Breaking Up With An Old Favourite!

squonk

I was having a look at the Galway Bay Brewery website earlier to see if they had any new brews. Nothing much as it turned out beyond heir core range. A little later I ended up on another site fir an off licence distributor carrying a lot of the bigger Irish breweries. It kind of hit me then I’ve not much interest in the GBB offering these days anymore. I was a big fan of their buried at sea milk stout and they’d core range but now they’re distributing in 330ml cabs which are too small imho. You’re up to the fridge way too often. It also struck me that other brewers are doing more innovative stuff at the moment.

Im not criticising them or attacking them and they’re doing well which is great to see but have you ever found yourself in the same position where a brewery’s business chew took of changing out or turning over products ended up putting you off?

Hodors Appletart

here's a tip with 330mls

Pout two of them into a pint glass, then top up with the rest after a mouthful.

Pen Rua

I feel like this thread would be better suited to one of the more established ones on this subforum.

I have found GBB output to be pretty strong, and not overwhelming. As a comparison, there was a period last year it felt like Whiplash had 2-3 new beers each month. It was hard to keep up with and they all became samey. Whiplash have dialled it way back, and I think that is a good thing.

GBB in recent memory have had barley wines, BA stouts, non-BA stouts, sour IPA, hazy IPAs, cold IPA, pale ales and saisons. Pretty diverse and all of a good standard (to me).

I do miss the milk stout, and regret them changing their core stout to the dry Irish stout (Ostara). I also very much miss the old, old Of Foam & Fury which I recall having in college long before I got into beer properly.

They've recently changed Althea to a hazy session IPA where it used to be a pale ale. Waiting for cans of the new recipe to drop in Bradleys, but I'm assuming they're trying to sell the old stock first.

irish_goat

Galway Bay tend to be pretty reliable for me, although I don't buy their core range cans that often as I don't like the 330mls but I've enjoyed some of the specials lately. I find they don't tend to release a lot of duds.

I was quite happy when they brought out Ostara, it was the one style their pubs were really missing and whilst I liked Buried At Sea, I wasn't always in the mood for a sweet stout. Also disappointed that Althea has gone hazy but it's still got a bit of bitterness to it, so still a good pint.

ClashCityRocker

Beavertown for me. Seems to me their focus these days is churning out mediocre lagers and hazy beers compared to some of the more interesting beers they made their name with (Smog rocket, 8 ball etc). Gamma Ray doesnt seem to be the beer it was either though although that might just be fatigue from me drinking too much of it over the years 😋

BeerNut

Definitely you, and nothing to do with Heineken cutting every possible corner and seeking the lowest common denominator market for every Beavertown beer they make.

the beer revolu

Honestly, I'm falling out of love with modern craft beer, generally. There are just so many beers that hold zero interest for me.

As anyone who knows me knows, I really don't like hazy/juicy/NE/East Coast style IPA. It's becoming more and more difficult to find old school IPAs and it seems to me that even older beers are changing more towards this style with no balancing bitterness. I mostly stick to Kinnegar in cans as they are clearly labelled and described accurately.

I have zero interest in pastry beers and rarely do I enjoy barrel aged stuff.

It seems only a few short years ago, given a list of 20 beers, I would have happily chosen 10 of them. Now, I'm lucky to find one in such a list.

I love sour beers, generally, but so many contemporary sours are really, really sweet!

Thankfully my favourite bar sells 9 White Deer. They are old school with their IPA and PA.

Hodors Appletart

In late 2021 I turned away from "juicy" IPAs, they all taste the same to me, and without any kind of decent hop bitterness on the finish I find them difficult enough to get through.

Since the. I've been enjoying a journey into mostly German, but also other central and eastern european lagers, Helles, Pils, Bocks, Dortmunders, Munichers, Kolsch, Dunkels of all kinds - the list is extensive.

I've found that if you frequent the likes of McHughs, good Carryouts, and other well stocked off licences, you can find new German breweries a good amount of the time, or just stock up on what you know you like, Weihenstephaner, Hoffbrau, Riegele, Augistiner, Ayinger.

The odd time I'll buy an Irish, or UK or US beer labelled "IPA" and invariably be disappointedlty drinking something that I wish had also stated Hazy, or NE. Even the ones labelled WCIPA are generally toned down these days too.

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058309085/breaking-up-with-an-old-favourite

Lost interest myself after the main brewer left

Beanstalk

I loved ordering onlne juring the lockdowns and there was great deals to be had from all the retailers and breweries like GBB were making some really interesting stuff in 440 cans. Now? Meh. Prices have risen too much to make it worthwhile.

Now my lot is to nip out to the nearby Kinnegar Brewery and just pick up some fresh big bunnys and scraggy bays and yannaroddys and thats it really. I also like their tap room only cans.

If I spot a shlenkerla or something interesting I'll always get it.

crusd

Any of the Irish breweries doing a good Red Ale. It is our native beer style after all in spite of what the Guinness marketing department tell us. GBB Bay Ale is inferior to Smithwick's imho.

Beanstalk

O Hara's do a nice nitro red ale.

BeerNut

It's no more our native beer style than stout is: they're both of English derivation and evolved differently in 20th century Ireland.

Recently I've liked Reel Deel's Mayo Red, and West Kerry's Rua is decent.

Dungarvan Copper Coast, Brehon Kilanny Red/Raglan Road, Heaney Red, Pikeman Red and Wicklow Wolf Wildfire are all rock solid and in regular production, as far as I know.

Insect Overlord

Whitegate (formerly White Gypsy) do a good ruby red ale, but it's rare enough on tap.

Hodors Appletart

"native beer style" what on earth does that mean?

Pen Rua

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120990012#Comment_120990012

Where did the main brewer depart to? Or did he / she leave brewing completely?

Concur with a separate comment above re dialing it back on hazy / juicy. I have become far, far more selective with the cans I pick up. One, because they are becoming samey-samey to me and 2) the cost is going up incrementally.

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120990715#Comment_120990715

@BeerNut Might remember exactly. But AFAIK it was to a brewery in the nordics,Sweden maybe.

TheAnalyst_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120990656#Comment_120990656

The style of beer that was historically brewed and drank here. Not that hard to understand?

BeerNut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120990732#Comment_120990732

The first head brewer, John, didn't brew for anyone else after he left, as far as I know. Head brewer 2, Chris, went to Switzerland originally and I think is in Berlin now, unless he moved on again. Head brewer 3, Tom, is doing his own stuff now. I don't know if there's a fourth head brewer at Galway Bay yet.

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120990856#Comment_120990856

Thanks Beer, Figured you would have the low down.

@Pen Rua I was referring to Chris. Once he left things went down hill for me.

Hodors Appletart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120990827#Comment_120990827

right, but there's no such thing as that, certainly not Red Ale. (or stout for that matter)

squonk

Agree in general. I’m not really an IPA person either. It seems like every other beer these dads is an IPA of some sort. I can’t tell a great difference between most of them at this stage. Most of them are excessively bitter I find now.

Western Herd do a nice red.

Macy0161

I love sour beers, generally, but so many contemporary sours are really, really sweet!

I actually thought that was my taste buds being off that sours aren't that sour. More like fruit beers.

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120991219#Comment_120991219

It seems the majority of people don't like sours

So they made sours sweet, kept calling them sours. Now everyone loves sours.

Genuis. :)

TheAnalyst_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120991096#Comment_120991096

There is such thing and it's ale. Do some research.

BeerNut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120991300#Comment_120991300

I don't envy anyone trying to "do some research" on beer history. There is a vast amount of unsubstantiated nonsense out there, including from highly respected beer writers who liked stories more than facts (thanks for that, Mr Jackson). Ron Pattinson and Martyn Cornell are your guys for actual facts, and the European Beer Consumer's Union has recently published a big guide to beer styles. Here's their entry on Irish Red.

The only beer style that might possibly be Irish in origin is heather ale. Here's Cornell on it.

TheAnalyst_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120991357#Comment_120991357

Not talking about beers that are Irish in orgin. We're discussing styles that were historically brewed here.

BeerNut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120991374#Comment_120991374

crusd's word was "native", which implies origination. Almost every style of beer has been historically brewed here, unless you have an arbitrary cut-off date for when "historically" ended.

Hodors Appletart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120991374#Comment_120991374

yeah, he said "native" not "historically brewed", so do some research yourself.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120990656#Comment_120990656

The style of beer that was most common here. Because Ireland's climate is marginal for hops, roasted barley was used and they often had no hops. There are records of the style dating to the 14th century in Kilkenny, well before Smitwicks setup in the early 18th century. English Bitter's would traditionally have used caramel malts and hops so have a very different taste profile. Irish stouts are a variation on London porters and arrived here only in the late 18th. The ubiquitousness of Stout as the "Irish" beer only came about as the multitude of local breweries closed all over the country around the end of 19th and early 20th century. Most of these would have had beer styles closer to the "Irish red" than the stouts. The large Dublin brewery became the dominant player and the rest is history.

the beer revolu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120991219#Comment_120991219

Things can be both sour and sweet.

BeerNut

The style of beer that was most common here.

We don't have enough evidence of what pre-19th century Irish breweries made to say what sort of beer was common and what wasn't. See Kelly here, and his conclusion that "we can safely say that the very modern version of Irish Red Ale has no identifiable linear connection with brewing in the distant past"

Because Ireland's climate is marginal for hops, roasted barley was used and they often had no hops.

This makes no sense from a brewing point of view or a historical point of view. Roasted barley couldn't have even existed before Daniel Wheeler invented the roasting machine in 1817, and even then it couldn't have been used to make roasted barley for brewing, as the use of all unmalted grains was banned by the Duty on Malt (Ireland) Act, 1813. It first became legal to use roasted barley via the Inland Revenue Act of 1880, commonly known as the Free Mash Tun Act. So there's no great history of using roasted barley. I know of no evidence that brewers in Ireland and Scotland used less hops in their beer than English ones. Hops were packed up and exported; they're not a product which requires a ready local supply. And anyone who has ever put together a beer recipe will tell you that substituting roasted barley for hops is not a thing: they perform completely different tasks in the beer.

There are records of the style dating to the 14th century in Kilkenny

Kelly goes through this in detail in the link above. In short it's a big leap to draw a line from the phrase "Derg-Laith" in a medieval poem to "red ale" as we understand it today. For one thing, a poem is not a "record" in the brewing history sense.

Smitwicks setup in the early 18th century

Smithwicks was set up in 1827 or 1828, not the 18th century. Kelly again.

English Bitter's would traditionally have used caramel malts and hops so have a very different taste profile.

Not sure when you're referring to as "traditionally", but by way of illustration, Pattinson does a comparison of Irish and English ale brewing in 1838 here. You can pick through the numbers if you're into that, but he says "The Irish 40/- bears an uncanny resemblance to the London 40/-. In terms of both gravity and hopping." That doesn't sound like it would have a very different taste profile. If you have an alternative comparison I'd love to see it.

Irish stouts are a variation on London porters and arrived here only in the late 18th.

I don't think we have any conclusive facts on the beginning of Irish porter brewing but I think it may be a wee bit earlier: I've seen references to the Fumbally brewery making porter in the 1740s.

The ubiquitousness of Stout as the "Irish" beer only came about as the multitude of local breweries closed all over the country around the end of 19th and early 20th century.

Hey! I agree with this! Stout here basically means Guinness, which drove pretty much everyone else either out of business or into brewing the same sort of product as them.

Most of these would have had beer styles closer to the "Irish red" than the stouts.

If you mean that they made milds and bitters pretty much the same as the rest of the UK did, yup.

How we got from English-style pale ale to something badged as "Irish red" is set out by Kelly here, with some other historical context by Cornell here. I like Kelly's theory that it was the arrival of Watney's Red Barrel to Ireland in 1964 that caused Guinness to develop Smithwick's Draught and thereby create a style which was first called "Irish red ale" in 1998 in Jackson's Pocket Beer Book (Cornell again). We can see that today in that Smithwick's and keg Bass are seen as interchangeable, even though one is the quintessential Irish red and the other is a quintessential English bitter.

I'm happy to be called on any of this, but you'll need to cite some sources. Good ones.

Beanstalk

Good sources? Well, my barman says...

BeerNut

He must have been paying attention on that trade trip to the brewery visitors' centre.

Macy0161

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994161#Comment_120994161

Well I'm not claiming to be a tasting expert, but I haven't been getting much sour from them compared to a few years ago, but it could well be just me!

Hodors Appletart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994315#Comment_120994315

someone call the police, there's been a murder up in here

the beer revolu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994424#Comment_120994424

Sourness can be somewhat masked by sweetness but a beer isn't necessarily sweet or sour, it can be both.

I think the problem with a lot of contemporary sours is not that they aren't sour but that they are often far too sweet!

the beer revolu

😉!

Ronan|Raven

The porterhouse and their rebrands..... and what they did to the wrasslers label and also lack of it a lot of the rare times I am in town in their pubs since Bray died...

Also... where TSB AT?!

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995530#Comment_120995530

Does Conor McGregor not run them now?

BeerNut

No. He bought the brewery, not the pubs and not the brand.

Ronan|Raven

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995688#Comment_120995688

They ruined the brand long before mcgregor came along.

Hodors Appletart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995688#Comment_120995688

weird, is the brewery he owns going to continue to produce the ph brand? will the pubs be selling any beer produced under the mcgregor brand?

it's way too tied up together for me anyway, I've made a decision not to buy the beer (ph OR mcgregor brand) or to go into the pubs pushing the brand made in the brewery he owns

irish_goat

Purely guessing but I can see the other pubs slowly moving away from the PH brand in the way Tapped has.

BeerNut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120999058#Comment_120999058

Yes, very weird. Essentially, Porterhouse beers are brewed under licence by McGregor's company. The Porterhouse generally does sell beers from associated brands (it has brewed for West Kerry and Brennan's, and sold their beer directly when it did) so it may well sell his, though it's under no obligation to do so. They may be discouraged from it by the way draught Forged stout is apparently just Porterhouse Plain. I'm told the cans of Forged come from Dundalk Bay so presumably they're a rebadge of the Brewmaster stout.

irish_goat

There was a clip of McGregor posted online the other day. He was swaggering into some event and mentioned the "Forged Army" a few times. If he's able to achieve the same sort of success he did with Proper Twelve I can't see how there will be room for Porterhouse beers at the brewery. Just looking at the Porterhouse socials and they haven't had anything posted since St.Patrick's Day either. I'd imagine the brand is gonna be wound up.

irish_goat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120999810#Comment_120999810

Confirmed on Twitter, nitro cans coming from the PH brewery. (Is it still called that?)

https://twitter.com/dougleddin/status/1702981451677892890

the beer revolu

Mikkeller passion pool.

When I first came across this a few years ago it seemed like the perfect expression of a passionfruit sour beer. I really loved it.

Now it's thin and has a bitter finish. It's not the same beer, at all. Hate when breweries do this.