Is the UK now giving off strong Third World vibes?

mariaalice

I have family in the UK some of this is hilarious especially, the

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107354#Comment_121107354

Have you heard of Mick Lynch

mariaalice

I have family in the UK some of the comments here are funny there is no way you can compare the south of England to parts of the north of England the poverty is jaw-dropping and not like you see here.

The NHS is being subtly cut away at, for example, a family member phoned their GP practice to get a procedure done by the nurse and was told we only see people who are in pain from the issue now, but they can go privately and get it done for 60. That is how it happens.

K-9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121116039#Comment_121116039

Probably more the exception to the rule though. Union membership has halved from Maggie's time when 13 million were members of unions . It's actually worse than that because the population and labour force are bigger compared to 1979.

I'd say a better way of looking at the power of unions in the UK rather than Lynch, would be nurses. Their pay over from 2010 to 19 fell by 6% in real terms. I'd say Irish nurses would be better looked after in that regard.

I think unions in the UK have gone from having way too much power, the UK motor industry anyone? (obviously not all their fault) to very little.

K-9

I'd recommend Chums by Simon Kuper for a good analysis of why the UK and the Tory party is where it is. Basically it's about Oxford, particularly from the late 80's on, so Boris, Cameron, Rees Mogg, Gove, May, Daniel Hannan and the birth of Brexit and the ERG.

His theory as an Oxford graduate himself is that, unlike old school Conservatives from the likes of Ted Heath who fought in the war, modern Tories don't have a greater good, something bigger than themselves. So alot of those old Tories served in wars (some infamously), but most had some experience of working with common, ordinary people.

Now you've Rishi, and we famously had Cameron and Boris, f***ing pigs, wrecking restaurants for the hell of it, and slave auctions. So these privileged desciples of Maggie from 1980's Oxford got to the late 2000's, out of their natural, god given position position governing the country, with 12 years of New Labour.

Then you've an EU gaining more power and sovereignty over the UK. Who are they taking power away from? The hereditary rulers of the future, who have a birth right to rule.

How we got from that to here, that's a story for another day.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121123435#Comment_121123435

You're some blast from the past! I wasn't expecting to see you posting again.

indioblack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108854#Comment_121108854

"...ultimately both the uk of now and the uk of the 70s aren't great countries to be living in, nothing worked then......"

Well, I did. All through the 70's, the Winter of Discontent, [anyone remember "Sunny Jim" Callaghan as PM?], Thatcher's 80's. We got hit in our industry by the car workers and power workers strikes - but I was young and not overwhelmed by 24 hours news where everyone was "devastated". If the country was going down the drain in the 70's, well it was just part of the wallpaper. My perception is that today the NHS feels like it is in a worse place than it was then - perhaps that's because I'm old now[!]

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121115002#Comment_121115002

That the UK isnt terrible in all worlds. It does serve the average worker better than we do.

Thats all.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107184#Comment_121107184

The unions have been crippled by Maggie and the Tories. There was a lot of legislation brought in after the miners strikes and Grunwick was not a major business, but secondary picketing finished because people wanted to stand up for the poorly paid female migrants who were being exploited.

Of course to the Tories it was good business practice not exploitation.

The Falklands was a miscalculation by Galtieri. Argentina was running things anyway and those with knowledge the place through the civil service informed me that a handover was only a matter of waiting for the right time.

Galtieri was not doing well at home, so he thought a bit of nationalist fighting would boost his popularity. England would have prevented the islands being taken by force anyway, but Maggie was doing badly in the polls, so it was a pretty useful war for her. I would guess that it might have been rectified politically with any other government or even if Maggie had a better standing in the polls herself.

You are spot on that the trouble in the UK is down to her. I was never one to dismiss everything she did as evil, but everything bad stems from her time as PM.

Even Mad Cow was down to her. A nice cheap way of getting more protein into cattle was using scrapie infected sheep offal. Even the Quran warned against the practice of feeding animal products to ruminants centuries back.

She was a "trickle down" fanatic who was chummy with Reagan and his "trickle down" philosophy also. His treatment of the religious crackpots in the US seems to have left them badly afflicted by a Conservative dogma too.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121124338#Comment_121124338

It clearly doesn't. Unless you're in the top 20% or so, you're better off in Ireland IMO.

K-9

Not sure about Reagan but Bush Junior and Karl Rowe (his advisor) went after the evangelical vote hard. Kind of reminds me of Cummings (Oxford again) targeting the Red Wall and other places for Brexit. He got voters that traditionally wouldn't vote, to fill out postal votes. Thanks to Cambridge analytica.

Cal4567

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121112215#Comment_121112215

Turning that around, our local authorities should be doing that but they don't, and we end up with much lower expectations.

mariaalice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121124338#Comment_121124338

What your evidence for this?

mariaalice

I'm amused at the posters who live in the south of England and say its all grand. The UK is not a third world country by any means, London is a economic power house and one of tbe worlds great cities. The UK is a functioning democracy but parts are absolutely poorer there here.

Shoog

I am English by Birth and would never willingly go back to that **** hole of a country.

Modulok

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100879#Comment_121100879

Oh ffs. So does Norway, Sweden, Spain, Belgium and the Netherlands. Are they third world too?

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121124893#Comment_121124893

To be fair, most of the countries that have King Charles as their monarch are in the developing world. So while having a king may not be a third world kind of thing to do, having King Charles arguably is. 😉

tabby aspreme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121124893#Comment_121124893

The subjects in the above mentioned countries don't Kowtow to their Monarchy, like the British do

goodlad_ourvlad

I never got the whole GP appointment issue in the UK... other than being an inconvenience that I can't ring up and get answered and an appointment straight away....

if it's anything urgent just call 111 and they'll triage you there or book you into an urgent care clinic.

Have used it for the young lad numerous times, most recent was an allergic reaction which wasn't life threatening, but very uncomfortable...

Call 111 at 1715, was home and all with a prescription after being to an urgent care clinic and out of hours chemist by 2130... all free of charge

you wouldn't get that in Ireland, even with premium health insurance.

edit: was given the urgent care clinic appointment for 2015, was seen within 10 mins, so wasn't as if we were sitting round somewhere, were able to chill and get dinner etc.. sorted

goodlad_ourvlad

also, if you are general minimum wage worker.... Ireland is a far better place than the UK due to the benefits you can receive...

UK used to make sense 10 years ago with exchange rate, cost of living and taxes etc... across all bands, but is only of any benefit now from upper end of middle class upwards.

goodlad_ourvlad

Also re: water quality

yeah it's joke, but it's only being highlighted as the water companies were looking for more money from the government, where they aren't providing the service they're paid to do currently (there's also water taxes over here).

It's a bit like an Uno reverse name and shame.... the government should have been policing it, which they weren't, so instead of them taking the flak, they're making a huge drama about the companies arn't being run correctly

Ireland is in no way immune to this either, Sandymount and Dollymount wee under a no swim order due to sewage earlier in the week.

Beaches and Bathing Water Quality | Dublin City Council

I also found the UK to use water facilities a lot more than the Irish do (it's cold I know) , so you get a lot more people kicking up a fuss when they can't use it, than you would in Ireland.

Modulok

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125099#Comment_121125099

Good man, you move those goalposts

mariaalice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125136#Comment_121125136

That's urgent care, but it's different when people are being subtlety encouraged to pay a privite provider for chiropody or getting their ear syringed or pay for any services that use to be free at point of use and paid for by national insurance.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121124552#Comment_121124552

Working here was fine, I think my tax burden was lower than in the UK.

I came post Brexit but liked the place so much I decided to retire early and lived off savings for a couple of years anyway.

There are a far greater number of English accents in my local town, so a lot must find it better here than in the UK.

I certainly never sat down to count the pennies, but the quality of life, the attitudes, everything about Ireland makes a return to Britain unthinkable.

There is far more to life than a wage packet.

I never did get to thank my mother for the greatest gift ever, which was the right to an Irish passport and home:-(

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125271#Comment_121125271

The thing with money is that the people who say it isn't everything tend to be alright. The only reason I'm still here is that I can't get work anywhere else. I'd go tomorrow if I could since my current option is to pay almost a grand a month for a single bedroom in London.

goodlad_ourvlad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125250#Comment_121125250

from someone who went from having to pay 60 eur to just see a GP, let alone any further treatment... to getting majority of services for free, I don't see the issue.

If you want it straight away, sure, go private... if not, wait and you will get it free..

Chiropody and ear waxing is about £50 -£70 ... if that's what your main ailment is, you're from an era of DB pensions, triple locked public pensions from the age of 60 (you'd have been finished work at 55 with a DB scheme) with additional supports, ability to save generously from a blue collar role, something us younger folk who have to work to 68 will never see.

I was told the same about a mole removal ... "it's cosmetic", "NHS won't cover that" etc... had my appointment card 2 weeks later and it of 6 weeks later..

NHS is great in my eyes... that said I never experienced it when it was a more luxurious service.

edit: NHS has always known to be an unsustainable model, but countless governments were afraid to change it, as the grey haired vote is the majority vote... any major change to NHS or pensions is election suicide...

hence the murmurings of a two tier NHS only applicable to younger folk...

If this "I need everything now and free" attitude wasn't so prevalent in the 45 yo + generation in the UK, there wouldn't be the NHS issue.

mariaalice

It's not free nor was it ever free it's paid by national insuranc, free at the point of use is not the same as free. I have family in tbe UK I don't live there. Do you really think it's a luxery service to get chiropody free at the point of use?

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125279#Comment_121125279

I did a lot of work in and around London. My city of Stoke saw thousands set off south on Mondays.

There was plenty of work all over, but the pay was I think better in London.

I hated the place, it was overcrowded, I seemed to end up dealing with the most arrogant people too and would rather spend a lifetime earning peanuts working elsewhere than live there for any length of time.

If you can't find work elsewhere, you must be in a niche job. There was work all over the UK when I left. People were looked on with suspicion though when they moved north, paradoxically the overall aim was to head south to join the overcrowded ratrace!

If the population was that intelligent they wouldn't have had Brexit either.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125623#Comment_121125623

The pay is better, sure but the rents are astronomical. My mate in Liverpool earns a bit more than me but the mortgage on his 4-bed place is less than £100 per month more than my bedroom.

London does inculcate an attitude that it's the centre of everything. I see it myself from time to time. I find it really weird being in the UK but outside London. It's almost like being in another country.

Yeah, my thing is pure niche. I like it but I can't be living with 7 people forever. My sanity will disintegrate. Had to tell my housemates how to close the door last week ffs.

goodlad_ourvlad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125578#Comment_121125578

It's actually primarily tax funded with NI contributions only adding minimal contribution... you can't fund the NHS on NI contributions alone... much like PRSI, NI contributions are also used for a lot of things...

you're twisting the argument, but hey if you want to do it fine. No, chiropody isn't a luxury service and is still free on the NHS if you want to wait.

Luxury service is plenty of beds and care, immediate appointments, smaller waiting lists.

I'm all for a tax rise to gain that type of service back, but it's very much engrained in the majority voter demographic (and your anecdotal evidence showed this quite well) that any tax rise to fund the NHS will be met with a lot of resistance, because the major voter demographic "pAyS tHeIr CoNtRiBuTiOnS" for the service.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125406#Comment_121125406

the NHS is actually a very sustainable model being as cost effective as most other european models.

it's issues are the breaking up into trusts, the outsourcing where ridiculous prices are being charged for services and basic things, issues with procurement of certain things, refusal of the british government to pay staff properly, the mismanagement of money.

before 2010 waiting lists were low, good outcomes were high, and the service was starting to move to engaging in early intervention where possible which is generally more cost effective.

now, waiting lists are at the highest they have ever been, good outcomes that were once high are rather low, staff are leaving in droves and parts of britain have a very unhealthy population.

of course there will never be a 100% perfect NHS, such a health system whether it be the NHS or anything else will never achieve that, but it can absolutely do as good as pre-2010 with proper managing.

but ideology will, like everything else in the UK, see to it's downfall eventually, if not before 2025, then the next time the tories get back in to power, which no doubt they will.