Irish White Privilege......Yeah

magicbastarder

gotta love the spectacle of a bunch of cranky white irish guys arguing about privilege.

or in another way - if you think a group is privileged, the last people you ask about it are members of that group. everyone got where they are through their own hard work.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005280#Comment_121005280

So you advocate for white Irish people to not have this advantage that you have, then.

You want to specifically disadvantage white Irish people?

White Irish children, to be precise.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005273#Comment_121005273

Look at the reality of how travellers interact with the rest of society for context.

I've dealt with huge numbers of Travellers over the years, I've met some very decent ones, but sadly there is a massive problem within their culture regarding criminality, they are disproportionately represented in the prison population. They are incredibly racist, homophobic and misogynistic.

Travellers need to change, and if they do they'll find a welcoming society waiting for them as the decent hard working travellers I've met have found.

I'm delighted you've had such a privileged life, but as a fellow white Irish male I can't say I've had a similar experience nor have most of the men I know either.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005298#Comment_121005298

Where did I say anything about that.

All I'm saying is that it's false to suggest that privilege doesn't come with being white in Ireland.

It certainly does.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005288#Comment_121005288

Hilarious isn't it?

Why can't we all just accept we're privileged because you are?

The absolute hubris of what you're putting forward here is mind boggling.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005309#Comment_121005309

Surely when almost everyone has the same skin colour the ability for that characteristic to give an advantage is diluted relative to a situation where greater diversity exists.

You mentioned that you're over 50, in say the 1980's in Ireland what advantage did you experience because of your skin colour?

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005309#Comment_121005309

You're happy to take advantage of this supposed privilege, without guilt.

So you're happy, therefore, with teaching white Irish children that they also have this inherent advantage.

To what end? Awareness of something they can't do anything about, or is the point that they should be taught to do something about it, ergo, lose the advantage?

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005309#Comment_121005309

So when did white privilege begin in Ireland? or was it always there?

what exactly do you mean?

Its interesting how these ideas play out, outside of USA/canada, Australia/nz and western europe. e.g. what do Han Chinese think of other people in China?

How do black South Africans treat Nigerian immigrants?

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005310#Comment_121005310

must be the privilege i was born with, huh?

or more seriously - i'll restate this. the people who usually most loudly object to the idea that they benefit from privilege are usually those who benefit from it most.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005341#Comment_121005341

Usually?

Have you ever considered the possibility that your experience isn't the best resource for making judgements of this type?

Maybe that's your privilege showing, you believe your opinion carries greater weight than those of us who didn't have the privilege you enjoyed.

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005341#Comment_121005341

That's a very silly argument though.

It gives you two choices. Agree that white male Irish privilege exists, or argue that it doesn't exist, which proves that it exists.

It's like Monty Python - "Only the true Messiah denies his divinity." "Well what sort of chance does that give me?"

Nope, not having that. Not when you can show that, for example, white male Irish privilege not existing in the North in the 70s, or when Ireland was one of the poorest countries in Europe up to the 80s, or when the Penal Laws were in place for a couple of centuries. Heck, you can add in today when many, many people can't afford to leave home because of absurdly high property prices. Bet they're loving their privilege.

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005177#Comment_121005177

You must have been laughing your arse off typing that! You spend most your time on boards defending people like Farage, Boris and Trump. They are the absolute definition of culture wars and division. Never mind the coals you raked yourself over to defend Brexit after all the pointless damage it's caused.

I'm sure you'll tell me how they are all great unifiers in your next post though.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005341#Comment_121005341

Serious question.

Why do they not call these educational programmes "black disadvantage"?

I'd imagine that they know fully well that bringing innocent black children into such discussions would, inevitably, inspire feelings of inferiority due to racial identity. Negative implications, awkwardness, incrimination, amongst others.

Likewise, to say that sitting innocent white Irish children down to discussions on their racial identity and its negative implications can only inspire feelings of guilt and self retribution. Awkwardness, incrimination, amongst other negatives.

That is to say, the whole thing is a load of racially targeted trollocks that has a very, very specific outcome in mind, and is worded very, very specifically to achieve that outcome.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121004883#Comment_121004883

Exactly. No secondary school student I ever knew paid much heed to SPHE . It is a chat room and most students just enjoy it as break from the heavier subjects .

If this opens up to questions and discussion about White Male Privilege which does exist in other parts of the world it is a good thing .

I think as I sort of said earlier the Irish have never had the sort of privilege that has corrupted other countries and Irishwomen certainly not, but as we all are aware from other discussions there are a lot of changes to our country in recent years which means we will not be so much a homogenous grouping going forward .

I would think teaching future generations about the history of said privilege , more than imparting any guilt for it or imposing any blame , would or should be the aim of this curriculum.

o1s1n

Is anyone else sick to death of reading the word 'privilege' at this stage?

Must be one of the most over used and abused words of the last 5 years.

StupidLikeAFox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005431#Comment_121005431

So you are arguing that "beauty privilege" , "birth location privilege" and "class privilege" is real but "skin colour privilege" is not real?

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005341#Comment_121005341

If you were born into a basically mono-cultural Irish state, how are you born with “white privilege”?

The most privileged in society will talk about “white privilege” as a kind of woke-capitalist smokescreen. They make themselves seem caring and contemporary, while carrying on being on top of the class system. Those who will suffer from this posturing are less well-off or less educated people who happen to look “white”.

growleaves

It's no wonder to my mind that people with class advantages via education (which they carry with them into the labour market and business world) glom onto a junk ideology that says that all 'white' Irish people are privileged regardless of income, background, access to education, capital and patronage networks etc.

Are we expected to react with surprise when a pro-social justice poster tells us they went to a private school?

They cement their own privilege by creating the chaos of race-and-gender wars for everyone else to have to navigate through.

StupidLikeAFox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005223#Comment_121005223

Sure

1. I took part in a graduate recruitment assessment when I worked for a large multinational. There were several thousand applicants, 60 made it past screening to the assessment, there were 7 jobs. Graduates are more or less the same coming out of college - they know **** all, so when it came down to final decisions the conversations were around the sport they played, where they went to school, the camaraderie they had during interview but if you were good enough to get there you had an inherent advantage by being white and Irish. The company itself was multicultural, it wasn't racist by any means, but if you had the qualifications it was certainly easier to get in if you were white and/or irish

2. During college I worked in a pub and non-white and Eastern European guys were simply not let in. The owner did not want them "getting their foot in the door and taking over the pub". This was highly illegal, but commonplace in the town I was in.

Could go on but the point is that being white and Irish is a privilege in certain circumstances. It isn't a gravy train, it doesn't mean you are set for life, it doesn't grant you special powers but it is there

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005288#Comment_121005288

If "white privilege" in Ireland is real, it must have started sometime. When?

the Penal Laws? When Ray Keogh played for Shamrock Rovers? Last year? Or is it this just because people see something in America, and they apply it locally?

I think the sort of people in Ireland who talk about "white privilege" do some from a "woke capitalist" perspective, to distract from the financial/class advantages they have. And basically **** on the less well-off or less educated who look "white".

thegame983

We're a small island off the coast of Europe. What skin color do these clowns expect us to have?

NSAman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005273#Comment_121005273

To coin one of your cohorts phrases .. the vast majority judge travellers by their “lived experience”

unfortunately, travellers are white and Irish so by that definition they also have “privilege”.

there are FAR too many, with vested interests, trying to place wedges in western societies through race/colour/gender differences. It is causing much of the division, instead of inclusivity that they so wish was a utopian dream.

perhaps, you forget not that long ago, Ireland was a third world country, not by my definition. Yes it has come a long way, but the stupidity of trying to divide people based on some ridiculous “privilege” notion is going down the wrong path.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005537#Comment_121005537

So this company wanted to hire people who were likely the most affluent applicants? They tend to do that and your being white and Irish wasn't really the driving factor behind that.

Some clown running a pub in a regional town is a bit racist? As mentioned earlier, there's always going to be the occasional moron but it is hardly indicative of the majority of peoples opinions.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005758#Comment_121005758

Jump straight to the most extreme thing you can think of, that's the road to a balanced discussion.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005770#Comment_121005770

I didn't jumo, maybe you missed it but the whole thread is based around extreme hysteria over modern teaching. To avoid modern teaching you'd have to avoid sending kids to get a proper education.

Those free books are part of the indoctrination process!!!!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121004984#Comment_121004984

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005791#Comment_121005791

First off, I corrected the typo, but good on you for taking the high road in your response.

And your central point is entirely disingenuous and intended as nothing but a means of ridiculing people who take issue with the notion that white privilege is an issue in Ireland.

So what's your experience? Have you gotten ahead in life because of your being a white irish person?

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005798#Comment_121005798

"White privilege" is a steaming load of shíte. But so is SPHE, so its a good match, at least its not a new subject plugged in to the schedule to waste time. I mean no one in school gave a flying fùck when that came around on the timetable. SPHE was a joke long before they added even more rubbish to it. You'd just be doing homework from other subjects during it, it was never taken seriously.

The idea/panic that it is going to divide/harm/indoctrinate kids is utter hysterical conspiracy. Its turning a tiny molehill into Mt. Everest.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005829#Comment_121005829

Were it some form of far right indoctrination being attempted people would rightly demand it be stopped in its tracks.

This isn't about the level of respect students have for patently ridiculous course work, it's about resisting the normalisation of divisive hate fuelled rhetoric.

No mountain is being made out of any molehill, it's just people being alert to stupid crap like a societal immune system kicking into gear.

FishOnABike

...

silverharp

I dont have the white guilt, looking at Irish history, we had potatoes in the ground, we picked them ourselves.....