Wife told me she does not love me anymore
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I believe that the housework aspect, which some posters insist on pushing, has definitely taken this thread off on a distracting tangent. The OP only mentioned two sentences concerning this, i.e. the following:
She mainly does everything in the home. I try help out as much as I can, the dishes, hoovering, making beds, taking care of kids, bins etc.
I interpret this as meaning that while his wife is a stay at home wife, who makes a lot of effort around the house, he is not one of these chaps who does absolutely nothing, but does in fact make an effort to contribute.
At no point does the OP mention that his wife has any issue with him not pulling his weight, or that the source of her dismay is in anyway linked to him not doing certain chores, or taking general responsibility within the family home.
I do not know why this conclusion is being drawn by some, as there is nothing at all in the OP to allude to this.
For me, the crux of the issue lies is within the following comments from the OP:
I upset her and let her down on things, not out of choice but just deciding and me making wrong decisions. We've been in a roller-coaster relationship for years with me always promising to be a better husband. Things go well for a while and then something happens, I say something stupid or don't treat her the way she expects and I lose her again for another incident and then we try recover from that.
This sounds to me to be nothing at all do to with shared participation within the home, etc.
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I don’t have advice on how to fix the relationship, but I will say this.
if she wants out then let her out,
always remember that she is the one that wants out, you seem like you don’t.
if ye have a spare room, then suggest she moves into it, why should you leave your bed because she doesn’t want to be there anymore. If she doesn’t want that then you move into it. If it means having a younger child sleep with her then do it.
don’t argue or cause problems.
ignore her and don’t make chit chat, only speak about responsibility, minding the kids and whatever else, if ye start arguing , remove yourself from the situation, go upstairs and put on headphones or something.
try and make an agreement on set days one of ye needs to be in the house, at weekends for instance, there is no need for both of ye there, if ye aren’t a couple.
the days you are free go away and do something, if you have nothing to do, then go and have a nice meal in a hotel and get a room for the night, or go on a date, you don’t need tell her what you are doing, it’s not really her business anymore.
on the weekends you have the kids, then take them off for a drive for the day, or go to the cinema or something.
its not an easy thing, I’ve been there myself, don’t get into the mindset that you have to leave, you are perfectly entitled to stay in your home.
try and just keep away, if you can turn the spare room into a place where you can relax then do, TV, PlayStation or whatever when you have a couple of hours to yourself.
you can move on without upheaving your life.
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I'm not diagnosing anyone as "emotionally abusive" or "temprementally unstable". Nor am I here to get into a discussion with you about it.
I'm here to advise the OP.
It sounds to me like his wife has been trying to communicate with him for some time, but he hasn't really been hearing what she is trying to communicate to him, or he does, but slips back into old habits. Maybe she is being unreasonable. Maybe she is not. That is for the OP to figure out for himself. We don't know the specifics, nor does he need to divulge them here.
So my advice to him is to take any "advice" which jumps to the immediate conclusion that he has no fault here while slapping derogatory labels on his wife, with extreme caution.
The other piece of advice I would offer to him is to try and raise the option of marriage counselling again.
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I've been in both situations, where my husband was the breadwinner, and I stayed at home, and now it's the other way around, because it didn't work the other way, mainly due unaligned expectations on what what work staying at home with children is. We had to change it.
I am now the breadwinner in my family, my husband is the stay at home parent. He looks after the children all day, and manages some school bits etc, that is his "job". I wouldn't dream of expecting him to cook, shop, clean, run the bills, arrange social calendar etc all on his own, or anywhere near the majority of it on TOP of that. We are grown ups, share finances (ALL pooled accounts, my wage is his wage), use a joint calendar and communicate if either of us is under pressure. We are a team, a marriage. I do not take his efforts for granted , or expect anything because of me getting a wage, and him not. He supports me in my career, by looking after our children, not the other way around. My job is like holiday compared to keeping small children safe and alive. The chores are all of our responsibilities, including the children. And I would not make financial decisions alone, there is a large hint the OP has done this a few times. (Made wrong decisions... like what, a surprise car replacement?)
When the roles are reversed, and sadly demonstrated repeatedly in this thread, is that many Irish men expect their wives should just shut up and to be super-grateful if their husband earns a wage, and puts out a bin once a week, and makes decisions that affect them all without discussion, while the wives have all the "care-giving" responsibilities including the majority of chores and housekeeping. This is massively unbalanced, and yes, utterly misogynistic. These days, women don't put up with it because they don't have to. It's not emotional instability (ugh, lazy trope), when they want to get out of the that situation, it's self-preservation.
How about you come back to me when you've actually been the SAHP without an income yourself, rather than the naïve theoretical conjecture?
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If somebody generalised about women the way you are generalising about men there would be uproar.
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And I would not make financial decisions alone, there is a large hint the OP has done this a few times.
Where are you seeing this is what the OP wrote?
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there is no way a 50/50 split is reasonable when one person is working and one person has hours off while the kids are in school.
There is nothing to suggest from the OP that he does 50% of the household jobs.
Regardless of all the above OP, I think housework is a distraction here. Your wife is not ending your marriage because of housework. There will be a lot more going on for her. And if you're honest with yourself there will be a lot you are unhappy about too. It is pretty much impossible for one person to be blissfully happy in a marriage while the other person is completely miserable and looking to get out. The only appropriate advice people can offer is to try and discuss it with her. Whether or not that discussion leads to you both separating, or leads to you both deciding that you have something worth saving will be down to you both.
1 person is very very rarely the sole cause of a marriage breakdown. It is very unlikely to be 100% your wife's fault. It is equally very unlikely to be completely your fault. You both have played a part in getting to where you are today. By your actions, and your reactions. It is very common in marriages, with small children, for people to drift apart, for communication to go awry. The focus tends to shift to the children, to looking after them, feeding them, getting them to where they need to be etc. Very easily a couple can forget that they are a couple, a unit, a team in the middle of all that. Very easy to get exhausted and grow resentful of each other, each thinking the other one has it easier.
If your marriage has any hope of surviving you need to be able to sit down and talk through everything. Everything. One person on their own can't save a broken marriage. If your wife wants out and refuses to talk, there's little or nothing you can do except put plans in place to split as amicably as possible. Mediation will be advised. The Family Mediation Service is a free service. I'm sure there's a waiting list. But if your wife is determined it would be very very beneficial to you both to go to mediation.
Post edited by Big Bag of Chips on3 -
The original post is not comprehensive in any way.
We don't know what the issues were that upset her, what the 'wrong decisions' were, what treatment she didn't like so it's literally impossible to tell what's going on, we just know that it's toxic and it all seems to have come to a head for the wife.
Is the wife responding in a way that any reasonable woman would likely to respond if those things were going on? Or does she fly off the handle over tiny things? It's impossible to tell because the original post is far from comprehensive. There is no way to know from what's been said if she's emotionally abusive or not.
What the OP has said about himself in the post could be a huge red herring because in my experience most men say the exact same thing when their wife wants to split up and a lot of the time it's misrepresenting the truth and minimising serious issues.
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The posts by MrSoundie and Str8outtaWuhan are very wise.
1. Turn on your location on your phone. Keep it on permanently until you're finished with the legal issues. This record will be exceedingly important in refuting her false allegations when they come. Assume they will come. Prepare for the worst.
2. Under 'Timeline' in location you can go back years and use it to help jog your memory when you start writing your daily diary. Record her in that diary and put keywords - e.g. anger, abuse, money, control, etc - next to each event you log. That way you do a simple ctrl, f and type into the pop-up box and build your legal case with examples of the relevant issue.
3. Start talking to somebody now about what's happening. You need that perspective, that sounding board. When the Section 47 (best interests of the child report) comes along, the assessor will talk with all mental health professionals and counsellors. If your wife is taking medication for anxiety, depression, etc take notes as you can be sure she'll throw everything at you in order to keep the family home and kids for herself. Don't underestimate her.
4. More immediately, I would suggest you do two things.
1. If in Dublin, attend the next support group meeting for people heading towards divorce ("separation" is mostly redundant since 2019, when the law was changed to allow one to divorce after 2 years). There are two I can find, and meeting others will be a baptism of fire when you learn from their experiences and knowledge of the legal process:
Stillorgan, this coming Saturday morning at 10:30pm: https://meetu.ps/e/MkWvG/8JRYq/i
Phibsboro, next Monday at 7pm (last meeting until September): https://meetu.ps/e/Ml7YW/8JRYq/i
2. Get serious legal advice from a serious family law specialist. Pay the money, email your questions the night before and write down the answers. People in the support groups can help you with what sort of questions you should be asking - e.g. pensions, shared parenting, selling the family home, etc.
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Adopt the attitude that anything you do is not personal but just business. You have to protect yourself and your kids. I doubt this is a sudden thing-she chould have given some sort or warning that something untoward was happening from her POV.
Good luck.
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It's not the first time I've seen these extremely paranoid posts making out that women who want to divorce are likely to be evil, vindictive and mental and go around making all sorts of accusations, encouraging note taking about her mental health and so on 🧐
Absolutely no reason to assume this woman is any way like that or to freak him out encouraging him to become a paranoid wreck
Most divorces/child custody arrangements do not end up that way at all. Encouraging that kind of paranoia is far more likely to cause problems than to actually prevent them.
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OP ignore this. Prepare for the worst.
Everything will probably go smoothly but, if they don't, they can and will go bad for you very quickly.
You'll never recover momentum for that first unfounded and undefended accusation.
No one is telling you to be an ass or to become needlessly vindictive just most guys have 1st or close second hand knowledge of how quickly family law turns on them.
There is a very good chance that you end up out of the family home, paying the rent/mortgage, while scrambling for somewhere.
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OP it's up to you to look after yourself. Only you know the truth of your post and people should be giving advice on your post and not invented scenarios they wish to see, in the post. You could be selling us a crock of sh1t but my assuming that is not the point of this forum, from what I can see. We should advise based on information presented
You'll, repeatedly, get posters saying that you're lying or making omissions, and constantly trying to "both sides".
You're the one here calling for help, not your wife, but you'll get people who take it on themselves to, for reasons only they know, twist your words or invent their own narrative.
Your isolation from friends and hobbies alone is a warning sign, for me, as is your mentioning of verbal degrading. Your marriage is over and it really looks like you're isolated with no one to turn to.
That is why you need a solicitor. Support group is good and they'll have gone through the negatives but just be aware that they can be overly cynical and jaded from this.
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Off topic rant removed and warning applied
Post edited by Hannibal_Smith on2 -
Any plenty of other responses on this forum recommend posters to apply for barring and safety orders - it's part of the playbook from many solicitors and you can nearly guarantee will be advised by the OP's wife's friends.
She's already said that she doesn't love him, so there's very little moral dilemma, and a potentially huge financial incentive for her if he is forced from the family home.
The OP would be unbelievably naïve to assume that a woman who doesn't love him wouldn't do everything in her power to keep a roof over her own head.
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She says she doesn't love him. Now.
And while that must have been incredibly painful to hear, I don't think the OP should give up all hope that their marriage is unsalvageable. (And not for the cynical reasons of finances only).
I think everyone here realises that relationships take a lot of work, and though she may feel like this towards him now, its quite possible her feelings for her husband are just being buried and overwhelmed by whatever other problems have been going on between them. Look at the examples posted here by other people who have felt their marriages were over or close to over, but came back from the brink of separation and are still together years later.
This is why the OP should not just give up and throw in the towel immediately. He says he still loves her very much. Marriages and relationships go through good and bad times. He needs to be sure, and she needs to be sure, that she truly doesn't love him anymore. This is why the OP should really insist on at least giving marriage counselling a decent attempt. I get the impression from the original post that they have never tried counselling before, despite having problems for a long time. It might be the making of them.
If she doesn't want to try, and won't consider counselling, then the OP should absolutely follow the advice to remain as amicable as possible, while also protecting himself, and his rights to his children.
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There's more than enough in the original post to make a fair judgement on both the marriage & the OP's spouse imho.
The up & down nature of their relationship for many years, the emotional blackmail, the giving up of his friends & past times, the constant appeasement to please her that is described in their relationship dynamic, the fact she has stated she doesn't love him anymore yet was holding his hand a few weeks back (like hello!?), and worst the derogatory comments madeby her about him as a husband and father, assumedly for some time too.
For anyone who will take the OP at his word (and I do), these are all massive red flags about her relationship with him, but also about her emotional stability, her manipulative and distancing behaviours, etc, etc. It's pretty obvious imho, it's all in the original post.
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Again, you're making and awful lot of assumptions and coming to an awful lot of conclusions based on very little information, and (I suspect) you're own internalised bias.
I don't doubt the OPs word. But nowhere does the OP say in his opening post that reducing contact with his friends (he didn't give them up, he still sees them, albeit infrequently) was at the behest of his wife. Or that she has manipulated him into anything. That is what you're choosing to see.
Also, you are choosing to interpret her attempts at communicating her unhappiness to her husband as "emotional blackmail".
He admits to letting her down at times, and making bad decisions, yet you are completely brushing over his part in all of this. He also says:
All I do is try my best, I NEVER do anything out of spite or negativity, its just how things end up going sometimes out of my control, or how things are perceived.
So what makes you think he has never said anything derogatory to his wife? This sentence would hint otherwise.
Ultimately, what do you think she should do if she is unhappy - just shut up and coast along and not say anything to him, as long as he keeps bringing home the bacon?
Because it certainly seems that is exactly what you expect her to do. And worse, you expect her to stay with him and be grateful, for that reason too.
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the fact she has stated she doesn't love him anymore yet was holding his hand a few weeks back (like hello!?),
There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, and I'd imagine a very common occurrence in relationships that are in trouble. How often do we hear of exes ending up in bed together again? I can personally speak from experience of being in a marriage that was on its very last legs. Knowing that my feelings for my husband had completely changed. Feeling that I didn't want to continue in a marriage with him, that I didn't love him. That I wanted out, and quick. And yet at the same time wanting to hug him. Wanting him to hug me and reassure me that we'd be ok. That it'd work out. I didn't love him, but I did care about him. We were a long time together. We had 4 children together. Even if/when we broke up we were still going to be very much connected. Things were bad, but our relationship had also been very very good too. And even in a marriage breakdown where it's fir the best, feelings are still involved. And feelings are complicated.
Breaking up a marriage isn't as straightforward and black and white as some people here seem to believe.
OP, please try talk to your wife. Please. You mentioned you are overwhelmed. Don't for a second think she isn't and please take advice from this thread that is relevant to you. There is a lot of opinion from a lot of people here. Some with zero experience of marriage or relationships. Some with limited experience. Do not take relationship advice from people whose only relationship experience seems to come from watching Nickelodeon shows. We always advise people to take from threads what is relevant to them and ignore what's not. The goal here is to try communicate with your wife. Whether that is with a view to recovering your relationship or separating amicably.
Post edited by Big Bag of Chips on10 -
If she wants the marriage to end, that's it, I don't see why you would argue with her, she knows you pretty well, if she doesn't want to be with you then you've to take that on the chin, hard as it is.
I'd advise you to talk to a lawyer and a counsellor. I'd imagine you are in very serious distress and would need some help, while it's also important you don't make foolish decisions around things like custody and the house ye live in.
TBH it sounds quite miserable having so few friends and interests, it would seem to be quite hard for anyone to be content in that position. Were you generally happy over the years?
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A friend of mine met a great man online, she is with him now for a good many years. But she did tell me she had to teach him to be thoughtful and affectionate, it didn’t come naturally at first, but he caught onto the notion of being thoughtful about the small everyday things like offing a cup of tea when he’d make one for himself, as well as the bigger gestures.
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My last word on this thread: I think there is a general lack of stickiness/work ethic/stoicism in people today. Many have been reared on a diet of "it's all going to be amazing" and when rubber meets road they have no stamina to stay the course, no sense that it's a few tough years of small kids and doing things we don't like or want to do.
Often, - people like this find a partner who is completely different, - who gets the fact that it's a marathon not a sprint.
Both sexes are equally guilty.
In men, it often shows itself as not being attracted to their partner post having children with body shape changes.
With women it's often more about feeling fulfilled.
There is a value to toughness and for most of us it gets tough at least for a while.
But it does get better.
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”
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There really isn't.
The OP has not explained what the issues are that she is unhappy about. It is literally impossible to make a fair judgement without knowing that.
A few people have made the assumption that she has isolated him from his friends and hobbies, but he never indicated anything of the sort, we don't know if the wife has friends or hobbies either. They could both be sitting in the house every evening.
The derogatory comments about him as a husband and father, I told my ex he was being a bad father, when he was, due to drugs, smashing the house up etc. I'm sure I called him plenty of other stuff too. The reality was that he was abusing me, not the other way around. I'm not accusing the OP of that in any way, but without knowing what the incidents were which led to her saying those things it is impossible to actually understand the dynamic.
Also saying she doesn't love him but a few weeks ago holding his hand, that means absolutely nothing and isn't unusual.
It's not that those who question him are not taking him at his word, it's that we literally only have part of the story. I can believe he doesn't do things out of spite etc. but we don't know what it is that he has done that has upset her so much.
And you say you're taking him at his word, but you're not, the OP has said his wife has a caring personality, he's said he's made wrong decisions, and has upset her by saying the wrong things or not treating her the way she expects.....yet in your head you've conjured up this story that she's abusing him and that he's internalising the abuse thinking he must have done things wrong when really he hasn't.
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Most women don't lie to keep the roof over their head. Everything in her power for most women would mean fighting for the house in court if it came to it, not making up lies.
I never even applied for any kind of order when my ex when was threatening to kill me etc. (I should have, but that's a different story). I've sat with female friends going through long drawn out break ups talking about how hard it was living in the same house and no one in the group suggested lying about anything to get him out of the house.
I'm not saying that it doesn't happen but it certainly isn't the norm.
My own experience breaking up with my ex was horrific and scary and I am always nervous about women dealing with mens anger when the family breaks up, and would tell my friends to be cautious in case it might happen etc but not to the point of being a paranoid wreck that thinks their spouse/ex is now their enemy who is plotting their demise.
Most people just look forward to the future where they can hopefully co-parent well and in a civil way and even hopefully be on friendly terms.
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More data required for a definitive diagnosis. For example, her feelings, or the lack thereof, may be justified depending on what happened.
If things do go tits up, try to minimize escalation on the legal front and keep the hostility down. It’s your one family after all, not some rival firm. Far better for your kids that way. You’ll see the benefits in the long run.
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Marlyn,
With all due respect I think there's more than enough in the original post to make a call on the relationship and his wife's role in it. It's all there both in content & tone.
E.g Yes, like it's relevant, you say you probably called your partner a bad boyfriend & father when he was smashing the house up due to being out of his head on drugs. The OP has been told he is a bad husband and father when all he states he has ever done, is simply do his best. (& the rest of the post backs that up e.g. Good provider, contributing to house work, concentrating on his family versus his own interests & friends, appeasement of & devotion to his wife (even now!!) , willingness to go to counselling, etc, etc) There's a stark difference there, don't you think!?
Anyone who reads the OP's post in it's entirety can see the dynamic at play here. It's not that complicated, but yes it seems one side and quite sad.
The OP needs to look after himself and his kids now, and leave this deadweight of a missus off . She wants out anyways, so he should do what he always seems to have tried to do, give her what she wants!! good riddance too by the sounds of things tbh !!
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With all due respect, there isn't.
As I said, I wasn't accusing the OP of doing anything like that. I stated earlier though that I heard all of the same stuff from my ex like a script, "he's doing his best, made mistakes but never on purpose etc, made the wrong decisions, " It is a very common theme, so I'm simply stating without knowing what exactly the issues are then it's impossible to make a judgement. Which it is. You can say that there's more than enough there to make a judgement if you want, but if this were counselling then the therapist wouldn't accept that as a full and final account of what was actually going on in the situation at all. It's just his feelings and motivations as he sees them. They would not be able to actually offer the relevant advice without knowing what behaviour/actions actually accompanies the thoughts and feelings.
The wife could give her feelings and motivations as she sees them which could run very similar, tried my best to be best wife and mother and so on, always tried to support my husband, everything I do is for my family, but I get upset and frustrated by things he's done and I'm sick of the rollercoaster.
Without the counsellor knowing wtf was actually going on then it's impossible to make a judgement. The same applies everywhere.
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I feel sympathy for your situation OP. It seems like you have fallen into the trap of a lot of husbands – there’s difficulty in the relationship, the husband tries harder but in doing so comes across as submissive and the wife loses any sense of respect and attraction. It’s a positive feedback cycle whereby the harder you try to please her, the less respect she will have for you.
When she’s thinking about divorce she will see you as a walk-over. Basically, you leave the house, pay for your own place, keep paying all the bills and act as a childminder when it suits her. Because you put her up on a pedestal (“I adore her”, “the sexiest woman out there”), you will keep doing these things because at a subconscious level you hope your sacrifices will bring her back.
You need to quickly set out your boundaries. Consult a solicitor and have a plan for each of the scenarios. She needs to be clear about the consequences of divorce – and one of these should not be you working as a slave so she can continue to enjoy all the benefits of a stay-at-home lifestyle.
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Join Date:Posts: 2498
I have to laugh at the idea of enjoying "the benefits of a stay at home lifestyle". I've been at home with a baby and I've been at work full time, and I can tell you which one is easier!
For the OP, be very slow to move out. Get legal advice and get in touch with a mediator. I hope you can all find a way forward. I'm sure it feels hopeless right now but the dawn will come. Good luck.
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Yes, I also laughed at that comment.
The "stay at home lifestyle" which includes running back and forwards during the day getting kids to school in the morning, then collecting kids from school, (and if you've more than one, sometimes at different collection times). Taking them to and from any activities or keeping them occupied after school, getting homework done etc and in the meantime between the school runs and child care, the expectation that you should be doing everything else in the house including all cooking, cleaning and shopping, and probably also taking care of all the routine things that can come up with kids like taking care of them when they're sick, doing all the doctor or dentist visits, etc.
Anyone who thinks a stay at home parent sits around on their arse all day, watching daytime TV, is utterly clueless. I've done both too and going to work all day at an office was far easier in my opinion. If someone were to sit down and add up the wages they'd need to pay for a full time childminder, cook and housekeeper, in lieu of a stay at home parent, they'd soon realise the true value of the work of a stay at home parent.
OP, I hope you've had a chance to talk to your wife since you started this thread, and have maybe started to figure out some things. Best of luck.
Post edited by Ezeoul on3
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