Was arrested for shop lifting

yourdeadwright

Hey runningbiddy,

I don't want to alarm or offend you but have you had any cognitive issues of late,

My own father got accused of ship lifting & would never dream of doing it & it all seemed very strange , but when we heard the story we notice there was few things that on there own looked like nothing but when all added up left us wondering if there was something else at play.,

On further investigations it was determined he was in the very early stages of dementia,

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120876180#Comment_120876180

Not until she’s convinced.

It’s not black and white, like for example speeding, where you either were going over the limit, or you weren’t.

Honest mistake is a valid defence to a shoplifting charge, but in this case there hasn’t been a charge brought, so as of now you cannot claim the OP is a shoplifter.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120876243#Comment_120876243

She has admitted it. She will receive an adult caution.

I don't have to claim she is, she admitted it!

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120876264#Comment_120876264

You’re wrong.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120876268#Comment_120876268

How?

Witcher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120876243#Comment_120876243

The OP must admit the offence to be eligible for the caution. She has consented to entering the Adult Caution scheme otherwise she would have been charged there and then.

By accepting the caution you are accepting you're guilty.

runningbuddy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120876233#Comment_120876233

Assuming your Dad is elderly - how was he treated? Surely the store didn't call the Gardai?

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120876337#Comment_120876337

The morality here is amazing.

Being old or sick does nor excuse you of any crime.

It may mean that the penalty is less - but if uou do the action you're still a theif / sexabuser/whatever.

If you do something that looks criminal in a public place, expect the guards to be called.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120876337#Comment_120876337

He was 68 at the time ,

No they didn't call the Gardai they just confronted him about it & he paid, but its local shop & the cashier let a family member know what happened,

It was very very very early in the dementia ,he'd simply forget he had a couple of items he didn't ay for

CramCycle

It's happened to me before (puncture repair kit in trolley), I see it every week in Aldi, parents marching their kids back in who were holding something as they went out.

Happened a co worker who drove off from a petrol station, she rang and came back 40 minutes later.

The truth is, the caution is taken, it isn't a big deal, don't do it again. Don't tell your friends or co workers, no good will come of it. You seem anxious enough about it talking to strangers, people you know who will make jokes about it in the future are not going to improve things. Innocent or not, there were items under bags in your trolley, the security guard was doing a job, and it is easy to see why your perfectly reasonable reason might not be believable to someone who sees it all the time. Don't take insult, from an objective point of view, it is up to a judge to decide if it was intentional or not, and why have the stress of waiting to find out when you are let off with a glorified warning, nothing else.

Don't worry about whether you have or have not done it in the past, just don't do it again in the future. Put your bags on the hooks rather than in the trolley. That used to be the training video for Tesco to look out for shoplifters was people with the bags in their trolley as they go around.

Best of luck in the future but there is nothing else to say here, just relax, take a breath and realise that it's done and it's not a big deal.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120876579#Comment_120876579

I understand what your saying but at the same time if someone with early onset dementia goes into a shop & forgets to pay they will never be charged,They literally think they have paid for the item

The person has a lot more to worry abut than leaving with an unpaid loaf of bread ,

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878528#Comment_120878528

Early onset dementia may not be diagnosed at that time and can be very difficult for an ordinary person to spot, and in some cases even family members don’t spot it or are very much in denial - a person may present as having all mental faculties in place- you would hope their family would then rally around and support this person in the event of a prosecution and get a medical assessment completed in advance- the security guard, and the shop manager, depending on the sort of people they are, how community based the shop is and how well they know the person or the persons family, may see the situation for what it is, and contact the family vs the guards- but that’s a lot of “ifs”.

If the guards are called, they may also sense something over and above a standard theft but again, given this person is only early 50s, dementia wouldn’t be the first thought tbh.

runningbuddy

Hi folks. The Inspector still hasn't called me. Does it look really desperate if I call the station?? The Sergeant said the Inspector would call me within 2 or 3 days and that was almost a week ago 😕

Honorable

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120871907#Comment_120871907

If one is arrested they have to be told they are and why. A garda cannot arrest someone by saying "accompany me to the station "

You don't have to accompany a security person or anyone making a citizen's arrest unless they say they are making a citizen's arrest and why. To make the arrest without telling the person the security person would be themselves committing an offence.

A lot security people are bullies, like playing garda and take advantage of people's lack of knowledge. If a security person triedto detain me I would not stay unless they said I was arrested and why.

Edit typos

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120892773#Comment_120892773

I'm well aware of what a Garda has to do to affect an arrest. Security guard should also be aware of what they can do, which is the same as any citizen in the state.

Benmann

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120893486#Comment_120893486

you said above "It [citizen's arrest] is used every day. Just because they don't say the words, that is what they are doing." If they don't say the words it is not a legitimate arrest. The person who makes the arrest has to tell the person they are being arrested and why.

Honorable

OP you could make a data protection request to the shop to see if they have any record of you shoplifting previously.

Honorable

I once got petrol and then realised I had no money or wallet on me

I told them and said I would leave my car at the petrol station and taxi home for the money. But they let me drive home. I was back in half an hour. They probably knew me from going in and it was a local pump.

runningbuddy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120893684#Comment_120893684

Hi there, I might do in due course but I am so stressed by all of this at the minute that I am just not able. I would assume if they knew someone was constantly shoplifting, they would do something about it?? Either speak to that person and make them aware that they know or bar them completely??

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120893538#Comment_120893538

Really?

Can you link the legislation that states that?

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120893684#Comment_120893684

Why on earth would she go back and rattle their cages again?

If she hasn't heard from the gardai about the caution yet, it's increasingly likely she won't. Going full Karen on it will likely just prompt the shop to ask the gardai where they're at with the prosecution.

Sleeping dogs etc.

runningbuddy

Hi folks. Just got post. Letter from Inspector requesting Interview in 2 weeks in relation to the Adult Caution. A lot of jargon but when I spoke to Sergeant he said this process with Inspector will take 5 minutes and is basically a chat. The formality of letter is scaring me I guess

MacDanger

Not directly related to the Ops case but I worked for a contract security firm in a Dublin city-centre based shop (clothes plus food) in the early noughties; generally we had a person on each of the 3 doors who would flag anyone suspicious-looking and 1 person on CCTV who would track that person around the shop for as long as required (you might decide pretty early on that there was nothing suspicious about them). The CCTV person would also randomly search for anyone looking furtive (easy enough to spot at times). Assuming the OP made a genuine mistake, it's actually quite odd that they spotted you as it's very hard to pick up something like that doing the type of observation we used.

As mentioned above, we were very wary of making wrongful accusation so if we spotted someone taking something, we'd have to follow very closely on CCTV to see that they didn't put it back while out of sight; if we lost track of them, we would just eyeball them on the way out and let them walk. A wrongful detention was estimated to cost 10k at the time.

Obviously if this is mostly a food supermarket, the level of security may be different but I don't think we would have ever had a situation where we would have had a person who was known to shoplift but we had never pulled them in so on the one hand, I'd be inclined to say that the allegation of the OP being a "known shoplifter" is just bluff; on the other hand, it's quite hard to catch the incident as described so there may be some truth in it and they were actually watching you specifically on CCTV.

runningbuddy

Thanks macdanger. The time I was there, it was almost closing so it was pretty empty. The security guard was following me around. I assumed it was to try to rush the last few stragglers out so I didn't pay much attention. This particular store is where I shop at least 4 times a week and shoplifting is a massive issue there. Constantly Gardai and a lot of security guards.....

thegetawaycar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120893964#Comment_120893964

I did the same, went in and explained, they asked to keep my phone while I went home to get my wallet.

Honorable

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120894014#Comment_120894014

It's up to you. I just thought you were bothered by the comment. It could be they mixed you up with someone else.