Freely (free UK IPTV service from BBC/ITV/C4/C5)

decor58

Everyone tv have announced they are to launch an internet app, Freely, in 2024, it will incorporate BBC,ITV, C4, C5, to allow online viewing of the UK PSB's.

Mod: I’ve changed the thread title, most people won’t know what Everyone TV (the organisation formerly known as Digital UK is)

Esho

Do you know if it needs a VPN to use it here?

decor58

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121124897#Comment_121124897

It has only been announced, the detail will come in time, the PSB's are driving it, so their channels may remain free but others may join and have issues with non UK access.

icdg

BBC press release

https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/2023/uks-leading-psbs-set-to-evolve-free-tv-for-streaming-age

The name’s a bit silly, though I get they wanted to keep with the Freeview/Freesat naming theme.

Not a hope it won’t be georestricted to UK/IOM/Jersey/Guernsey IP addresses I’m afraid.

Theres a number of interesting points here, not least does this represent the eventual replacement for Freesat & Freeview and potential end of UK FTA TV being available here? The legacy platforms will probably be around another decade at least, so probably the answer is “not just yet”.

galtee boy

There is absolutely no doubt that this service will be geo blocked as icdg has said, if it isn't, anyone, anywhere in the world would have access to it and the BBC, ITV etc would run into trouble with programme rights restrictions etc. Eventually, this will replace Freesat and maybe Freeview, just as Sky will eventually ditch the dish for Sky Stream. How long is a piece of string is the answer as to when, but I reckon the tv world as we know it, will be a different place in 5 to 10 years time.

SPDUB

The name’s a bit silly, though I get they wanted to keep with the Freeview/Freesat naming theme.

The jokes have started already

I have seen it described as IP Freely 😀

decor58

The Channel 4 app has apparently returned to Freesat today, after a five year absence. This is probably in preparation for the launch of Freely next year.

waywill1966

Yes I see that and it works in Ireland

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121182432#Comment_121182432

Channel 4 aren't funded from the UK TV license so don't have the same sort of issues here as BBC or ITV

icdg

Neither are ITV, although the point is otherwise taken. ITV’s lack of availability here has more to do with its deal with VM (and it was widely available here on pay TV, other than on Sky, up to 31st December 2014).

Channel 4 a long time ago sorted out their ROI rights, including them in contracts. Still some issues with sports but otherwise they clear ROI rights to all their programmes.

Now to let you on a little secret; so does BBC, with respect a large chunk of their programmes, and that’s becoming an issue.

Schorpio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204004#Comment_121204004

This is true. BBC gets paid for the carriage of their channels by Irish providers, and following Brexit the BBC had to get it's domestic services licensed in Luxembourg for continued transmission in the EU.

I always find it slightly amusing the extent to which RoI viewers are not acknowledged by the programming, despite the BBC being 100% aware of the RoI audience. The was some piece about Irish squirrels on Winterwatch last year, and Northern Irish viewers were encouraged to email the program with any sightings.....no hint of welcoming any emails from RoI residents!

As for the new IPTV service being a potential replacement of Freesat - I don't see that happening ever to be honest. Freesat's whole purpose is to reach the most remote areas of the UK. Until the UK has 100% fiber broadband coverage to anyone who wants it, Freesat will be with us.

TAFKAlawhec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121214572#Comment_121214572

The BBC's domestic services have always been focused on a domestic UK (plus Isle of Man & Channel Isles - i.e. the "licence fee paying" area) audience - while the Northern Irish sub region does give some acknowledgement to certain events in the Republic especially in counties along the border (e.g. the Cresslough explosion, plus Donegal, Cavan & Monaghan in the Ulster GAA SFC), the UK unit as a whole very rarely asks for any interaction outside of the UK - off the top of my head, the very rare occasions GB based programmes have asked of outside-UK interaction has included phoneline numbers for donations to charitable events e.g. Children In Need. They don't even usually give acknowledgements to viewers watching their channels via BFBS abroad either. TBF, it's no different to RTÉ pretty much not acknowledging viewers & listeners of their services in Great Britain (particularly the western coast of Wales where many can receive DTT & FM radio from across the Irish Sea).

As for Freely - the latest figures I seen show that ~97% of premises in the UK can get an internet download speed of at least 30 Mbps via a "landline" either through FTTC or FTTP. For the roughly 3% outside that figure, many can avail of an alternative provision to obtain an average download speed of at least 30Mbps by alternative delivery e.g. 4G mobile, fixed wireless access or LEO satellite. Also, the current Astra geostationary satellites at 28E won't last forever - the youngest of the satellites up there, Astra 2G, has a planned service life to 2030 (could end up being a little less or more). No one seems to know for sure right now if any replacements are planned for that orbital slot, which will likely be decided by how long Sky will keep going with its satellite service. While another satellite from the SES fleet could be slotted into 28E in a few years time to provide a pan-Europe footprint to keep Sky's services going once 2E/F/G are out of service, Freesat's needs are more nuanced as they need the tight spot beam for free-to-air BBC, ITV, Ch4 & Ch5 broadcasts. I don't think anything in this regard can be deemed for certain at this time.

Schorpio

A few interesting points there.

I don't think the BBC/RTE situation is equivalent. While yes you can receive RTE via overspill, RTENL doesn't sell it's services into mainland Britain. The only area of the UK which can officially receive RTE's services is NI, and this is acknowledged more often than not. Competitions etc. usually provide a localised NI number for entering. Technically there would be nothing stopping anyone in the UK using this.

Regarding the broadband points, 30Mbps VDSL would be very tight for a TV and data service. 4G/5G is not reliable or stable enough for a fixed TV service. LEO satellite would require making a deal with Starlink, and doesn't make sense (just going from using one satellite to another). Fixed wireless, maybe.

I think you're right when you say that the future of Freesat isn't certain, but I think it's going to be with us for a long time yet.

mackersdublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121244407#Comment_121244407

But the four RTÉ Radio stations are on Freesat (750-753) and Sky (0137-0140), while Virgin Media in the UK have access to RTE Radio 1 (917), while in NI, both RTÉ One and RTÉ2 are on Virgin Media 875 and 876

Schorpio

Yes, I was referring to TV only. Radio is far less restrictive - most providers let you listen to their live services globally via the internet.

My post covered the fact that RTE TV is available in NI.

decor58

In a related move and direction ITV are to launch themed FAST channels in the UK and internationally, the March of progress.

decor58

Virgin Media Ireland Sky have agreed a wholesale deal giving Sky access to the VM cable network, does this mean Sky broadband and tv across the VM network, another step on the IPTV road.

waywill1966

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247479#Comment_121247479

https://www.itv.com/presscentre/media-releases/itv-studios-announces-new-global-fast-channels

More detail about this!

icdg

No mention of Ireland there, and I presume there can’t be given ITV’s deal with VMTV.

I’m not sure what the VM/Sky deal has to do with this thread tbh. Sky Stream can be used on VM broadband already, it’s not tied to any particular BB provider.

decor58

The Hisence tv brand has been announced as the first brand, in the UK market, to have the Freely app on board for the 2024 range.

The logo for Freely was unveiled as well today.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236950#Comment_121236950

I wonder is it a bit disengenuous to consider Freely as being "free". For Freeview and Freesat you have the once off cost of installing an aerial or a dish and that's it. Freely needs broadband to work, and there's no such thing as "free" broadband, whether that's landline or 4G/5G etc. I'd expect this type of argument to crop up if there's any move towards ending Freeview or Freesat.

decor58

Given that we in general won't experience the service here, being geoblocked, what would be the likelihood of a similar service here. The terrestrial broadcasts will continuefor many years to come, could it replace Saorsat. What are the costs involved, for the small number of channels,very unlikely that VM would be interested.

Schorpio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121493171#Comment_121493171

Chances of an IPTV service replacing Saorsat is effectively zero.

Saorsat is only meant to be a remote infill service. The remotest areas are unlikely to have a decent, reliable broadband connection.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121493171#Comment_121493171

There's this from the RTE strategy document "New Directions" published a while back. Talks about what looks like to be some sort of hybrid Saorview service due to launch in 2025.

decor58

It will be interesting to see what and when the development comes along and who gets involved.

Grey123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236950#Comment_121236950

I think there is a big difference between "can get" and have.

Broadband isn't free (or often even cheap) and probably something older less well off may skip.

As someone said I don't think it be sold to the public as free. How many services could be fully online but still have other options due to some peoples needs.

TAFKAlawhec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516475#Comment_121516475

There is of course no such equivalent as "free-to-air" when it comes to streaming television (at least at present - something could change in the future, but it's hard to know exactly what right now), however broadband availability in both Ireland & the UK is now very close to being ubiquitous in the same way mains electric is as being a general utility for the present age - it's essentially replaced the landline phone in this aspect.

In addition, those in the UK on certain government benefits can take advantage of heavily discounted broadband "social tariffs" which off the top of my head start at £12 per month for a 40 M/bit down & 10 M/bit up (maximum) VDSL2 or FTTP broadband service from Vodafone (with an ADSL service where neither VDSL or FTTP isn't available), while its sister MVNO arm Voxi offers a similar social tariff giving unlimited mobile internet for £10 per month (this is only supposed to be for a six month period, but customers whom have been on this service say that Vodafone have yet to change things after the six month period - so far). Even for those whom don't qualify for such tariffs in the UK, some shopping around for deals can often get them the same speeds or above for ~£20 or so either via landline/FTTP or 4G/5G mobile with unlimited data. I'm not aware of any such social tariff schemes in the Republic, but I stand to be corrected if there is.

Of course, "cheap" is subjective, but general broadband access these days is quantitatively cheaper than it was some years ago - when I first got ADSL broadband (with download speeds of 512 k/bit that was blistering compared to dial-up!) in 2004 it cost me UK£23.49 per month, and that was considered a good deal back then - when you add it to inflation for 2023, that's now over UK£40 per month - and that cost didn't include landline rental either. Whereas right now, I'm paying UK£15 per month of a 150/30 FTTP service.

But going back to (linear) broadcast television, I suspect that some form of free-to-air or at least free-to-view linear television access will exist for some years to come, even if it's just RTÉ or BBC radiating a single channel service. I don't know wherever it would last the longest as either via terrestrial or satellite transmission, but eventually there will come a point that the amount of people/households relying on it will come to such a small number that it will no longer be deemed cost effective to continue providing such a service - a bit like how outside of Spain and Romania, MW & LW radio is either dead or dying as next to no one is relying on it. All public provisions have to have a "best effort" means when it comes to service provision, and broadcast television won't be immune from it.

The Cush

I think we'll see linear FTA 5g/6g broadcasting within the next decade, from existing High Tower High Power sites with interaction via local mobile sites. Converging of OTA and mobile tech

Trials have been in underway for a number of years at this stage

icdg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490796#Comment_121490796

There’s some suggestion that it will only be on smart tvs and only new ones - ie you’d need to buy a whole new tv to get it. Not sure what the rationale for that is, but it would indicate that Freeview and Freesat probably aren’t going anywhere for a decade at least.

decor58

Yeah, it does say on the 2024 range, so yes if that's the case it could be a slow take up. I don't know what the life cycle of tvs are now, some used to say 5-7 years, technology may have reduced that now but it could still lead to a slow take up. It also depends on how many other manufacturers get on board, or if the app could be adapted into existing models, would the app be that complex. I see also where some French DTT channels have been incorporated into the Samsung plus facility.

icdg

I’m led to believe it’s a strategic led decision rather than a tech led one. But let’s see what unfolds.

Tax The Farmers

One massive issue with the shift to broadband as the sole (or main) platform of TV delivery is how national PSB's are funded.

As things stand The TV licence model is looking like a quaint anachronism but once conventional TV dies off it's looking pretty much doomed.

Radio broadcasting is probably going to need an even more radical rethink. With thousands of available services will current concepts of local/national services (and the associated regulatory regime) be rendered obsolete?

TAFKAlawhec

Radio broadcasting will probably be around in broadcast form for longer than its television counterpart, simply because of the portable/mobile mature of radio broadcasting that is still very popular compared to video.

Other than South Korea & Japan, people watching TV programmes when travelling hasn't caught on really anywhere else in the world and definitely not in the same way radio broadcasts have done for decades. Of course there is podcasts, but that in itself doesn't directly threaten "live" programming. OTOH live video either as a streaming of as a "linear"/FAST service is one that people usually use when in a settled location (usually at home, hotel etc.) and not when on the move.

Twenty years ago there was plenty of talk about DVB-H, MediaFLO, 1seg etc. but other than the aforementioned Asian countries, it's all pretty much dead - probably because if your eyes are concentrating on a screen it can't concentrate on anything else.

reboot

Recent viewing of youtube , lots of rubbish of course,but some of the world's leading scientific minds are avaible, and hard to find amongst the mainstream TV broadcasters.? As pointed out above,maybe the lifespan of yogis and Txs,is not as long as we thought?

TAFKAlawhec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121581173#Comment_121581173

General lifespan of VHF & UHF transmitters are around 25 years give or take a few either way - I don't know about RTÉNL/2RN but when DSO was being carried out in the UK some anecdotal reports suggested that some of the analogue TXs were on their last legs, in one case a (Channel 4?) transmitter that was installed back in the 80's was kept from switching off because of overheating thanks to a fan from Argos!

TX transmitting aerials often outlast their transmitter counterparts, even though a good few of them were changed at DSO/ATO mainly to meet different directional requirements. I know that the old analogue UHF TX aerials at Brougher Mountain has been left in reserve when a new UHF TX antenna was placed on the second tower, while the current BBC mixed polarity VHF Band II radio aerial must be coming up to 40 years old with no sign of replacement (it was installed in 1984 IIRC, replacing an old horizontal polarised setup which was originally installed back in the early 60's).

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121586643#Comment_121586643

Yes, it was said at the time that Channel 4 were running on their original transmitters right up until ASO. Some weren't in the best shape by the end.

reboot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121586643#Comment_121586643

I read they couldn't find replacement for the two large o/p valves?, for the Droitwich radio Tx.,and remember seeing the fish pond with Koa using the warm water from Divis.

bazilsul

Will it be possible to access this Freely app from Ireland using a VPN?

icdg

There’s no discussion on circumventing regional restrictions.

reboot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121551497#Comment_121551497

Seem to remember back then ,USA went for satellite radio,a pay service with great coverage,think it used AM,I asked questions at the time,but seems we went to Dab,say no more!

decor58

BBC has announced that, later this year, it is to launch BBC NEWS as a FAST channel on a number of platforms in the US. Samsung tv and other brands to carry the channel will double access to the channel, maybe in time they will launch in Europe.

reboot

Interesting, my Samsung TV ,came with 90 channels over the Net.

decor58

BBC have announced that the next Series of Doctor Who is to be available in 4K on the iplayer, another step in the online direction, for viewers with the right equipment of course.

reboot

Think the move is certainly on to get a lot of technology on-line.

Someone's asked Patrick on his daily Vetted podcast on YouTube, about his

technical set up in the "Studio", and what type of camera he uses on his daily show.

He replied "It's a Smart phone"

Hard to believe,the quality is fine and better than some pictures I see from some of my local broadcasters.

decor58

Another move in the online direction has been announced by Astra 19 operator SES in Germany. The move will see about 100 channels, currently available via satellite by the HD+ service, being made available via an app from an IP subsidiary of SES. The app will be available on Samsung tvs from 2021 models with the the current HD+ app, the app will be updated, so Samsung tv owners can access the range of 100 fta channels via satellite or Internet.

decor58

A hands on review of the the Freely app has been published on Cordbusters.co.uk, makes for interesting reading. The channels available at launch will be the Freely partner broadcasters, BBC, ITV, C4, C5 and STV, others may sign up before final launch date, on demand will connect to the respective apps, rather than directly through the Freely app, there is no record facility either on board or cloud. Some changes might be available in time but it doesn't look like a replacement for the existing fta r subscription services.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122059222#Comment_122059222

Link to that Cordbusters review.

https://www.cordbusters.co.uk/freely-hands-on-review-freeview-future/

Must say I'm rather underwhelmed reading it. Only on new TVs for now. No date for future Freely capable STBs. Older TVs and STBs won't get it. There will be a Freely app for mobile devices, but all that will do is mimic the current Freeview app which links to the iPlayer etc apps on your device, if you have them. Seems like the whole thing will be gradually phased in rather than a big bang approach. Hardly anybody will be rushing out to buy a new TV just to get Freely me thinks.

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122063901#Comment_122063901

DTT is guaranteed until the end of 2030, UHF spectrum is to be reviewed at WRC-31.

It's likely DTT will be around for at least a decade more, so there is time for this transition to take place.

The rollout of high speed broadband to the most rural areas will have to be included in that plan too, be it fibre or 5G/6G wireless.

decor58

The final line up at launch for Freely has been announced, BBC, ITV, C4, C5, STV, about 20 channels in all, not the lineup some were expecting but it is early days and has been said terrestrial and satellite will be around for a while yet, so no rush. It will be interesting to see the take up by manufacturers, the public and broadcasters. I wonder what the Freely charges are like and how they compare with Freeview, Freesat and stand alone apps. Saorview/ 2rn will be watching closely no doubt.

The Cush

Rxtv article

https://rxtvinfo.com/2024/freely-full-channel-list-revealed/