Wife told me she does not love me anymore

Lost778899

hi,

Not sure what Im trying to ask. I'm a bit overwhelmed. I know we have had our issues. I dont mean any bad or negativity to my wife, all I do is try my best to be the best man I can be but I do push things under the carpet I suppose. She is a stay at home wife since 2015 and we have three kids. My priority is to finance everything, the cars, the mortgage the loans, the kids and her day to day. She mainly does everything in the home. I try help out as much as I can, the dishes, hoovering, making beds, taking care of kids, bins etc. I dont really have any hobbies, dont go out. I have two friends that I see maybe once or twice a year. Everything I do is for my family but somehow myself and my wife get into a cycle of things going wrong, I upset her and let her down on things, not out of choice but just deciding and me making wrong decisions. We've been in a roller-coaster relationship for years with me always promising to be a better husband. Things go well for a while and then something happens, I say something stupid or don't treat her the way she expects and I lose her again for another incident and then we try recover from that.

Well, she just told me she has nothing else to give. I'm just devastated. I honestly adore and love this woman, her humor, her wit, her caring personality and I honestly find her the sexiest women out there and will do anything for her, but somehow beyond my understanding, I am being told that I'm a bad husband and sometimes bad parent. I dont know what to do. All I do is try my best, I NEVER do anything out of spite or negativity, its just how things end up going sometimes out of my control, or how things are perceived. Maybe my communication is dire, I dunno. I'm just fkin lost and so sad. She puts a pillow between us in the bed, doesnt talk to me, leaves the room if I walk in etc. Only a few weeks ago she would hold my hand, call me babe etc, roller-coaster!!!

She doesnt want to go to any sort of marriage Councillor as shes given up, "whats the point, whats there to save"

What do I do

mrsoundie

I went through the same thing, it is horrible. She wanted out and that's what happened, even though we went to counselling, it ended. I am not saying that together this could be saved, but you must prepare for everything, including breaking up. Putting the pillow between you is a real sign that, for her this is over. A break up whilst painful at first will be better in the long run, especially for your children. Don't make the mistake of saying that you will pay for everything, as I have seen friends do this and it cripples them financially for years, make no promises. You will after all have to provide a home for your kids, when you get them, for weekends, holidays, etc.

Do go and see a counsellor for yourself and get mediation for the break-up, protect yourself at all times and becareful what you say (write down everythng in case it gets nasty).

Str8outtaWuhan

If you are working and supporting herself and the kids you are the best type of husband and father because you are giving your wife the chance to be a proper mother and your kids the chance to be raised by a parent and not some baby warehouse aka crèche. Tbh when my missus decided to be a full time mother we sat down and I said no bother, I'll work like a slave but she would do likewise at home. My advice as others is to try counselling but have an eye to her lawyering up. Be very wary of her drawing u into arguments , she might record them and use them against u try to get u out if house. Start putting hard cash away in case.

spaceHopper

Reading between the lines, you believe that she's done nothing wrong and it's all your fault. That simply isn't the case.

"Everything I do is for my family but somehow myself and my wife get into a cycle of things going wrong, I upset her and let her down on things, not out of choice but just deciding and me making wrong decisions."

I thinks she been hot and cold and basically passive aggressive with you by pushing you for something else that is bothering her .

Get counseling for yourself. Haven't read it but a book called no more mr nice guy is meant be very good.

Ask her if you split, what does she expect to happen, the house to be sold and buy an 3 bed apartment each, you can share 50:50 custody and of course running two households is expensive so she'll need to start looking for a job. You will both have to accept a large drop in living standards. Sell the expensive cars clear the loans and get cheap runarounds

That will soften her cough.

Lost778899

Thank you for the comments, I really appreciate it!

iniscealtra

I would start to change things straight away if she is serious about a split. Talk about putting the house up for sale. Look into part-time at work or job share options so you can share custody or if not childcare options. If she is at home from 2015 the kids must be in school by now. Think about how you will organise this. I agree with @Str8outtaWuhan if she is serious about a split things will change. If she wants her life to remain the same she will have to work on the marriage instead of just opting out.

HazeDoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120875699#Comment_120875699

Not sure this is great advice. Are you hoping that if he reminds her that her lifestyle might be downgraded she'll change her mind and stay with him? Are you assuming that his wife is a golddigger, motivated only by the trappings of affluence? Would anybody want a partner who stays because they don't want a smaller car?

For whatever reason she's unhappy in the marriage. She has already reached a point where the nice house and car aren't enough to keep her engaged in the relationship.

Nobody here knows why she has checked out. Maybe she's manipulative, playing games to score points and keep him guessing why he's a terrible husband this time. Maybe the OP is oblivious to a million little ways he genuinely lets her down. There's nothing as lonely as a bad relationship and if she wants out, you should too.

Be nice, stay friends. Demonstrate that you aren't going to engage in sneaky tactics to win minor victories.

Where do you want to be in 5 years? You want a good relationship with your kids and a hassle-free co-parenting setup. The best way to achieve this is by making sure the breakup doesn't become a battleground. Separate houses, smaller cars, custody arrangements - that's going to happen no matter what. You still have some control over how ugly things get and how stressful and damaging the process becomes. Get a mediator, keep your eye on a 5-year goal.

Maybe communicate to her that you've accepted this. Tell her you want to do it right, as fairly as possible and with as little animosity as possible. Set the tone.

Down the line you might get a chance to ask her what made up her mind. You might not like what you hear but it might clarify things.

skallywag

You have my sympathy OP, and I can certainly relate, as we also have a family member who went through something quite similar.

Also has 3 kids (the last of which she pushed hard for in order to 'make the family complete'.), he worked his way into a good job meaning that she could stop working completely when they got married. He willingly gave every penny that he earned over to her and the kids, never bought anything for himself, and ended up with little or no friends himself who he ever could talk to about anything, etc. Although there was a good salary coming in, they did not accumulate much in the way of savings. She liked having expensive furniture, designer gear for the kids, expensive foreign trips, etc., so they lived a very high quality of life.

They certainly did seem very happy though, and it seemed to be exactly what they both really wanted. It thus came as a real shock, to me at least, when she declared out of the blue one day that she no longer loved him and that she wanted out. The youngest child was still only a toddler at this point. He was absolutely blind sided by this, and subsequently went on to go through a very painful divorce. In the end he just wanted it to be over and done with, so ended up voluntarily paying her a lot more than she would have been legally entitled to, but he did so in any case just to have it done and dusted. His father ended up giving him his full life savings more or less in order to make the settlement.

The whole situation still makes no sense whatsoever to me when I think it over, and I still cannot imagine what her thought process was. He is beginning to rebuild now and is on the up again. They share the kids 50-50, and he still lives in the family home, she lives in another house which he will pay for over the next 5 years.

I am afraid I cannot offer you much advice OP, can only share my own experiences with you, which I can only hope will help or support you in some small way.

All the best.

kirving

You mention at the beginning of your post that you don't have many hobbies, don't go out, and bottle up your emotions rather than fight.

That might seem noble, to put others happiness before your own so to speak, but it's not objectively a good thing. You need to have a life outside your family, to have friends and hobbies, and to be someone desirable in your own right. Being a slave to family life is not attractive.

I'm not suggesting this is in any way your fault, and many relationships and marriages end up this way (for both men and women) just out of circumstance, money pressures, location, etc, but it can also be due to one partner unconsciously (or consciously) manipulating the other to their way of thinking. Great for the manipulator, for a while, until they get bored, and realise that there is only so much you can give in that regard.

Your contribution to the relationship and family life needs to be more than the sum of your physical actions, because you could earn a ton of money, do every job god sends, and still not be a desirable partner in your own right.

Mine is only one of many perspectives, and the truth could be completely different, I'm just a stranger on the internet giving my 2 cents based on your post. I don't mean to have a go whatsoever, but just to remind you to get out into the world, make friends (it can be incredibly difficult for men), start a hobby, take care of your physical and mental health. Not that any of that will change her mind btw, this is all for you.

Packrat

Common enough story. A dose of the real world and living costs these days should make her see what she has, but usually by the time that happens, the relationship is irreconcilable. Further, these entitled victim types will have another story made up by that point as to why they are still being victimised by you.

Sooner you cut the cord, deal with the inevitable fallout and financial grueling you are in for the better, because that's one day sooner that you'll finally be rid of her when the kids reach maturity.

She'll no doubt have found another sponsor to leech off by then and you've a chance to find happiness with someone who is your equal who stands on their own two feet.

I don't expect you to follow through though, - she'll change her mind over the next few weeks, extract more promises, better terms, and more apologies from you, then carry on until next time.

You'll be delighted until next time.

Cut the cord OP. This type are toxic and your life won't improve at any stage until you're away from her.

marilynrr

A few posters are making some assumptions about your wife but I will say that my ex could have written your post and it's a common theme in break ups where men will say "everything I do is for her and the kids, I'd give her everything she wanted, I help with x and y, I might make mistakes but never on purpose" but it's not really accurate and often the 'mistakes' were not really mistakes. My friend is going through the same and her husband is saying all the same things to her and seems to genuinely believe them but for years she's been telling me different. I've heard this exact break up story many times from different people. Awful, unappreciative wife just blows up her family life and her kids lives for no good reason. The truth is that that very rarely happens.

You said in the OP that you push things under the carpet, what kind of things did you push under the carpet?

You also said you made wrong decisions and things would go wrong? What were they? and that you'd say something stupid or not treat her how she expected? What did you say and how did you treat her?

Unfortunately, your wife sounds like she's done, but it would be helpful to clarify what exactly the decisions/treatment of her etc was and that way people will be able to understand just how reasonable or unreasonable your wife is before people give advice.

HazeDoll

Some of the responses here are very unpleasant. The idea that his wife should play happy marriage because he pays the bills is like something from the 50s.

She's unhappy and obviously has been for a long time. He doesn't get it, and he's unlikely to have an epiphany any time soon. She has decided to get out.

That's all there is. Maybe she's over-reacting, maybe she's doing the right thing. The best advice anybody can give the OP is to adjust to her decision and work at making things as fair and amicable as possible.

A million years ago I was trying to explain to a chap that he never ever considered me in his plans and it was hurtful because it showed that he doesn't really care. As a concrete example I pointed out that he would often make himself a cup of tea and he never thought to make me one, whereas I usually asked if he wanted one when I was making one for myself. I had deliberately chosen a very trivial example but I tried to explain it was part of a pattern that often resulted in me standing around waiting for him while he went on interesting detours on the way to meet me, or finding out at short notice that he had made plans that meant I either had to make a big deal of standing my ground or just change my own plans. He put me in a position, multiple times every day, where I had to choose between 'difficult' about something minor or just let it slide.

He got what I was saying, admitted he hadn't noticed that my endless cups of tea weren't reciprocated. From then on he made me one (1) cup of tea every day. Absolutely nothing else changed. He diligently put tea tokens into the machine to keep me happy. I tried to explain a few times when things he did got to me but he always responded with "I had no idea that bothered you so much. It's such a small thing. You should have told me."

He was generous, very funny and affectionate, very 'steady' and ambitious and organised. He wasn't deliberately hurtful, he was never manipulative.

I went nuclear eventually, hit the roof, bawling and roaring, in the car on the way home when he had abandoned me at his parents' house and spent the day a few doors away at his childhood friend's house. I was sick to death of trying to explain things to him and hurt that he wasn't ever going to see he needed to consider me.

I absolutely guarantee you that to this day he thinks we broke up because he went to his friend's house.

Big Bag of Chips

Life is not quite so simple and black and white as people here often like to make it out to be. The comment above from someone who agreed his wife would become a stay at home mother and he would "work like a slave" on the understanding that she also did, is an awful attitude. First of all, why should 1 or both people "work like slaves". I was a stay at home parent for a number of years. We were down my wage, but we also did not have the expense of childcare for 3 young children. My husband worked his job, as he would have if I was also working.

All the things you listed off OP that you do is what being a parent is. It's not extra. Making beds, hoovering, doing dishes, taking out bins, are all things you'd be doing whether or not you were married with children. Just when you have children there's a few extra dishes to wash and a few extra beds to dress.

Communication has broken down between you and your wife. Unfortunately it happens in a lot of relationships. You are both pretty unhappy. She has voiced it. You're still denying/shocked that there's a problem. You need to be completely honest with yourself first. Maybe your marriage has a chance of survival of you two can be honest with each other. You might hear things you don't like, or don't agree with, but equally you'll probably have things to say that she won't like.

You need to talk to her and ask her is she 100% determined to end the marriage or would she be willing to try (both of you) to get back to what you once I had. You have children together. It is worth exhausting every possible attempt before deciding to walk away.

Talk to each other. And maybe a counsellor would be beneficial too.

spaceHopper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878674#Comment_120878674

The way the op as describes it, she doesn't want to try counseling, so they have nothing to lose by laying out the reality of life if they divorce. Also from their post they talked about it and both agreed that he would work hard outside the home and she would work hard inside the home. So with in reason she would look after things at home and he would be doing house hold chores because they would already be done. Like I said with in reason. It's more than a bit 1950's but it's what they agreed. I also get a sense that the op has been told they have done wrong many times and that this is part of pattern of passive aggressive behavior. I'm suggesting that the OP stands up for themselves more and that, that might make their wife think about trying to make a the relationship work. Either way she is the one who wants to end it and she will have to realize that the OP will have to live somewhere and that they have every right to be an equal part of their children's lives. So that somewhere will have to have rooms for the kids and not be a bedsit somewhere. That's going to cost a lot more money and will result in massive drop in the everybody's standard of living. Including the Children's

marilynrr

@spaceHopper

Do you think women who decide to end relationships are simpletons who don't understand that their standard of living will drop if they do? Generally at the point where a woman utters those words the thought of a reduced standard of living and the extra hardships that come with being a single mother is preferable and seems far more tolerable than the situation that they're currently in.

I remember when I split with my ex and I had hardly any money to live on for months, no break from the kids, no car etc. and my ex said to me "wow you must have really hated living with me if you'd rather like this this"....and it was true. And it's same for many other women I know, the home environment became unbearable so the reality of being a single parent and all that involves became the better option.

No one stayed when their husband/partner pointed out the 'realities of life' because they had already thought about that because they're not stupid. Some might have stayed longer due to threats etc. but none stayed due to 'reality' being pointed out to them.

What people agree doesn't make a difference. If they said "you work and I'll stay at home" that doesn't mean that if he works that she has to stay with him forever, it doesn't mean he has to stay with her forever because she was a stay at home parent. Having an agreement on who will work and who will take care of the kids and most of the chores doesn't keep a couple together, there are many other factors that come into play.

You got a sense that he's told he's wrong and that it's passive aggressive behaviour but without knowing what he did or what she's saying he did wrong then there's no way to know whether she's being passive aggressive or whether he genuinely did do stuff that was wrong. Maybe there's no bad guy.

Of course they need to discuss the practicalities if they are to break up but not coming from the perspective that she's an idiot.

notAMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880390#Comment_120880390

Make her see what she has? She is supporting 3 children and her husband's career, for pocket money. No income or freedom. Sounds horrendous.

OP, it really seems like you have your priorities off kilter. She clearly does not want you to have money as your first priority, and yet here you are saying. " My priority is to finance everything"

I don't know what additional workload you have taken on, above a standard 9-5, but as you've had these same discussions for years, and not changed, she most likely believes you just don't get it. A marriage is not a bank account.

If I were you, I would do some self-reflection, and think about those priorities, what she said in the past, and try to change your mindset. Explain that she is heard, that you understand (finally)

And (not instead, this is in addition) if there is something practical you can do, if your arguments are about cleaning or gardening for example, then get a cleaner or gardener and take the pressure off your wife to do 6 unpaid jobs.

skallywag

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120889083#Comment_120889083

'She is supporting 3 children and her husband's career, for pocket money. No income or freedom. Sounds horrendous.'

Extremely unfair and I would imagine hurtful comment to the OP, who came on here in a clearly bad way, and looking for advice. The OP states that he covers every household expense, including her own personal expenses. Where is the implication that she has 'no freedom' coming from?

lawrencesummers

Im surprised that someone working fulltime has to come home and do a good bit of housework on top of that when the other person is at home all day.

I would have automatically expected that the stay at home parent in any relationship would be looking after the day to day running of the house, cleaning, cooking and shopping especially as the kids are of an age when they are in school for a chunk of the day.

The reality here is that the OP’s wife wants something else, and that something else is very unlikely to be better in many regards if it involves a divorce (but it could be better in other areas)

Is it possible that depression is a factor? Stuck in a rut?

Has anything changed recently? Kids ages, bereavement, illness etc

Your marriage is over, unfortunately.

Record everything especially if her attitude changes and you feel arguments are brewing. You're at a massive disadvantage, legally, so solicitor up immediately.

Do not leave the house!

TheadoreT

These are very recurrent threads, the husband who can't do enough and yet it's never enough.

First of all giving up all your hobbies and friends to cater to her every whim is terrible. I'm assuming this wasn't the person she got attracted to in the first place and you indeed had more personal interests. You can't become a people pleaser to the point of becoming an entirely new person. Obviously you need to be somewhat selfless with a family, but keeping up with some of your own interests is vital for your own confidence and well being.

You have this woman on a massive pedestal and almost see yourself as inferior. That's a horrible dynamic in a relationship. If you don't believe you're equal your partner will eventually lose respect for you which it seems she has here. Relationship love isn't unconditional like what your mother would have for you, if you're acting unattractive those feelings will wain to the point where they don't want to be with you any longer.

What does she complain about most? Some men just file this under "nagging" and don't actually genuinely listen until its too late and they realise their relationship is on the brink of breakdown. There's a general lack of awareness of her perspective in your thread, you seem happier to play the woe is me card than actually critically analyse why shes clearly unhappy.

Did you still date her? People put a billion excuses for not doing it but its the single most important aspect of keeping a healthy relationship. If you're not making alone time for each other regularly how could the relationship possibly flourish? Particularly important with a stay at home wife to make them feel like they're appreciated and desired as a wife and not just a mother.

notAMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120889105#Comment_120889105

Ah come on, seriously? I work fulltime. It's just 8 hours a day. I don't expect to be waited on hand and foot by a domestic slave 24x7, with every aspect of a household managed. What a misogynistic viewpoint.

And it doesn't help the OP one bit... honestly reinforces the recurring problem his wife has.

Not surprising this is a common recurring issue in Ireland with that attitude eh!

notAMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120889094#Comment_120889094

You saw the post I replied to, right? Where this woman is an "entitled victim type"

skallywag

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120889177#Comment_120889177

Yes, I did indeed see who you replied to.

It is still the case though that the OP is going to come on and read what you said about him, i.e. 'She is supporting 3 children and her husband's career, for pocket money. No income or freedom. Sounds horrendous'.

Yes, you may be replying to someone else, but if I was the OP I would be very upset if I read this. There is nothing whatsoever in his posts to even hint at the fact she has 'no freedom' etc.

Big Bag of Chips

Im surprised that someone working fulltime has to come home and do a good bit of housework on top of that when the other person is at home all day.

This is a common attitude and completely unfair I believe. What you list OP isn't a "good bit of housework". It's housework. That every single adult in the world needs to do. Just because your wife is at home all day doesn't mean that you should do nothing in the house. If that was the case it would seem like the person working gets to clock off at home time, whereas the person at home is on call 24 hours a day. And people think that's perfectly acceptable?

People calling your wife an "entitled victim" are completely making stuff up. Nowhere does your post imply that your wife is entitled or sees herself as a victim. Loads of marriages end up unhappy, for very many reasons. It's funny really. The first response to many relationship problems on here is "it's over". "Dump him/her". And here we have a woman who has expressed the feeling that her marriage is over and people are calling her entitled and saying she doesn't know how good she has it. The mind boggles! I'm sure your wife has considered the implications of separating, at great length. Very few marriage break up come out of the blue or a split decision one day. She'll be fully aware what separating means for you, her, and your children.

I was a stay at home parent for a number of years. My marriage went through a very very difficult time and separation was a very real prospect. I realised that I had no money of my own. Zero. So I went back to work in preparation for separating. We worked through our difficulties and are still together, but people assuming a woman, a mother, who is considering separating hasn't thought it through and thought about all the implications must really think women are stupid!

You need to discuss this with your wife. Maybe separation is inevitable, and maybe it'll be for the best. But maybe this can be salvaged. 8 or 9 years ago I would have said there is no way my marriage could be salvaged, but here we still are...

Talk to her. Listen. If you do separate you'll be ok. As will your wife and children.

Wait, I just re-read this

"I dont really have any hobbies, dont go out. I have two friends that I see maybe once or twice a year. Everything I do is for my family but somehow myself and my wife get into a cycle of things going wrong, I upset her and let her down on things, not out of choice but just deciding and me making wrong decisions. We've been in a roller-coaster relationship for years with me always promising to be a better husband"

"I am being told that I'm a bad husband and sometimes bad parent. I dont know what to do. All I do is try my best, I NEVER do anything out of spite or negativity, its just how things end up going sometimes out of my control, or how things are perceived. Maybe my communication is dire, I dunno. I'm just fkin lost and so sad. She puts a pillow between us in the bed, doesnt talk to me, leaves the room if I walk in etc. Only a few weeks ago she would hold my hand, call me babe etc, roller-coaster"

You're isolated from hobbies and friends, you having to constantly "do better", being degraded as a husband and parent? I'm sorry but this really comes across as a toxic relationship and you would do better if it were to end. This marriage has completely destroyed your self worth lad.

Get a solicitor and get out. Do not be a pushover, just because you've been put into a spiral of self doubt.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120889238#Comment_120889238

100% this. ^^

Being a full time stay at home parent is a 24 hours a day, 7 days a week job. Working outside the home is a 9 to 5, 5 days a week job. Working outside the home for 40 hours a week does not absolve someone from doing their fair share in the home the other 128 hours of the week.

So often I've heard of this attitude that someone working outside the home feels they should be able to come home from work and not have to do anything in the home. It has been the ruination of many a relationship.

Not saying this is you, OP, but you need to talk to your wife. Maybe she is being unfair, maybe she is not, but you won't get anywhere until you communicate.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120889174#Comment_120889174

You jumped the gun there with your faux feminist outrage when i specifically said the “day to day running of the house, cleaning, cooking and shopping” none of which takes anything near 39 hours a week and would be a fair balance in a relationship where one works and one stays home.

As far as your accusation that its a mysoginistic viewpoint you couldnt have made a bigger fool of yourself as i purposely never mentioned gender at any stage. I would expect the person staying at home to look after the vast majority of the housework be they male, female or something in between and the person working would only need to contribute the minimum to such daily chores like cooking, cleaning and shopping. I know of both genders doing that stay at home role and don't see any difference between them because they pee standing or sitting.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120889238#Comment_120889238

I think its perfectly acceptable that one person at home all day can look after the vast majority of the cleaning, cooking and shopping, i never said all of it, i never said 24/7 but yea sure the majority of it because there is no way a 50/50 split is reasonable when one person is working and one person has hours off while the kids are in school.

So I would say depending on the kids ages, and the size of the house among other factors the person working would be doing about 25-30% of all the house work with kids doing a bit and the person ‘not working’ doing the balance.

Again to not enrage the feminists this doesnt specify any gender because i would expect a stay at home dad to do the same

daithi7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120889305#Comment_120889305

Yes, for anyone who actually properly read the OP's original, heart wrenching post, it seems pretty clear that there is quite a toxic underbelly to this relationship unfortunately. E.g.

"....We've been in a roller-coaster relationship for years with me always promising to be a better husband. Things go well for a while and then something happens, I say something stupid or don't treat her the way she expects and I lose her again for another incident and then we try recover from that.

Well, she just told me she has nothing else to give. I'm just devastated. I honestly adore and love this woman, her humor, her wit, her caring personality and I honestly find her the sexiest women out there and will do anything for her, but somehow beyond my understanding, I am being told that I'm a bad husband and sometimes bad parent. I dont know what to do. All I do is try my best...."

This woman appears to be very unhappy, she says she's nothing left to give (like what exactly?), yet it seems that it's her emotions that don't seem anyway stable (e.g. she was holding the OP's hand up to a few weeks ago). From your post, she appears highly manipulative, and does not seem to regard or care for or value her husband at all, who maintains all he has ever done is tried his best....!?

It seems to me like she's woefully unhappy, temperamentally unstable, and taking all this frustration (& more ?) out on her long suffering partner who seems to be prepared to do practically anything to appease her.

OP by all means try couple's counselling if you think she's really worth hanging on to (& giving up even more of yourself, & the remainder of your life to trying to 'please her'). But also you should immediately consult with a good solicitor, a good counsellor to help you alone, record everything said & done, don't leave the family home, work hard on preserving your relationships with your kids (they should actually be the most important people here for you now imho), and prepare for a likely nasty probable separation & divorce, and your own personal war. Sorry but that's where ye appear to be at now. Good luck!!

Ezeoul

As far as I know, no one here is qualified to start throwing around labels like "tempramentally unstable" on someone else's spouse, based on a few paragraphs of text.

Never forget there are three sides to every story - his, hers and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. We're only getting one side of it here.

Maybe the OP's wife does have genuine grounds to be unhappy. Like someone posted above, women are not stupid, and nobody implodes their whole life and their marriage on a whim.

But telling the OP he should more or less dismiss her unhappiness, and that she should just be grateful to him for being the great provider, is not going to solve anything for him.

Quite the opposite.

daithi7

" ...Like someone posted above, women are not stupid, and nobody implodes their whole life and their marriage on a whim...."

Are you qualified yourself to say this?

Maybe some people are indeed 'stupid', and do implode their marriage cos they're emotionally unstable (& so apparently on a whim) ?

And that some of these people are women!? (Jeez imagine hey!?...)

Did you not perhaps consider this possibility at all based on the OP's fairly comprehensive original post ? In it, where he has detailed very inconsistent, emotionally abusive behaviours from his wife, and a litany of apparent emotional blackmail, abuse and esteem undermining comments & behaviours over a very considerable amount of time.

Yes, some women (& men also of course) clearly implode their lives & marriages because their emotions get the better of them.

After all:

'There's no accounting for folk!'

skallywag

I believe that the housework aspect, which some posters insist on pushing, has definitely taken this thread off on a distracting tangent. The OP only mentioned two sentences concerning this, i.e. the following:

She mainly does everything in the home. I try help out as much as I can, the dishes, hoovering, making beds, taking care of kids, bins etc.

I interpret this as meaning that while his wife is a stay at home wife, who makes a lot of effort around the house, he is not one of these chaps who does absolutely nothing, but does in fact make an effort to contribute.

At no point does the OP mention that his wife has any issue with him not pulling his weight, or that the source of her dismay is in anyway linked to him not doing certain chores, or taking general responsibility within the family home.

I do not know why this conclusion is being drawn by some, as there is nothing at all in the OP to allude to this.

For me, the crux of the issue lies is within the following comments from the OP:

I upset her and let her down on things, not out of choice but just deciding and me making wrong decisions. We've been in a roller-coaster relationship for years with me always promising to be a better husband. Things go well for a while and then something happens, I say something stupid or don't treat her the way she expects and I lose her again for another incident and then we try recover from that.

This sounds to me to be nothing at all do to with shared participation within the home, etc.

XsApollo

I don’t have advice on how to fix the relationship, but I will say this.

if she wants out then let her out,

always remember that she is the one that wants out, you seem like you don’t.

if ye have a spare room, then suggest she moves into it, why should you leave your bed because she doesn’t want to be there anymore. If she doesn’t want that then you move into it. If it means having a younger child sleep with her then do it.

don’t argue or cause problems.

ignore her and don’t make chit chat, only speak about responsibility, minding the kids and whatever else, if ye start arguing , remove yourself from the situation, go upstairs and put on headphones or something.

try and make an agreement on set days one of ye needs to be in the house, at weekends for instance, there is no need for both of ye there, if ye aren’t a couple.

the days you are free go away and do something, if you have nothing to do, then go and have a nice meal in a hotel and get a room for the night, or go on a date, you don’t need tell her what you are doing, it’s not really her business anymore.

on the weekends you have the kids, then take them off for a drive for the day, or go to the cinema or something.

its not an easy thing, I’ve been there myself, don’t get into the mindset that you have to leave, you are perfectly entitled to stay in your home.

try and just keep away, if you can turn the spare room into a place where you can relax then do, TV, PlayStation or whatever when you have a couple of hours to yourself.

you can move on without upheaving your life.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120889960#Comment_120889960

I'm not diagnosing anyone as "emotionally abusive" or "temprementally unstable". Nor am I here to get into a discussion with you about it.

I'm here to advise the OP.

It sounds to me like his wife has been trying to communicate with him for some time, but he hasn't really been hearing what she is trying to communicate to him, or he does, but slips back into old habits. Maybe she is being unreasonable. Maybe she is not. That is for the OP to figure out for himself. We don't know the specifics, nor does he need to divulge them here.

So my advice to him is to take any "advice" which jumps to the immediate conclusion that he has no fault here while slapping derogatory labels on his wife, with extreme caution.

The other piece of advice I would offer to him is to try and raise the option of marriage counselling again.

notAMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120889689#Comment_120889689

I've been in both situations, where my husband was the breadwinner, and I stayed at home, and now it's the other way around, because it didn't work the other way, mainly due unaligned expectations on what what work staying at home with children is. We had to change it.

I am now the breadwinner in my family, my husband is the stay at home parent. He looks after the children all day, and manages some school bits etc, that is his "job". I wouldn't dream of expecting him to cook, shop, clean, run the bills, arrange social calendar etc all on his own, or anywhere near the majority of it on TOP of that. We are grown ups, share finances (ALL pooled accounts, my wage is his wage), use a joint calendar and communicate if either of us is under pressure. We are a team, a marriage. I do not take his efforts for granted , or expect anything because of me getting a wage, and him not. He supports me in my career, by looking after our children, not the other way around. My job is like holiday compared to keeping small children safe and alive. The chores are all of our responsibilities, including the children. And I would not make financial decisions alone, there is a large hint the OP has done this a few times. (Made wrong decisions... like what, a surprise car replacement?)

When the roles are reversed, and sadly demonstrated repeatedly in this thread, is that many Irish men expect their wives should just shut up and to be super-grateful if their husband earns a wage, and puts out a bin once a week, and makes decisions that affect them all without discussion, while the wives have all the "care-giving" responsibilities including the majority of chores and housekeeping. This is massively unbalanced, and yes, utterly misogynistic. These days, women don't put up with it because they don't have to. It's not emotional instability (ugh, lazy trope), when they want to get out of the that situation, it's self-preservation.

How about you come back to me when you've actually been the SAHP without an income yourself, rather than the naïve theoretical conjecture?

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120890230#Comment_120890230

If somebody generalised about women the way you are generalising about men there would be uproar.

skallywag

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120890230#Comment_120890230

 And I would not make financial decisions alone, there is a large hint the OP has done this a few times.

Where are you seeing this is what the OP wrote?

Big Bag of Chips

there is no way a 50/50 split is reasonable when one person is working and one person has hours off while the kids are in school.

There is nothing to suggest from the OP that he does 50% of the household jobs.

Regardless of all the above OP, I think housework is a distraction here. Your wife is not ending your marriage because of housework. There will be a lot more going on for her. And if you're honest with yourself there will be a lot you are unhappy about too. It is pretty much impossible for one person to be blissfully happy in a marriage while the other person is completely miserable and looking to get out. The only appropriate advice people can offer is to try and discuss it with her. Whether or not that discussion leads to you both separating, or leads to you both deciding that you have something worth saving will be down to you both.

1 person is very very rarely the sole cause of a marriage breakdown. It is very unlikely to be 100% your wife's fault. It is equally very unlikely to be completely your fault. You both have played a part in getting to where you are today. By your actions, and your reactions. It is very common in marriages, with small children, for people to drift apart, for communication to go awry. The focus tends to shift to the children, to looking after them, feeding them, getting them to where they need to be etc. Very easily a couple can forget that they are a couple, a unit, a team in the middle of all that. Very easy to get exhausted and grow resentful of each other, each thinking the other one has it easier.

If your marriage has any hope of surviving you need to be able to sit down and talk through everything. Everything. One person on their own can't save a broken marriage. If your wife wants out and refuses to talk, there's little or nothing you can do except put plans in place to split as amicably as possible. Mediation will be advised. The Family Mediation Service is a free service. I'm sure there's a waiting list. But if your wife is determined it would be very very beneficial to you both to go to mediation.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth-family-relationships/separation-and-divorce/family-mediation-separating-couples/

marilynrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120889960#Comment_120889960

The original post is not comprehensive in any way.

We don't know what the issues were that upset her, what the 'wrong decisions' were, what treatment she didn't like so it's literally impossible to tell what's going on, we just know that it's toxic and it all seems to have come to a head for the wife.

Is the wife responding in a way that any reasonable woman would likely to respond if those things were going on? Or does she fly off the handle over tiny things? It's impossible to tell because the original post is far from comprehensive. There is no way to know from what's been said if she's emotionally abusive or not.

What the OP has said about himself in the post could be a huge red herring because in my experience most men say the exact same thing when their wife wants to split up and a lot of the time it's misrepresenting the truth and minimising serious issues.

The posts by MrSoundie and Str8outtaWuhan are very wise.

1. Turn on your location on your phone. Keep it on permanently until you're finished with the legal issues. This record will be exceedingly important in refuting her false allegations when they come. Assume they will come. Prepare for the worst.

2. Under 'Timeline' in location you can go back years and use it to help jog your memory when you start writing your daily diary. Record her in that diary and put keywords - e.g. anger, abuse, money, control, etc - next to each event you log. That way you do a simple ctrl, f and type into the pop-up box and build your legal case with examples of the relevant issue.

3. Start talking to somebody now about what's happening. You need that perspective, that sounding board. When the Section 47 (best interests of the child report) comes along, the assessor will talk with all mental health professionals and counsellors. If your wife is taking medication for anxiety, depression, etc take notes as you can be sure she'll throw everything at you in order to keep the family home and kids for herself. Don't underestimate her.

4. More immediately, I would suggest you do two things.

1. If in Dublin, attend the next support group meeting for people heading towards divorce ("separation" is mostly redundant since 2019, when the law was changed to allow one to divorce after 2 years). There are two I can find, and meeting others will be a baptism of fire when you learn from their experiences and knowledge of the legal process:

Stillorgan, this coming Saturday morning at 10:30pm: https://meetu.ps/e/MkWvG/8JRYq/i

Phibsboro, next Monday at 7pm (last meeting until September):  https://meetu.ps/e/Ml7YW/8JRYq/i

2. Get serious legal advice from a serious family law specialist. Pay the money, email your questions the night before and write down the answers. People in the support groups can help you with what sort of questions you should be asking - e.g. pensions, shared parenting, selling the family home, etc.

Adopt the attitude that anything you do is not personal but just business. You have to protect yourself and your kids. I doubt this is a sudden thing-she chould have given some sort or warning that something untoward was happening from her POV.

Good luck.

marilynrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120892262#Comment_120892262

It's not the first time I've seen these extremely paranoid posts making out that women who want to divorce are likely to be evil, vindictive and mental and go around making all sorts of accusations, encouraging note taking about her mental health and so on 🧐

Absolutely no reason to assume this woman is any way like that or to freak him out encouraging him to become a paranoid wreck

Most divorces/child custody arrangements do not end up that way at all. Encouraging that kind of paranoia is far more likely to cause problems than to actually prevent them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120892322#Comment_120892322

OP ignore this. Prepare for the worst.

Everything will probably go smoothly but, if they don't, they can and will go bad for you very quickly.

You'll never recover momentum for that first unfounded and undefended accusation.

No one is telling you to be an ass or to become needlessly vindictive just most guys have 1st or close second hand knowledge of how quickly family law turns on them.

There is a very good chance that you end up out of the family home, paying the rent/mortgage, while scrambling for somewhere.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120892210#Comment_120892210

OP it's up to you to look after yourself. Only you know the truth of your post and people should be giving advice on your post and not invented scenarios they wish to see, in the post. You could be selling us a crock of sh1t but my assuming that is not the point of this forum, from what I can see. We should advise based on information presented

You'll, repeatedly, get posters saying that you're lying or making omissions, and constantly trying to "both sides".

You're the one here calling for help, not your wife, but you'll get people who take it on themselves to, for reasons only they know, twist your words or invent their own narrative.

Your isolation from friends and hobbies alone is a warning sign, for me, as is your mentioning of verbal degrading. Your marriage is over and it really looks like you're isolated with no one to turn to.

That is why you need a solicitor. Support group is good and they'll have gone through the negatives but just be aware that they can be overly cynical and jaded from this.

Off topic rant removed and warning applied

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120892322#Comment_120892322

Any plenty of other responses on this forum recommend posters to apply for barring and safety orders - it's part of the playbook from many solicitors and you can nearly guarantee will be advised by the OP's wife's friends.

She's already said that she doesn't love him, so there's very little moral dilemma, and a potentially huge financial incentive for her if he is forced from the family home.

The OP would be unbelievably naïve to assume that a woman who doesn't love him wouldn't do everything in her power to keep a roof over her own head.

Ezeoul

She says she doesn't love him. Now.

And while that must have been incredibly painful to hear, I don't think the OP should give up all hope that their marriage is unsalvageable. (And not for the cynical reasons of finances only).

I think everyone here realises that relationships take a lot of work, and though she may feel like this towards him now, its quite possible her feelings for her husband are just being buried and overwhelmed by whatever other problems have been going on between them. Look at the examples posted here by other people who have felt their marriages were over or close to over, but came back from the brink of separation and are still together years later.

This is why the OP should not just give up and throw in the towel immediately. He says he still loves her very much. Marriages and relationships go through good and bad times. He needs to be sure, and she needs to be sure, that she truly doesn't love him anymore. This is why the OP should really insist on at least giving marriage counselling a decent attempt. I get the impression from the original post that they have never tried counselling before, despite having problems for a long time. It might be the making of them.

If she doesn't want to try, and won't consider counselling, then the OP should absolutely follow the advice to remain as amicable as possible, while also protecting himself, and his rights to his children.

daithi7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120892210#Comment_120892210

There's more than enough in the original post to make a fair judgement on both the marriage & the OP's spouse imho.

The up & down nature of their relationship for many years, the emotional blackmail, the giving up of his friends & past times, the constant appeasement to please her that is described in their relationship dynamic, the fact she has stated she doesn't love him anymore yet was holding his hand a few weeks back (like hello!?), and worst the derogatory comments madeby her about him as a husband and father, assumedly for some time too.

For anyone who will take the OP at his word (and I do), these are all massive red flags about her relationship with him, but also about her emotional stability, her manipulative and distancing behaviours, etc, etc. It's pretty obvious imho, it's all in the original post.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120893641#Comment_120893641

Again, you're making and awful lot of assumptions and coming to an awful lot of conclusions based on very little information, and (I suspect) you're own internalised bias.

I don't doubt the OPs word. But nowhere does the OP say in his opening post that reducing contact with his friends (he didn't give them up, he still sees them, albeit infrequently) was at the behest of his wife. Or that she has manipulated him into anything. That is what you're choosing to see.

Also, you are choosing to interpret her attempts at communicating her unhappiness to her husband as "emotional blackmail".

He admits to letting her down at times, and making bad decisions, yet you are completely brushing over his part in all of this. He also says:

All I do is try my best, I NEVER do anything out of spite or negativity, its just how things end up going sometimes out of my control, or how things are perceived.

So what makes you think he has never said anything derogatory to his wife? This sentence would hint otherwise.

Ultimately, what do you think she should do if she is unhappy - just shut up and coast along and not say anything to him, as long as he keeps bringing home the bacon?

Because it certainly seems that is exactly what you expect her to do. And worse, you expect her to stay with him and be grateful, for that reason too.

Big Bag of Chips

the fact she has stated she doesn't love him anymore yet was holding his hand a few weeks back (like hello!?), 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, and I'd imagine a very common occurrence in relationships that are in trouble. How often do we hear of exes ending up in bed together again? I can personally speak from experience of being in a marriage that was on its very last legs. Knowing that my feelings for my husband had completely changed. Feeling that I didn't want to continue in a marriage with him, that I didn't love him. That I wanted out, and quick. And yet at the same time wanting to hug him. Wanting him to hug me and reassure me that we'd be ok. That it'd work out. I didn't love him, but I did care about him. We were a long time together. We had 4 children together. Even if/when we broke up we were still going to be very much connected. Things were bad, but our relationship had also been very very good too. And even in a marriage breakdown where it's fir the best, feelings are still involved. And feelings are complicated.

Breaking up a marriage isn't as straightforward and black and white as some people here seem to believe.

OP, please try talk to your wife. Please. You mentioned you are overwhelmed. Don't for a second think she isn't and please take advice from this thread that is relevant to you. There is a lot of opinion from a lot of people here. Some with zero experience of marriage or relationships. Some with limited experience. Do not take relationship advice from people whose only relationship experience seems to come from watching Nickelodeon shows. We always advise people to take from threads what is relevant to them and ignore what's not. The goal here is to try communicate with your wife. Whether that is with a view to recovering your relationship or separating amicably.

Sunny Disposition

If she wants the marriage to end, that's it, I don't see why you would argue with her, she knows you pretty well, if she doesn't want to be with you then you've to take that on the chin, hard as it is.

I'd advise you to talk to a lawyer and a counsellor. I'd imagine you are in very serious distress and would need some help, while it's also important you don't make foolish decisions around things like custody and the house ye live in.

TBH it sounds quite miserable having so few friends and interests, it would seem to be quite hard for anyone to be content in that position. Were you generally happy over the years?