Keep on trucking. Keep on learning. From novice to... who knows
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Everyone will have seen the HR drop over the last few weeks as the temperatures have cooled. That doesn't mean there is an increase in leg strength to adjust the goal and workouts at this stage of the process. Trust the process.
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Ah ok. Yep indeed, it's an absolute mind melt 😊. So hard to judge.
If your numbers are telling you you're good for 3:40 maybe do head out at 3:45 with a view to building for a neg split. It's an approach that suits the DCM course and could result in a terrific marathon.
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Week 15 of Hanson Advanced: 2nd October - 8th October
Another tricky week ahead with the final Gaelforce 10k in Howth Saturday followed by the final long run (27k) on Sunday. Plan on holding back Saturday and taking it easy, but will be tricky with the hills.
Monday - 13k @ 5:49min/km
Supposedly easy running, but pace was a little quicker than it should have been. Felt good.
Tuesday - 3.5km w/u; 3x2mile @5:05min/km with 800 rec; 3.5km c/d
Started watch as normal run so after 3k had to do some fidgery as I went to readjust the program and start the workout portion to help me keep pace.
Went along the Sallins greenway which is very flat mostly because it was a lovely late afternoon. Actually, that was one of the most pleasant days for being outside in a long long time. Coolness in the air, but nice and sunny.
After listening to advice in the log, and feeling where I am and the plan I have, I decided to stick it out with the faster paces. I’m glad I did as I feel really good.
Wednesday - rest
Well, starting to think beyond October and what next. I have Run the Line coming up (26k course) that I missed last year due to injury. Bought a copy of Relentless Forward Progress as something in the back of my mind is telling me to stick a toe into an ultra in the new year and see what it’s all about.
Thursday - 3.5km w/u; 12.5k tempo@5.08min/km; 3.5km c/d
Right, first off, I struggle with holding back on my pace and always tend to go 3-5 seconds faster than I should. I’m not overly worried though as I can hold the pace for the planned duration.
Quite breezy today but missed the rain either side. This week up’ed the distance of tempo from 13km to 16km so was eager to see how it would go. Warm up was not feeling it though, but once I got going on the tempo, felt much better. Powered through, and felt really strong and at the same time a little worn. Felt I could have continued on for another while which is always a good sign.
Friday - 13k @6:05 min/km
Easy running
Saturday - Gaelforce 10k Howth Hill - 55mins with 259m elevation gain
Final run in the trilogy and wondering why I signed up for this event. Knowing I have myh final long run tomorrow, I don’t want to jeopardise that, so not racing this, but deciding to run strong.
As parking in Howth can be difficult, I get there at 8:40 even though my wave doesn’t start till 11:15. I decided to head out early, maybe go for a walkaround and just enjoy some quiet time. As it worked out, there was loads of parking, and still spots when I left about 10:15 to head up to the race which was starting at Deer Park golf club.
After a pre-race briefing that warned us of the usual changing conditions, including a lot of muddy parts, we set off on time. The first 3k was steep climbing in a mix of open fields, and rocky trails. After a couple of kms of respite on mostly flat to downhill, we were climbing again up to the Ben of Howth where we turned around and headed back down long steep declines on a various mix of dirt and rocky trail as well as fields.
Through the run, I kept telling myself to not overdo it as I had the long turn the following day, and I generally restrained myself. Most steep inclines were walked, on the flats, I generally took it handy, but on the downhills I had some fun running at a fair clip. I nearly missed a couple of turns, but
I really enjoyed the run and I know that this was off-plan, but I had great craic, and sure, that’s what it’s all about. I actually felt better for the rest of the day than I had done in the previous couple of days - legs much looser, and bundles of energy.
The only negative I could give these events is that they are only 10km, but it really gets me in looking forward to Run the Line in November. These Gaelforce runs are really fun.
Only problem on the day was I went to see my daughter play her GAA match and either in Howth or at the side of the pitch, I got eaten alive by midges.
Sunday 27k @5:33min/km
Last long run, and almost certainly the hardest. For a change, I decided to park at my mothers house in Tallaght and run into town and around the Spire - about 12km each way. I used my hydration vest with 1.5 liters of water and 2 High-5 zero tabs mixed in.
I knew it was downhill almost the entire way, so pace was pretty quick but pretty easy. Good thing about running Sunday morning is lack of traffic, but there were still plenty of people around, so I needed to do a lot of weaving and dodging around in the city center.
The second half from the Spire was all uphill with the only respite seeming to come around the Drimnagh road before turning for Walkinstown road. I knew once I got into Tallaght, there were some really hills and I was feeling bushed. The heat of the morning and the warmth of the zero tab water made it quite unpleasant but I kept taking what I could. The last 4k in particular was really tough with just uphill after uphill. All in, a great workout, and something completely different which was really enjoyable.
Total for the week: 106.7 km 10h 1m 728 m
Total for year: 2616km
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Addendum to last weeks update:
As I mentioned, on Saturday I got eaten alive by midges as the pitch is down by a canal. I reckon I got about 30 bites in total. Today, on my easy run, my legs were definitely swollen and felt like concrete. Loosened up a little towards the end, but who would have thought we would have had to deal with that in October.
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Week 16 of Hanson Advanced: 9th October - 15th October
Monday - 10k 6:03@min/km
Back to some easy running after the weekend. Some aches from the climbing but felt okay.
Tuesday - 3.5km w/u; 4x1.5mile @5:04min/km with 800 rec; 3.5km c/d
Schoolboy error day. For the strength sessions I edit a program on my Garmin and update interval distances. Forgot that last week I changed the warmup to 500m as I had run 3k before realising I forgot to set the program so reset and adjusted the remaining warmup on the fly.
So, headed out thinking I was doing just over 16k, and realised 500m in that I forgot to change the warmup distance to 3.5k after last week, so stopped, changed it and started again, seeing that I was due to do just under 20k. Only thing - I didn’t bring water, gels, or bodyglide, which I typically use on all runs >17k. I ploughed on and headed down to the relatively flat greenway, and had wind at my back for first couple of intervals. That meant pace was faster but felt fine. The second two intervals were back against the wind, but it wasn’t too bad, so slowed down a little, and just worked at it. The lack of water was a pain but not troubling, gels, I could live without as I don’t normally need feel the lack of energy till I go about 17k, and by then it was just very easy miles left. The lack of bodyglide was apparent when I got home - on my arms. Still, not too bad.
So, overall, a hard session, but expected after the weekend. Looking forward to a day off.
Wednesday - rest
Worked on stretching as knees have been giving me trouble for a couple of weeks now. I think it’s down to the way I sit at the desk in work. I can them when running at times, and throughout the day.
Thursday - 3.5km w/u; 16k tempo@5.09 3.5km c/d
Again, went for flat course today and felt good throughout. Took just one gel about 7km in.
Knees still a little sore.
Friday - 12k @5:56 min/km
Easy running.
Saturday 16k@5:53 min/km
First proper cold run since earlier in the year. Hat, buff, gloves the whole way. Nice though in the sun.
Sunday 16k @5:54min/km
Another easy run. Today was colder than yesterday.
Other news: I entered the lottery for the Art O’Neill Ultra (60k) in January. Will know next week if successful. If not, I’ll do the 25k pursuit. I already signed up for the long course (26k) of Run The Line in November which I'm really looking forward to.
Also have been thinking for a few weeks now about the Connemarathon Ultra in late April. Will decide in a few weeks.
Total for the week: 95.6 km 9h 7m
Total for year: 2712km
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- You should consider dropping down to do the short course for RTL. The long course is not something to go in half cooked after doing DCM when your body is still in recovery. It is a fantastic event. The short course will give you a good taste of what is to come in the long course.
- AON Challenge needs a lot of prep and sufficient expertise in navigation/fuelling. Realistically you are looking at about 10 hours out there due to the terrain. This is not an event to take lightly.
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Thanks for the feedback. I ran the three Gaelforce 10k events this year and while RTL is 26k and the weather will be more challenging, it's not something I plan on racing. The idea is to use it for some experience and take it handy enough. I actually entered last year but missed it as came back too early from the marathon and got injured refereeing a soccer match the weekend after Dublin.
For the AON Challenge - yeah, I have another few days to think about it and I've entered the pursuit anyway as the organisers said on Facebook they would send vouchers to those who are lucky in the challenge lottery but have also entered the pursuit so at least I have a spot. Again, this is something I plan on taking incredibly easy (I was anticipating 12 hours), and I've looked into it a lot. The only concern I have at this stage is the navigation once it gets past CP1. Although I entered the Ultra option, I'm thinking that once I get to CP1, I have the option of joining the Hybrid group.
Lots to mull over...
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On the Garmin workout WU and CD, a tip I got a couple of years back was to set them to 'Lap button press'.
Far better I feel than setting a distance into it. You've a lot more control over their duration.
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Week 17 of Hanson Advanced: 16th October - 22nd October
Taper starts Thursday. Getting real…
For the last week I’ve been getting to bed much earlier than normal, so hopefully that will benefit me. Flip side is I am waking up at 5 in the morning.
Monday - 13k 5:49@min/km
Easy running.
Tuesday - 3.5km w/u; 6x1mile @5:03min/km with 400 rec; 3.5km c/d
Woke up this morning feeling very fresh.
Nice enough day for a run. Overcast, but mild for the time of year. Decided to go for a more undulating course rather than the flat greenway I’ve spent a lot of time on recently. Again, struggling with keeping the pace down, mostly because I’m going by feel. Plenty in the tank throughout. Nice way to finish the final strength session of the plan.
Wednesday - rest
Some DOMs this morning, but rest day, so all good.
Thursday - 3.5km w/u; 16k tempo@5.10; 3.5km c/d
Felt in great nick before heading out at lunch. Not sure though but found the run quite difficult. I’m not sure if it was more psychological from the start knowing this was my last “session” of the block. As usual I started too fast and carried that through, but I’m not too bothered about it as I got the run in, felt I could have done a little more, it was a good workout and it’s now taper time.
So, this is my 3rd training block in my short running career and definitely the best. Hanson is incredibly relentless and it pushes you every day. I’m used to the tired legs over the last few months but I’m ecstatic about the progress I’ve made. Regardless of how Dublin goes, I know I am a much stronger runner now, and for me, that’s what matters.
Friday - 11k @6:10 min/km
Legs feeling it from yesterday which is unusual, but I think it’s down to me not feeling great yesterday afternoon/evening. Recovery a little slower than normal. Incredibly wet with plenty of flooding out there. Actually got dizzy a couple of times - that’s new. Also had a high heart rate that climbed throughout even though similar runs were much lower. Could be due to the coffee I had a couple of hours before going out. Will skip the caffeine for the next week.
Also some pains in left thigh, but I’m putting that down to just wear and tear and expecting to recover overnight.
Saturday 13k@6:07 min/km
Easy running. Stunning morning for a run.
Still a little tight in places but its working its way out. Also, HR much more normal now so looks like i’ll avoid coffee before running.
Sunday 13k @6:09min/km
Easy running. Another nice morning. Quite cold so hat, buff, gloves the whole way.
I was also thinking that I prefer the Adrenaline GTS than the Ghost 15s to run in. I’m not going to change anything though at this stage and will use the Ghost next week.
So, this is it - about to go into the final week of Hanson.
To be honest, I am quite hesitant about this final week as I will be running 43km before Sunday with only Wednesday off. While everyone else is pulling back significantly on mileage, I am still doing a lot. Well, now is not the time to be questioning things, but I should have a good understanding of how I am feeling by Thursday, so if needed, I’ll reduce the mileage.
Total for the week: 92.4 km 8h 52m
Total for year: 2804km
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The very best of luck J, you've really nailed this block, you're gonna smash it on Sunday.
No harm either to slightly scale back the rest of this week's runs.
Also, given you're following the plan in metric, watch out for the mistake on Saturday's run in the book.
It's 3m but has 8k in brackets underneath instead of 5k.
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Thanks a mil C. I'm feeling okay so far this week, but am really considering pulling back maybe Thursday or Friday, or both. I am really interested in just seeing how I get on after Hanson as I absolutely loved it with many times feeling I could give more, and others felt like a real struggle. Thanks for the call out on the mistake on Saturday. I noticed that alright when I was asking myself why I would do an 8k run the day before.
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Week 18 of Hanson Advanced: 23rd Oct - 29th Oct - Part 1
Monday - 10k @6:17 min/km
Super easy day. Just keeping the legs moving more than anything else. Still some minor pain in various places (left knee, outside left quad) but pretty sure they will clear up with some stretching and resting during the week.
Tuesday - 8k @6:12 min/km
Again, another easy day. Left quad better. Still knee issues which I think is as much caused by home desk setup but stretching definitely helps.
Both calfs also quite tight so plenty of stretching in evening. Foam rolling and massage gun. Quite tender after but tomorrow being a rest day, I’m sure they’ll be grand.
Wednesday - rest
Feeling good. Calfs maybe still a little tight. Apart from standing on the sideline watching my young lad play some schools rugby, I done nowt. Bed early.
Dublin Marathon plan finalised. Eeek.
A goal: 3:42
B goal: 3:45 (main)
C goal: Enjoy the day
Going out at 3h50min pace for the first 7 miles. As soon as I get to Milo’s, I’ll aim to bring pace down from 5:27 min/k to 5:16 and hold it there. That would bring me home in 3h45min.
I’ll see how I am feeling when I am approaching Orwell and whether to give the A goal a shot.
I reckon this is very doable because since week 11, all my training paces have been at the 3h40min target. It is also double a recent half (in the middle of the training block) + 16mins.
Laminated a small pace-card with all mile targets on one side and km targets on the other. Gel every 30-35 mins, alternating with Fastchews.
In the meantime, a few more runs to do this week - 10k today & tomorrow; 5k Saturday.
All done at 6:05-6:20m/km pace. PMP: 5:20
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Very best of luck on Sunday 😊
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Fair play, you put together a strong block and looks like a sensible race plan too! - Best of luck!
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Best of luck on Sunday, have a great run!
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DCM 23 Race Report
Ultimately, the day did not work out for me, but this is a journey, so I’m confident I will be back faster and stronger in the future. After all, I just completed a marathon, something that so few people do.
A goal: 3:42: Nope
B goal: 3:45 (main): Nope
C goal: Enjoy the day: Not really
Finish time: 3:56.
Training Plan: Hanson Advanced
Quick and short of it is that I loved working the plan. It had a mix of everything and really helped me become a stronger and faster runner. I got a HM PB in the middle of training. However, I have questions over the short taper, as well as the long run being limited to 27km, in particular for someone like me who has been running for less than 2 years. Maybe I was unlucky though…
Week leading up to race
Taper started 10 days out, and I followed the taper as laid out. Plenty of easy running and still high mileage compared to other plans. I found a couple of the later SOS days as more challenging than the weeks prior.
The Wednesday of race week I tried foam rolling and massage gun of my calves as neither were feeling great. I was also suffering from pain on the outside of both knees for a few weeks, mostly in the morning time. I still continued with the easy running but I never felt spritely or like I had a bounce in my step during the week. Overall, quite flat.
Day before (Saturday)
Was quite busy for me between Expo, daughters football match, visiting family and then a very easy 5k in the evening. Pasta and Gyoza for dinner. Ate very well during the day.
I thought expo was pretty quite compared to last year, which was welcome as I could get in and out much quicker. Bought 3 pairs of Hidden Comfort socks, and some extra Hi5 Aqua gels.I find these gels really easy to take and don’t need water with them.
I settled on wearing a vest and in the end was incredibly happy I did.
Race Morning
Usual porridge with a spoon of whey protein and a teaspoon of honey. 500ml of water with Hi5 tab. Got a lift in with the next door neighbour. I had a bit of a headache since getting up, which was very unusual. Plan was to sip on water and see if it would go but I got a couple of nurofen just in case. I got to bag drop area at 8:15, an hour before my wave started. Got ready, dropped bag, and jogged around a little to stretch out. Took the nurofen as the headache wasn’t abating. Got into pen and positioned myself around the 3:45 mark. Took a gel and sipped on some water. I brought 7 gels (one every 30-35 mins), a small bag of Fastchews, 250ml of water, phone, and a pace-card.
I assessed how I was feeling and wasn’t feeling particularly well. My knees were still not 100% but mostly my legs felt heavy. I was questioning at the start how I would feel later on as I knew it would be more of an effort than it should be even from the start.
Plan was to go out at 5:27 min/km pace to Castleknock and then up pace to 5:16.
Race
After some really eerie silence in the couple of minutes before the start, the gun went off.
0-5k (19 secs ahead of plan)
Not too busy at the start with the third km down to the river being the quicker one, but held back on the slight climb to Stoneybatter and towards the park. Didn’t take any water at the first station.
5-10k (50 seconds ahead of plan)
Ok, first problem. I noticed half way up Chesterfield that the 3:50 pacers and group were right on top of me. They started 27 seconds behind me and it threw me. They then told the folks running with them that they were running an even pace for a 3:50 finish as we will be running more than 26.2 due to the wide corners etc. I still couldn;t figure that out as according to my watch, they were running a few mins ahead of an even pace. That caused me to up the pace very slightly as I didn’t want to get overtaken by such a large group that I would have to get by again.
As I was running through the park, I was still very conscious that my legs were heavy and I didn’t feel like I had a whole lot of energy. Knees were okay though.
Also, as I was running up Chesterfield, a chap ran beside me and we remembered each other from running beside each other having a chat at the Kildare Thouroughbred half earlier in the year. After a bit of a chat, I let him go as he was running even paces where I was more conservative for the start.
Also around here, I felt my calves were kind of burning even though there were no big climbs. I was confident when I got to more flatter area, they would subside, but they still shouldn’t have been like that. I had plenty of climbing in my training, although not as much as last year.
10k-15k (88 seconds ahead of plan)
I ran the downhills in this section pretty easy. What was quite noticeable in the park was the amount of people not using the racing line. They were following the people in front, staying on the left side of the road when it was clear there was a right turn 50m ahead. I was happy as I found plenty of open space. Although I was running ahead of plan, I thought I could get into a rhythm of 5:20 instead of 5:16 and give back some of the time on some of the hills that were to come. Castleknock support was again brilliant. After we headed back into the park, it was very quite.
15k-20k (109 seconds ahead of plan)
Looking back, I was still going too fast for what I planned. I don’t really know why, but it was likely getting caught up in the fantastic crowds and cheering that seemed to be so much more than last year. I enjoyed around Kilmainham as I don’t really remember it from last year.
20k-25k (94 seconds ahead of plan)
I knew Crumlin road was one of those places that would zap you of energy but you wouldn’t notice it till later, so I was very conservative here and gave back a bit of time. The weather was decent though with very calm conditions.
One thing I remember from my first marathon in 2008 was at the halfway point questioning how I would be able to get to the finish, and that still plays on my mind. This time though I thought, well, it’s only a half. I run those anytime. Still, my legs were never right and about here was the first time I got some pain in my right hamstring. Just a little pull on it but a worry with a long way to go.
25k-30k (71 seconds ahead of plan)
Running down Crowellsfort road I was looking at the watch thinking I was close to only 10 miles left which would be a boost, but also that I was approaching unchartered territory, not having run more than 27km in training. I kept reminding myself that folks who followed Hanson said they never hit the wall and felt strong throughout. I thought to myself that I was not feeling strong, but I had confidence that my legs could keep moving even when my mind said they couldn’t. However, both hamstrings were now giving warnings.
For about 30 mins I was running beside a lady with her name on her top and she got literally hundreds of shout outs, and poor old me got zero :-). I thought though that it would be quite annoying to have everyone shout your name constantly as the novelty would wear off and I would just want to focus on my run. Maybe I was just being grouchy, as the constant noise now was getting to me a little. I found it hard to stick to a rhythm.
30k-35k (91 seconds behind plan) - this is where the wheels fell off
I said before I don’t really like Orwell area. I think it is more around Terenure College that I don’t like. Maybe its because it gets quiet again, its well into the race, and its a long straight road. Still, I felt I was in overall better condition around here than I was this time last year, except my legs were finding it very tough.
Under the arches in Milltown was incredible. A wall of noise and it really narrowed but was spine tingling. Absolutely loved it.
As I approached the hill in Milltown that was when I knew I was really struggling. I decided to walk up the hill but got running again as I got to the top. From this point though, I knew my goal time was toast. My hamstrings were proper aching and I wondered if I would even finish. I decided against stopping and stretching as I didn’t think that would help.
I decided as well that I would try to encourage others who were struggling and decided to forget about times, just to finish as quickly as I was able. I got a few people running again and had a little chat with them but I couldn’t last as I was kind of shuffling along as my hamstrings were really really bad.
The chap I was speaking to in the park that I knew from earlier in the year passed me by and got me going for a couple of mins but I couldn’t last.
35k-40k (8mins 13secs behind plan)
Any sort of incline now was painful and a walk. Even the flats were bad. The heavens opened at times and there was plenty of floods. Just get home any way I can. At some stage here, the 3:50 pacers passed me and I tried to get going, but it wasn’t happening. I had to let them go.
40-42k (12mins 42second behind plan)
The last few kms were just a walk and shuffle home, I tried running very slow but couldn’t. Just get home. I saw my family with 500m to go so quick hug to my kids and continue on. Finish and be done.
Finish time: 3h 57m 15s. (15 min PB)
Immediate thoughts were great disappointment. Not in the time, but I just didn’t enjoy the run. It was tough from the start and I was annoyed because my hamstrings gave up. After working so hard since Dublin of last year, I was disappointed, but told myself that I still completed a marathon.
My family had a complete change of clothes for me (except shoes) including a towel so I got dry and felt good. I got bad chafing under the arms.
Thoughts since finishing.
Reflecting on the run, although I loved Hanson, I will likely try P&D next time. Maybe…
I have thought a lot since finishing about what comes next. Luckily I have Run the Line long course (26k) coming up in 3 weeks and I am really looking forward to it. It will be hard, so no running till Friday, 7 days of easing back in, and them maybe a trail run and a long run the weekend before. I won’t be racing it, just out to enjoy some running.
I also got the rejection from the Art O Neill challenge, but had also signed up to the Pursuit, so that’s January.
I have also being thinking for a few months about Connemarathon, either the Ultra or Marathon, to run not race. I’ll see how I get on over the next couple of months before deciding.
Something else I’ve been thinking a lot about since Sunday running a couple of 30km+ and maybe even if I can muster it, another marathon in mid-December as a long run. Not to race, but just to see what I can do, and give me some confidence that I can "run" over 37k.
Other thoughts -
I didn’t bring the Shokz on Sunday and I think that was a mistake. I could have done with something to take my mind away for a little while.
The water situation at Nutley lane last year wasn't a problem. Plenty of water to be had. Only problem was getting a bottle meant going ankle deep in the flood, but sure, we were all soaked through anyway.
I'll be signing up for next year definitely with a few things to put right.
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Sorry to hear the day didn't meet your expectations. It can be deflating when it happens. The best way to frame it is that there are learning opportunities to be had from the training block in addition to race week.
Before booking anything else, take a week off. The marathon is not something you can do every month or every other month, regardless of whether you are racing it or not. It takes its toll. Longevity should be the goal.
Without even reading past logs or the race summary, there are a couple of things that jump out:
The issue with your knees - the run up to a marathon is not the time to relying on foam rolling to sort out what appears to be a big issue. Get to a physio. Sure it costs money but you have spent a lot of time training and a lot of money on race entry, runners etc. Don't roll the dice this late in the training block.
A busy day prior to race day is not what you want. I tend to lean towards getting the pre race shakeout run done as early as possible the day before. By all means get to the expo and your daughter's football match but the rest of the day is feet up. It should be part of the marathon negotiations with family that you get feet up as much as possible the day(s) before. You can spend the following week/weekend walking around with family.
You don't need protein the morning of a big race. It takes longer for your body to digest/process protein. Carbs. Carbs. Carbs.
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Gutted it didn't go to plan J and it was a tough day for you.
I was tracking you and you looked so in control. Was sad to see the 40k timing mat update.
As Py said above take at least a week fully off before gently easing back in to things.
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Hanson's Advanced is a tough plan. Your expected finish time is baked in from day one so when you fail to reach it (despite a hefty PB) then, inevitably, your marathon is going to feel like a disappointment.
I would agree with you on the taper. It doesn't freshen you up and is far too short. This leads to far less confidence on the start line even though confidence might have been high when hitting targets during sessions earlier in the plan.
December is too soon to be having a crack at another marathon especially when your body broke down a bit on this one. Give it time to recover.
Fair play on encouraging others even while disappointed with how your own race was going. You might find the following useful when deciding on what plan to use for your next marathon - https://fellrnr.com/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Marathon_Training_Plans
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30th September - 5th November
Monday - rest
Tuesday - rest
Wednesday - rest
Thursday - rest
Friday - 3.7k @6:28 min/km
I was getting very bored during the week and needed to get out. Initial idea was to do a 6k very easy and slow loop but decided when I was out there to just go for the shorter lap.
Felt good, but still tight in a few places.
Saturday 6k @6:11 min/km
Another easy run, this time a little longer.
Sunday 10.5k @6:55min/km
Went out with MrsRef as she is trying to get comfortable at the 10k+ level. Very easy and relaxed pace, just to keep things moving.
Total for the week: 20.2km 2h 13m
Total for year: 2903km
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6th November - 12th November
Monday - rest
Tuesday - 18.7k @5.56 min/km
Decided to go out for an easy 10 miles that ended up a few k extra. Felt good throughout.
Wednesday - 10.4k @7:27 min/km
The wife was heading out and was eager to get another 10k in so I said I’d tag along, keep her back a little so she can get the distance done. Cold enough night, but was well wrapped up (hat, gloves, buff, rain jacket, long sleeve). Didn’t need so much, but decided to play it safe as I was going at a pace I was not used to. A total recovery run.
Thursday - rest
Friday - 13k @6:01 min/km
Was originally going to rest today but well… got out and really happy I did. I’m in a space now where I can just run for fun. No pressure - just enjoy.
Saturday 17k @5:47 min/km
Thoughts are firmly focused on Connemara Ultra in April. Not quite there in terms of confidence I can get ready for it, but should have a better idea mid-December.
One of the reasons on eyeing ultra distances is that a 10 mile at the moment just seems the minimum distance I like to go out for, unless I am pressed for time.
Sunday 24k @5:49min/km
Legs were feeling a little tired from yesterday and wasn’t quite sure what I was going to do when I headed out. Idea was “at least 10 miles” but decided after about 9k to continue running away from home instead of turning back towards it and I just ran easy. Uphill first half which was enjoyable (I like the hills). At about the 12k mark I just start smiling and thought this was one of the most enjoyable training runs I’ve had that I can remember. Just really really enjoyed it.
I absolutely know doing this type of volume the second week after a marathon is unwise/crazy/stupid and that I risk an injury. I know it, and I accept it.
At the moment, my 2024 focus is more towards running a few ultra distances. I’m doing a lot of reading and working my way through my recent purchases:
- Relentless Forward Progress (most the way through)
- The Science of Running (just 5 chapters in)
- Training for the Uphill Athlete (really looking forward to starting this)
- Training Essentials for Ultrarunning
I’ll give it a little more time before making my mind up on what I want to do next, but I am really liking the training concepts of ultra distances more so than the marathon.
Total for the week: 83.3 km 8h 26m 439 m
Total for year: 2992km
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You are not running easy enough. You just about scraped a sub 4. Your race pace would have been in the ~5:40/Km range which means you should be running easy at about ~6:10-6:20/Km. @Mr. Guappa ran close to 3:30 at DCM and his easy runs are slower than yours. Go read his log on what a disciplined approach looks like. There a number of other logs that will have successful Autumn marathons being documented. None of them are likely to have had 80Km+ weeks within a month of their completion. Especially if it had not gone to plan.
Running is as much about discipline and recovery as it is about putting one foot in front of the other. Between the "added a few extra Km" and "originally going to rest today", you don't seem to understand these concepts. The plan is the plan. Stick to it. If it says rest, you rest. If it says run easy for a specific distance, you run easy at a specific distance. The training plans are not there as a guide. They are a prescription with an end goal in mind and have been created by very knowledgeable people.
Progressing to ultra marathons before you address the issues above is going to have you on a road to persistent injuries or fatigue.
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So, I totally agree with you on the volume. Absolutely.
However, on the pace side, I’m not focusing at all on a single race (even if it was a big one) where it went wrong for a number of reasons (most of which I know). Instead, I’m looking at my previous races over the past 6 months (1:44 HM, 47min 10k). Easy pace for me is in and around 6:00 and is judged on a simple concept during every run – can I run by breathing through my nose a majority of the time. The paces I run are all within the ranges from the likes of McMillian, so the only issue is running on the faster end of easy so soon after Dublin (volume aside).
I also don’t have a plan now, apart from just running free and easy and avoiding injury. That’s one of the great things I am really enjoying after a long block of prescribed runs. I can run when I feel like it, and whatever pace I feel like. So, there is no plan that I can/should stick to. Now, saying that, I am not planning on doing close to the same volume over the next couple of weeks, but I’ll be joining you at RTL on Saturday, doing the long course. The only goal for that – enjoy some mountain running. Not running for any time. Just fun.
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"I also don’t have a plan now, apart from just running free and easy and avoiding injury"
Here's the rub....nothing you are doing is conducive to avoiding injury. Paces, distances and the immediacy after DCM are all wrong. I'm not going to get into how muscle fibres micro tear and how failure to let them repair ultimately leads to injury. It's not an if but a when. Letting them repair makes them stronger than before.
I know you say your are aware of the risk and are prepared to take it. Speaking from painful experience I can tell you that you don't know what you have until it's taken away. A period out injured is hell for most runners.
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Well as I said to you at Frank Duffy, you’re an adult and you can do what you like. Hope it works out!
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13th November - 19th November
Monday - rest
Tuesday - 7.5k@5:59min/km - very easy
Wednesday - 13k 5:52@min/km
With Run The Line coming up the weekend, decided to take on the only local not-short incline around Naas.
Thursday - 10.5k@5:46min/km & 11.6k @6:48min/km
Usual route I do for 10ks. A moderately-easy run over lunchtime listening to the Science of Ultra episode on doubles, as my wife wants me to run with her later.
Out again at 8pm for a 11.6km slow slow run. I don’t feel comfortable doing these, always finding it difficult to get a flowing rhythm. My hamstrings are talking to me, maybe still recovering from DCM but also from yesterdays hills.I bow out while the wife runs on for a while more.
Friday - rest
Saturday - Run The Line Long Course
This was my first time doing RTL after missing out last year from injury. I had done the 3 Gaelforce 10k events during the year, thoroughly enjoying them and feeling comfortable. However, being just 3 weeks after DCM, I was absolutely out for a run and not a race. I didn’t know the route, terrain or the type of conditions to expect, so I approached the day as something of an opportunity to learn a few things. In the end I learned so so much.
Based on the Gaelforce results I thought on a decent day I would be around the top third, which based upon previous years results would mean about a 2:50 finish. I was in no condition for that, so went in aiming for closer to 3:30 and decided to start towards the back of Wave 2 (sub 3:30).
I arrived about 8:50am for a 10:10am start, getting there early as I didn’t know what the parking situation would be like. There was loads of space and next time I’ll arrive later.
I didn’t know what to wear - originally thinking short sleeve and jacket. After going for a wander, I headed back to the car and decided to change to a Inov8 long sleeve I recently picked up and the Stormshell 2 jacket. Also brought a buff that I wore as a bandana occasionally throughout. I brought a hydration vest with a bladder holding 1.5liters of water. A few gels and decided to bring some dried apricots to chew on as I wanted to try something different than the usual gels. Apricots worked well. Also had a bunch of Fast Chews.
Another change was to use the Trail Running option on the Garmin instead of the standard Run option. This would give me the elevation I gained since the start and I knew it was about 950-1000 meters overall incline. This was a mistake as the screen didn’t show the total distance of a few other data points I like to keep an eye on. Also, for whatever reason, the HR monitor on the watch was all over the place for the entire day - going from 135 to 180 and back. It was a problem because I wanted to use it to help hold me back. I had the chest strap in the car but decided against wearing it.
Next time: wear the strap.
I also decided just before starting to discard the jacket, just wearing my long sleeve and buff.
My goal was to walk the inclines and run the rest.
After the start, it was heading into the unknown. As said, I didn’t know the route, terrain or what to expect. What followed was really a few hours of complete concentration and hard work. I had an early fall after catching a rock, but nothing hurt except pride. I later had a dancing like Bambi on ice when I decided to try to run through a wet muddy patch, but again, all good.
I don’t actually recall too much about the different aspects as we were in and out of woods, narrow trails, mud, rocky paths, and the occasional long incline on hard gravel. A few times I found myself in a familiar place from a few hikes I had done in years past, but most of the time I hadn’t a breeze where I was. I also didn’t really know how long the course was. I didn’t recall if the course was 26k or 27k. It ended up being 25k and 1029m incline on my watch.
About the 20k mark, I was spent. Both hamstrings were playing up and the bottom of both calves were not feeling great. Soon though everything settled except for my left hamstring which was giving proper trouble. I stopped a few times to stretch it out. It was only about the 23k mark where it was properly playing up, so the final 2k were a hobble home. I never really knew how much I had left to run until about maybe 700 meters from the end where I could see the route to the finish line. Too many times in previous events I see the finish only to realise the route spiraled away. I also didn’t recall the route from the start at all. Happy to be finished in 3:21:21.
After a chat at the end with some others, I got a burger and chips from the Cafe, and headed back to the car to get changed and sat for a while.
I struggled to sleep on Saturday night due to the all-body ache I now have. Lots and lots of walking and early nights to be done this week.
As I said, I learned so much from this run and I am very happy I done it. I will seriously look at it again next year, but I’ve been contemplating recently of not racing DCM next year - running it yes, but not racing. I’ll still expect a PB as I am still a noob, but that will give me some freedom to fit in a few more things I want to explore.
So, what did I learn:
- RTL long course is nothing like a Gaelforce event. The runners are much more serious. The course is incredibly technical.
- Running in November in the Dublin Mountains is wild in a great way. Weather is all over the place.
- I need to work more on S&C, and in particular my hamstrings. They got me at DCM, and played up much worse today.
- I wore Hoka Speedgoats (wide) and are good for up to 10mile but after that, I need a wider toebox.
- Apricots were delicious and easy to eat and digest. Just need to figure out calorific content and bulk vs other stuff.
- The hydration vest (Salomon) is incredibly comfortable and I was really glad I brought 1.5l as I drank it all. It never felt a burden.
- I really loved the challenge. I found it incredibly tough and can’t wait to get back to the Dublin mountains. (hopefully 3 weeks due to time constraints).
- My DCM22 training had a lot more sustained inclines in my long runs. DCM 23 had few, if any. I think this caused a lot of my problems at DCM23 and RTL. Next year, I'll need to do a lot more.
Finally, the volunteers are wonderful people. They were all so appreciative and friendly. An incredibly well run event.
Next organized run - Art O Neill Pursuit in January.
Sunday - walk and rest.
Total for the week: 68.1 km 7h 42m
Total for year: 3060km
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Well done! FYI you must carry a jacket with you at this event and IMRA events. This is in case something happens on the mountain - you need a layer to keep you warm while you wait for help. If you don't carry a jacket, you'll be taking one from someone else who will no doubt give you theirs (leaving themselves without one). If you haven't done any IMRA events I'd highly recommend them (also run by volunteers).
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Thanks Annie. Yep, I did carry the jacket in my vest, just didn't wear it as originally planned. I've been looking at the IMRA for a while now. Think I'll give a few a go... thx.
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20th November - 27th November
Ok, it may seem like I don’t listen to the feedback here, but I honestly do! However, I am the type that needs to really understand the WHY before I embrace a change. While I’ve read quite a few books that talked about the benefits of running proper slow, I don’t ever remember any of them explaining the why. They all seemed to repeat the same mantra - look at these examples and based on these studies… They never seem to explain the physiological benefits. A book I am lapping up at the moment is Training for the Uphill Athlete. A hugely interesting book that explains a lot of the why’s without being too scientific. That’s given me clarity on not only what my easy runs should be, but also help me make the decision to spend the next few months on almost exclusive Zone 2 training. I know my MHR from recent hard efforts, and using the Karvonen formula, even with a bit of wiggle room to account for inaccuracies of my HR measurements, I reckon my zone 2 is 130-140 bpm. So, I’ve decided for the remainder of this year and into next, to run almost all of my runs in this range, averaging about 135 bpm. I've also spoken with a gent in UCD and plan on getting tested in early Feb.
The reason I am embracing this so much is due to the feedback I’ve got in this thread, the information in the book, but also considering how Dublin went this year. Only 38% of my runs from 1-Aug to marathon day were in this Z2 range. While I hit all my targets in the Hanson plan and many were quite comfortable, I never felt comfortable on the day, but importantly fell apart around the 30k mark (again). This is telling me that maybe I have a low aerobic threshold. Also, looking back at my runs from 1-Aug to marathon day, less than 40% were in this Zone 2 range. Maybe that's the issue I'm having...
After some period of time, I will move from 100% more towards 80%, but for now I'm happy enough with how it's going.
Monday - rest
Tuesday - rest
Wednesday - 10.5k @6:27min/km (135 bpm)
Thursday - 11.3k @6:28min/km (135 bpm)
Friday - 10k @7:00min/km (126 bpm) (running with the wife)
Saturday 20k @6:17min/km (136 bpm)
Sunday 20.6k @6:21min/km (137 bpm)
Total for the week: 72.8 km 7h 50m
Total for year: 3133km
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