What are the major priorities of next 10-20 years?

Modulok

I used to follow this forum back when the inter-urbans were under construction.

I gather the big schemes currently in preparation and most likely to start are:

M20

N24

M28

...but of these three, when is construction actually likely to start?

And, what's the current status of the Dublin Outer Orbital Route and the Cork North Ring Road, Galway Bypass and M2 to the border? Are these likely to happen at some point or have they been kicked to the kerb?

KrisW1001

M20 - still no design, so no planning. Probably 3-5 years out.

N24 Cahir-Limerick Jn, waiting for a design; N24 Waterford-Cahir, waiting for a final corridor.

M28 - preparatory works in progress, next step is tendering.

The Dublin Outer Ring Road never really existed, and still doesn't.

N40 Cork North Ring is slowly progressing through design, but it is an active project.

N6 Galway Ring Road (it is not a "bypass", as there's almost no through-traffic on N6 in Galway) was thrown out by An Bord Pleanála for breaching Ireland's commitments to carbon reduction because ABP felt it promoted car-dependent transport (I agree; others don't - the thread on the scheme here rarely stays open more than a week because it tends to descend into personal abuse over climate change). TII claims it is still funded, and Galway CC still reckon they can get it approved; I very much doubt it.

N2 to border is proceeding, but it will not be a motorway. I don't think it was ever going to be a motorway - traffic is very low on this route. It is progressing as a 2+2 road (Type 2 Dual Carriagway) through Co. Monaghan, and a 2+2 bypass of Slane with a new bridge, with the remaining bits to be filled in later. Beyond the border, the dual-carriageway upgrade of A5 that carries N2 to Derry has been effectively stopped by a NIMBY campaign, and its price has escalated from £600 M to an obscene £1.1 B (the Irish government has given €150 M to Northern Ireland for A5). A5 is actually fully funded, and doesn't need there to be a NI government to proceed, but a government there would be handy to slap down the protesters.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058309938/what-are-the-major-priorities-of-next-10-20-years

I think it's safe to assume the Dublin Outer Orbital Route will never happen.

AFAIK some of this land has been reserved, in Meath, not sure about other counties? At best, the route may serve as a new rail route, mostly freight to free up capacity in Dublin or support a new location for Dublin Port, if that ever happens.

M2/A5 to Donegal and Doire is likely, IMHO. It will sell well politically. Quicker and easier to achieve than the new rail route proposed in AIRR.

Str8outtaWuhan

Carrick on Shannon bypass, town is a disaster in summer season.

AugustusMinimus

What is the rough plan for DOOR?

2 lane motorway from Naas to Balbriggan?

Cash would be better spent on public transport in the capital I feel.

cantalach

In order of how they affect my own life:

• M28
• M20 Blarney-Patrickswell
• N22 Ovens-Coolcower

And as luck would have it, that’s the order in which they’re most likely to happen.

L1011

Sligo could really do with all the various n4 schemes done. As a lot of them will be reusing existing alignments there won't be anywhere near as much CPO cost and hassle, existing road surfacing and pavement will be recycled/reused as much as possible and they could be delivered fairly cheaply and will able to claim lower environmental impact.

Carrick on Shannon and the remaining villages on route will need offline bypasses but Ryan claims he is willing to support those

AugustusMinimus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120999444#Comment_120999444

Sounds like they’ll build it like a continuation of the M9 northwards with a big junction upgrade so.

Suspect it will be a long time before we see this built. Potentially the last new motorway that will be build in this state in most of our lifetimes.

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120999535#Comment_120999535

The section of N4 that bypasses Carrick-on-Shannon has been signed off for funding.

Wanderer78

....the starting of the creation of a modern rail network....

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120999566#Comment_120999566

This will never ever happen. Never.

The era of major road projects like this is gone.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120999055#Comment_120999055

Have they been silenced?

Would love to see it built but in current environment I cannot see A5 getting permission. Too many potential minefields. Climate change and carbon emissions will be the next court case no doubt, building the a5 will hamper NIs commitment to co2 targets or somesuch, or that the rail line should be prioritised instead (it shouldn't but expect NIMBYs to use it as an argument)

KrisW1001

A5 has permission and funding. It was being blocked from going to tender by the "campaign" group, but if their actions have been taken away, the project will automatically proceed to tendering. There's not even any need for a government decision, which is handy given that NI still hasn't got one.

AugustusMinimus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120999874#Comment_120999874

whats that blue line come up off the M50 in Sourh Dublin?

KrisW1001

Ah, yes... that would be the other mad notion from the early 2000s... the Dublin Orbital Motorway. Basically "completing" M50 by putting a motorway through (sorry, under!) the most expensive neighbourhoods in Dublin.

Fred Cryton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120999006#Comment_120999006

Ironically the Dublin Outer Orbital is the one road scheme that would actually have the biggest impact economically on the State in terms of opening up vast tracts of new land for housing and other development. Just what is needed for a fast growing economy and population. Something closer to Dublin than the graph above would be better - coming across from the M1 just north of dunboyne, down east of Maynooth and then joining M7 at Naas.

Of course this being Ireland the most sensible suggestion is not even considered.

KrisW1001

There will be no more car-dependent exurbs. Densification and use of urban brownfield sites is how we will tackle housing.

For national connectivity, there is a case to be made for a new road north-south along Kilcullen - Enfield-Trim-Navan, but it only needs to be a single carriageway, something like N33 between N2 and M1.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001625#Comment_121001625

The Eastern Bypass - note it goes in to a tunnel to meet the Port Tunnel. It isn't going to happen, its off plans and land reservations have been released.

marno21

The priorities for the next 10 years per TII allocations seems to be:

* Bypasses of Slane, Virginia, Carrick on Shannon, Newcastlewest, Abbeyfeale, Tipperary Town and Ardee

* The Donegal TEN-T improvements package (bypasses of Ballybofey/Stranorlar, relief road for Letterkenny, Letterkenny-Lifford upgrade and upgrades of the N13 around Letterkenny including a new approach from the south and an upgrade of the dual carriageway to Manorcunningham)

* The M20 from Cork to Limerick

* Port access motorways (Cork-Ringaskiddy, Limerick-Foynes and Oilgate-Rosslare)

* The N5 from Ballaghaderreen to Scramoge

* The M6 Galway City Ring Road

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121002354#Comment_121002354

The only big project is the Cork - Limerick dual carriageway.

The rest are small projects.

I'm not sure about Galway ring road.

The Cork north ring road seems obvious too.

I think the rest is mostly bypasses.

A big bypass of Killarney has been talked about for years but I'm not sure how much progress has been made.

Modulok

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001829#Comment_121001829

Yes if it isn’t built one wonders what is the ultimate fate of the M50…it seems overcapacity as is, and that’s after the upgrade.

Pete_Cavan

The DOOR idea is dead, never going to happen.

A public/active transport bridge west of the M50 along with some targeted road upgrades would free up a lot of capacity on the M50.

markodaly

N25 - Cork to Waterford upgrade would be nice.

Finish off the Macroom - Ovens N22

Cork NRR would also be nice

KrisW1001

On N25, these are in various stages of life:

• Active: Rosslare approaches (N11/N25 Oilgate-Rosslare), scheme: N11 / N25 Oilgate To Rosslare Harbour Scheme (oilgate2rosslareharbour.ie)
• Active: Waterford-Glenmore (basically from end of Waterford Bypass, to start of New Ross Bypass), scheme: N25 | Home (n25waterford2glenmore.ie)
• Stalled: Midleton-Carrigtwohill (excludes Midleton Lakeview roundabout). Cork County Council is in love with this scheme, as it opens lots of development land, but by enlarging this, they're delaying what’s really needed: to close the median (finally!) and make Oatencake junction safer.
• Uncertain: Castlemartyr/Killeagh - Was dead as Midleton-Youghal, but thanks to some steady lobbying by local TDs is now alive again (sort of) as proposed bypasses for Castlemartyr and Killeagh. Not even a study area has been seen so far, though.

Plus, this was shelved a long time ago, and seems to have been forgotten:

• Dungarvan Outer Bypass. Design and a preferred corridor was done in 2010. No sign of it being revived. Probably more benefit than Midleton-Carrigtwohill on safety grounds (it would remove a dangerous bend and narrow stretch of road east of Dungarvan), but it would be a project of the scale of N22 Macroom (~€300 million), so hard to see it getting approval.

The rest of N25 is pretty much fine.

Fuascailteoir

Why didn't they do the Virginia by pass when building the M3. What a mess that is on occasion

Jayuu

No mention of the M21 in any of these posts. This will surely progress over the next 10 years even if we only get the Adare bypass done initially.

Chris_5339762

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012911#Comment_121012911

Bits are getting done yes but its all backwards!

Oilgate - Rosslare is a TEN-T jobbie with the obvious port access.

Waterford - Glenmore is a road that is absolutely fine but for some reason has a really high accident rate. Fill in the gap.

Midleton - Carrigtwohill is still borderline required - it will provide little to no extra capacity and its a pretty safe road thesedays apart from a little bit of work to do at the main Midleton junction.

Midleton - Youghal - Absolutely required 20 years ago. I've never understood the fannying around on this section. Its still not known whether they are planning Castlemartyr and Killeagh bypasses only, or the whole stretch.

Dungarvan bypass - Need to get rid of the 60kmh sections and bypass the whole lot between west of Dungarvan and east of Lemybrien. Very expensive and yes, it has been forgotten.

Youghal bridge - This gets forgotten but is a serious single point of failure given that the next bridge north is Cappoquin.

There are bits extra, but given that we're nearly there from Dublin - Rosslare for motorway, and there are plans for 2+2 for a large chunk of the N24 I still feel that there is absolutely no reason why there are no plans for 2+2 for the entirely of Cork - Rosslare as a strategic route.

KrisW1001

Yes, a realignment at Kinsalebeg and a new Blackwater bridge should have been on my list too, but there is no plan that I can find for it.

The whole length of this route will never be dualled - there’s two long sections of high quality wide single carriageway, one between Wexford and New Ross, and the other between Dungarvan and Kinsalebeg, that are extremely quiet at all times of the day or night, and are unlikely to be upgraded.

(Oddly, the blasting of the Dungarvan end of Dungarvan-Kinsalebeg stretch quite was quite obviously done with a future widening in mind, but there’s no need for it)

marno21

WRT the N25, TII had Waterford-Glenmore fairly close to top of their list. It was sailing through the phases in 2018/19, they clearly see it as a priority for safety reasons to close that gap. Since 2020, it has completely stalled for some reason.

Carrigtwohill-Midleton is a useful upgrade for safety reasons, again shelved. Some minor works will progress in the meantime, TII have activated a new minor scheme to address some of the cheaper to solve safety deficiencies. Long term this needs proper replacement as what was planned, this is a 70s style dual carriageway where the existing road is one carriageway and it was dualled by laying a new carraigeway on the other side. It's poorly engineered, no alternative route, no grade separation, plenty of accesses and side roads. It's only 4/5km long, it's not exactly a megaproject. Similar 70s style dual carriageways have been addressed around the country to some extent (Limerick-Shannon, Naas-M50, Leixlip-M50 etc).

Midleton-Yougal is at early planning, at the behest of James O'Connor TD. By the time the next election comes around they may be close to finishing their current phase, which is to decide scope of the project (pissy relief roads, proper bypasses or a full blown Type 1 DC between Midleton and Youghal).

Dungarvan, Youghal bridge are all dead.

Chris_5339762

Waterford - Glenmore was being pushed for safety, and also for consistent route style (TII do not like Dual -> Single -> Dual within a short period).

Its not hard to guess who has stalled it... ER I wonder who??

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121015577#Comment_121015577

Yeah, TII (being experts in the development of new roads) clearly like to avoid short sections of single carriageway in between sections of dual carraigeway.

Since 2020, road funding policy has reversed and there will now be some new dual carriageway gaps added to the network

• The N4 Carrick on Shannon to Dromod project seems to be being curtailed to a Carrick bypass only leaving 12km of single carriageway between the Carrick bypass and the Dromod bypass
• The N21 Newcastlewest bypass will leave a 7km gap between the M21 and the new bypass
• The N21 Abbeyfeale bypass will leave a 15km gap between the bypass and the Newcastlewest bypass
• The M20 at Blackpool will be what we all know it will be
• 
  

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121016320#Comment_121016320

I don't have a major issue with the M20 at Blackpool not being developed. This section of road would ideally be detrunked (or whatever the correct term is), by a Northern Bypass. I have a bigger problem with the two-lane N20 at Leitrim street to be honest. I think you might perhaps be thinking the same thing anyway though.

dublincc2

M50 eastern bypass, will that ever come to fruition? Even if it is shouted down as an unrealistic fantasy project it would be a far better investment than the M2/3/8/9/17 vested interest-led overbuilt vanity projects that are perpetually under capacity.

The main hold-up on the eastern bypass question was whether to build a tunnel or a bridge across the bay, a tunnel clearly is the more realistic option IMO.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017805#Comment_121017805

Being perpetually over capacity is a far bigger sign of failure of a road project than being perpetually under capacity.

spacetweek

Silly posts removed. Salad Fingers - cop on.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017805#Comment_121017805

It has been removed from all plans, so no.