro

County councillors vote on road closures by this date, unless public voice their opposition.

https://www.change.org/p/say-no-to-dundrum-local-area-plan

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058314524/dundrum-village-closing-26-09

“Furthermore, the proposed road closures will put unnecessary strain on families/ working parents trying to navigate the twice-daily school-run”

maybe the locals should leave the car at home and walk or cycle to the local schools…..

Larbre34

I think the plan is a massive liberty, but I have to say the rogue's gallery of upper middle aged white people does little to help their cause! 😆

LXFlyer

There's an awful lot of hot air being spouted about this, when the road elements of it are principally about improving the bus service for the whole area. Many of the objectors are older people who, sadly, like many in the country, have been conditioned into using their car for every single journey rather than setting foot on public transport as a result of complete a lack of proper investment in said public transport over decades by one government after another.

Dundrum Village is not being closed under this plan. It might be somewhat harder for motorists to make certain local journeys, but sadly the improved bus service is being ignored by the people agitating for this.

The bus service in Dundrum is going to be increasing under BusConnects and there are going to have to some changes to deal with that regardless of whether people like it or not.

I have my own misgivings, particularly about the displaced bus termini under the current plan, rather than having a proper bus station interchange facility adjacent to Dundrum LUAS stop. But some of the reaction has been been beyond hyperbolic in nature.

BlueSkyDreams

I think the largest local objection here is a kickback against the council and their high rise apartment plans.

The new development plan paves the way for the 16 storey blocks to be approved & it appears a lot of the locals are not happy about that.

Does seem odd that Dundrum and Sandyford can have greater height density buildings than the Docklands.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151020#Comment_121151020

Absolutely, and that I can understand.

But some of the comments about the roads and the bus gates are bizarre.

Even this thread title is wrong and misleading.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151020#Comment_121151020

I wouldn’t say a lot of locals.

id say a few very vocal ones

Larbre34

I am very impressed with two things. One, the investment that has gone into the opposition movement here. Not sure I've ever seen dedicated online TV and podcasts in opposition to an LAP and what is ostensibly one small site. Its maybe the most South Dublin thing I've heard.

The second thing that impresses me, is the level of utter horsesh*t that this whole effort of opposition has generated.

But nonetheless, the local elections are 8 months away and so I expect a massive can kicking exercise to let the next Council be the ones to deal substantively with this.

Viscount Aggro

Its a small site?

Mate, it's probably worth a half billion developed.

The main issue here is, elected councillors not doing their job.

900 submissions on the LAP... 75% against the plan.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164914#Comment_121164914

How are the councillors not doing their job?

Not disagreeing with you, but I dont know what you mean.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164914#Comment_121164914

And how many of those people actually took the time to read the LAP, or read an independent report on it, or are they swallowing what one individual is telling them?

I certainly wouldn't call the hysterical posts on Facebook by "Dundrum Resident" as independent - they're going way OTT on the buses for a start.

Councillors do read these reports and have to take a considered view on them. That's why we elect them.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164914#Comment_121164914

They did their job, they passed a County Development Plan with housing objectives included that were imposed by the Department of Housing and Local Government and so 900 odd homes are going to be built on the old Dundrum Shopping Centre along with some other changes to the fabric of Dundrum to improve its salubriousness.

These opponents are wasting their breath.

Tarabuses

Is it not their job to take account of the views of their constituents?

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121181499#Comment_121181499

Ate the views not a mixed bag though?

Some in favour, some not.

What are the implications to car access beyond the restrictions that are already in place?

LXFlyer

Most of the measures are there to facilitate the increased bus services that are coming under BusConnects and to try and improve the flow of buses through the area.

There are three measures that restrict car access:

• A bus gate on Ballinteer Road in both directions on Ballinteer Road at the junction with the Main Street
• Sydenham Road to become one way southbound
• Kilmacud Road Upper to be one way eastbound between Sydenham Road and Overend Way

There will also be a bus gate in front of the library to allow buses get from the Main Street to the new terminus on the north side of Upper Churchtown Road.

Also, the Wyckham Way roundabout at the junction with the Dundrum Bypass is to become a signalised junction

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121181918#Comment_121181918

Thanks.

I didnt know about the roundabout change. Interesting.

So the roundabout at Dundrum Bypass/entrance to the shopping centre and petrol station will be removed and replaced with traffic lights?

Whats the logic there?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121181499#Comment_121181499

You can throw any hope of good planning out the window if every campaign that collects a pile of signatures gets their own way.

Councilors can take into account all views while making their own considered decision.

When you see the number of FB comments telling us that it is all part of the WEF controlled movement to lock us all down to 15 minute cities, you realise that taking views into account needs a fair degree of flexibility.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183244#Comment_121183244

Are the complaints not more about rezoning Dundrum for high rise developments, rather than traffic related village issues?

I know some vested interest business owners want the traffic aspect reversed, but I thought the bigger issue was rezoning Dundrum itself to accomodate high rise apartments that wouldnt get planning in the Docklands today.

Viscount Aggro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183187#Comment_121183187

Have you tried getting onto the roundabout from the bypass? Nobody will stop, unless you want to cause a pile-up.

xaforb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183486#Comment_121183486

That's true and the same still applies to the residential estates on the link road from the M50 to the Wesley Roundabout. Nobody will stop to allow them out.

However, traffic lights at the Bypass Roundabout will worsen the overall situation especially at weekends and the likes of Christmas. At that junction there will have to be so many lights sequences that there will be massive tailbacks, blockages on the other sides of the roundabout and with knock-on effects at the nearby junction with Sandyford Road.

Dundrum was always going to be developed but the biggest mistake was allowing a huge Shopping Centre to be squeezed into a small village with little space for vehicular access and no proper public transport with resultant and easily predictable traffic chaos.

The J Stands for Jay

Like most areas with traffic issues, enforcement is what's sorely lacking. Red light cameras would be a massive step on the right direction for the area.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184246#Comment_121184246

No proper public transport? Luas? 14 bus? 75 bus? 175 bus?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184379#Comment_121184379

They're all tied in together. Yer man opposite the library who spent a sh1tload doing up his own house doesn't want to be looking out his windows at apartments, so thousands of people can just feck off with their hopes and dreams of getting somewhere to live. He's formed an unholy alliance with the doctor and pharmacist who want to stop people for getting any healthier, and the pub and off-licence owners who reckon that everyone drives.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183486#Comment_121183486

Yes, I agree. But I cant see that the traffic lights being added wont do anything other than further delay the traffic and cause more tailbacks.

Unless the plan is to prioritise PT bus routes here at the expense of cars.

Viscount Aggro

They will have signal controls at this roundabout.

Its a system called a Dutch roundabout. It will prioritise bikes, buses and slow down cars.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183486#Comment_121183486

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184246#Comment_121184246

Are people exaggerating some of these difficulties in making progress? Yes, the roundabout is often busy, very busy in rush hour and on wet weekend afternoons, but it IS possible to get through from any direction. It might take a minute or two in the queue, and maybe a minute or two trying to get out, but it's really not impossible. There's often one or two idiots who jam up the roundabout by stopping in the yellow box, but again, they do tend to move off in a minute or too. 

Same applies to traffic coming out of Woodpark or College Park onto Ballinteer Road. I would often let out one person without impacting the flow of traffic. It's rare to see more than two cars waiting to come out of any exit.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184580#Comment_121184580

thanks.

How does it prioritise buses without enabling a bus lane though?

Viscount Aggro

Signal will stop car flow, when bus enters the roundabout.

Same priority will be given for pedallists, bipeds and active travel users, such as cargo bikes.

Trigger Happy

I watched the presentation and lots of what the propose is exciting and will add to the area. Expecially from main street down to the former CMH.

But I really am not sure about the plans for tighter junctions on wyckham way. I get that it will make it easier and safer for pedestrians and cyclists and will ease bus movement but it does not really address the key issue which is a high volume of cars using that road. Its a main artery off the M50 servicing a massive shopping centre and onwards southward.

Its a mess at rush hour (except during school holidays). Its a mess from December until mid january with christmas shoppers. Slowing down car traffic will not reduce it by much - it will just make more traffic jams which will be a big degredation compared to what we have today. I dunno - maybe it will work. Apart from that I do like the plans for the area.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183187#Comment_121183187

Can I suggest that you check out Chapter 4 (page 48) in the document linked to below. All of the transport plans and their rationale are set out in that document.

https://dlrcoco.citizenspace.com/planning/draft_dundrum_lap/supporting_documents/DLAPDraft%20Plan%20Document.pdf

Also, the revised bus routes for Dundrum under BusConnects are here:

https://busconnects.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/dundrum-area-map.pdf

Planned frequencies are here - I’d expect one or both of the A2 & A4 to be 24 hour routes.

https://busconnects.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/a3-frequency-tables-061020-fa.pdf

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185396#Comment_121185396

It will stop car flow on the other roads leading to the roundabout you mean?

i.e. if bus approaches from Dundrum Bypass, signals will stop car traffic moving along Wyckham Way, East & West?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184379#Comment_121184379

Well for starters, a centre like Dundrum should have been required to facilitate a proper bus station, with bus stands and passenger waiting facilities like the new ones being built at Liffey Valley, Blanchardstown, and Tallaght.

A much wider and more frequent network of orbital and local routes should have been a pre-requisite. The centre was designed with car users in mind, not public transport. There’s no bus shelters at any stop aside around the Town Centre from the northbound stop on Sandyford Road and at Dundrum Church. Frequencies and reliability on the orbital routes 75 and 175 aren’t anywhere near sufficient - 30 or 60 minute frequency is nowhere near enough. Their reliability for significant periods of time has been dreadful.

BusConnects does address some of that with better frequencies and coverage.

However, for anyone travelling to/from Dundrum Town Centre from points west of Rathfarnham or Ballyboden, it will be a downgrade as neither of the replacements for the 75 or 175 will directly serve the stops adjacent to the Town Centre.

Those passengers currently using the 175 to get to Dundrum (a route that is often full to/from the west at Dundrum) will now have to change to a 74 on Grange Road from the S8 or walk across to the 14 at Broadford Road (until the A2 launches) to get there. The S8 will not serve Dundrum at all.

The S6 which replaces the 75 west of Rathfarnham will serve stops at Taney Road and will not serve the stops on Ballinteer Road by the Town Centre. People will have to walk from Taney Road.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185593#Comment_121185593

Sounds like a great way to encourage more car drivers to Dundrum from Rathfarnham etc.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185746#Comment_121185746

It's points west of Rathfarnham or Ballyboden that are the issue.

The 75 / S6 passengers will probably cope, but the 175 passengers to/from Dundrum are being shafted by this.

The 74 will link Rathfarnham with Dundrum Town Centre, as will the A2 and A4 in due course.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185796#Comment_121185796

Thanks.

The roundabout change seems Interesting. I still dont see how it will prioritise the bus when there will likley be buses approaching the roundabout from multiple directions and those buses will be sharing their lanes with mostly cars.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185821#Comment_121185821

The only buses that will be using the roundabout when these changes come in will be the L25 (4 per hour), L33 (infrequent), 74 (2 per hour), and the 87 & 88 (both hourly) southbound from the Dundrum bypass and the 74 eastbound from Wyckham Way (2 per hour).

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185925#Comment_121185925

Thanks. So Dundrum itself wont really see that many buses anyway, at least south of the village.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186024#Comment_121186024

Well remember that the A2 and A4 will operate along the current 14 routing through Dundrum from the roundabout on Ballinteer Road at Barton Road at a combined frequency of every 6 minutes.

The other routes in my previous post will use Sandyford Road and the Main Street when heading north.

Viscount Aggro

Who will be operating these new routes?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186112#Comment_121186112

Dublin Bus and GoAhead - remember the entire network is changing and the new routes will replace the current network.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185593#Comment_121185593

Lookit, it's far from perfect, but I'd guess that the current Luas/bus stops are probably closer to DTC than the bus station at LV is to the LV shops!

There's certainly lots of room for improvement, but there ARE very decent public transport connections at present.

Vim Fuego

I can't seem to find this but did the council actually vote on this by now? I can only find articles relating to the protests.

I've lived in the general area for a few years and I think it's great how you are so close to services/shops etc. If any place can do this 10 minute city idea, it's here. I was previously living in a more rural location and it was brutal having to rely on the car for everything.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188757#Comment_121188757

But, but read the Facebook comments, it's all part of the WEF controlled takeover of Dundrum, to give all the apartments to the bloody immigrants.

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131486#Comment_121131486

Don't know anything about this and don't care.

Just wondering why it's ok to make fun of people because of their ethnicity or socio economic background?

I thought that wasn't accepted on boards.

Viscount Aggro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188796#Comment_121188796

I would love to know your true identity.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189263#Comment_121189263

Is there anything factually incorrect in anything that I've said?

jhansynk10

I live in the area, I'll tell you exactly what happened here. One of the residents houses is at the corner of the bypass and across from the Dundrum library where they plan to put the new bus corridor. His house is also going to be in the shadow of the new block in the old tc once it's built. He's gone and organised a number of local business people in the village who will be impacted by the reduction of traffic through the town to mobilise the older community members against the plan. It's me feinism to the nth degree with no consideration for other residents.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188757#Comment_121188757

Its already a "10 minute" city though.

Viscount Aggro

The fact that you have made defamatory statements earlier, that by deduction, anyone can work out who you are referring to.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189328#Comment_121189328

What statements from me were incorrect?

BTW, accusing me of making defamatory statements is defamatory in itself. Tread carefully.

Vim Fuego

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189326#Comment_121189326

Yeah, but all the objections are "we need our cars/our businesses will die without cars" etc. The advantages of the 10 minute city concept to me is actually having less cars and all the negatives that come along with them.