When did weight training become popular in Ireland?

micke

I was just wondering when did weight training gain popularity in Ireland. Is it over the past twenty or thirty years with the of proliferation of gyms around the country and dumbells/weight sets available in sport shops etc. I get the impression that it is a relatively recent phenomenon with very few gyms pre-90s.

Black Sheep

In the late 1990s I think I only encountered organised weight training among people coming from rugby schools or abroad. There probably was a bit of a holdover of the 80s bodybuilding fad, there were people with Argos weights sets in their houses, and the odd guy in your area who was known to be into it, but generally lifting in an educated way, or with access to decent equipment, was uncommon. There must have been exceptions, like the Hercules Club, but at this time if you went into a commercial gym a platform, rack and olympic barbell would have been rare.

Then I think in the mid to late 00s there was a rise in general interest in weight training, beginning to build among active people. Around this time CrossFit was a trend, and if you look back on boards.ie for the era, there were a lot of workshops and introductory classes being organised and attended by boardsies.

The wider, general population followed this trend, but I feel like it's still only in maybe the last 15 years where the general population can really be said to have gotten into lifting, in a semi-coherent way. This is partly reflected in how gym design has changed - few gyms now would open without a bay of squat racks and platforms.

The degree to which lifting has become part of youth culture, among boys at least, is really interesting, it's universal among all classes.

billyhead

Social Media also has a lot to do with it. Peer pressure to look good amongst young people. The gym is the new pub. All these wannabe instagrammers etc. Watching too much of that Love Island muck on TV.

ted1

Surprisingly The Jersey shore tv program was won of the key influences

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120866828#Comment_120866828

The carry on of taking your photo in front of the mirror and sticking it online would make you cringe.

brokenbad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120866879#Comment_120866879

It's not just teens and twentysomethings who do the photo in front of the mirror pose either - people in their 40's, 50's and even 60's do it too!

Mocking is catching!

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120866960#Comment_120866960

yeah it looks ridiculous

Black Sheep

Overall, the cultural shift towards kids being really into gym attendance, and lifting in particular, is a really positive thing, though.

I get the joking about the gym selfies, but overall, there's little downside to this.

It's fair to say there is increased 'social pressure' on young people, although I'd argue that has more to do with the broader phenomenon of 24/7 social media than gym culture by itself. For perspective, it's still only a vanishingly small minority who actually have body dysphoria related to their training. I'm also mindful that, if anything, we're still not doing enough to tackle rising obesity rates. Frankly there's a section of Irish society we should be trying to entice into becoming more active, and lifting is part of that.

The other population segment who are gradually getting their heads around lifting, and it's really important, are those in the older age bracket. Hugely beneficial if people can build and maintain muscle mass into their old age. Their quality of life is exponentially better, and the pursuits of decades past (brisk walking, golf, going to the pub) just don't serve that goal. Particularly important for females, with a view to addressing bone denisty.

HerrKuehn

I have noticed a lot of the younger guys I work with are interested in the "aesthetics" of it. They seem to have no interest in cardio training at all, only an interest in developing muscles. I regard it as "conspicuous fitness", although I am not sure if you can be regarded as "fit" if you can't run for the bus. Weight lifting was definitely a thing in the 90's as I did a fair bit of it as a teenager myself and it was not particularly unusual among my group of friends. I think nowadays it is more driven by social media rather than a desire to be healthy as such, it is about appearance.

Black Sheep

Happily, "just" lifting leads to improvements in health markers across the board- including heart health. Even if the motivation is vanity, it doesn't really matter.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867659#Comment_120867659

Well, it is better than nothing of course. But it would be better if there was more of a focus on health IMO, including mental health. Any sort of training should have the side effect of improving the way you look, but it shouldn't be the main focus. I think you just have to look at the popularity of various PEDs with people who are not involved with professional sport to see that it isn't entirely harmless. A lot of this is driven by social media influencers with totally unrealistic body types.

billyhead

Having a defined strong physique gives an aura of masculinity amongst young male. It's pure vanity to try and attract the opposite sex. Same goes for female. There's huge pressure to look fit and healthy. A lot of those magazine pictures etc. which show the perfect body are photoshopped and largely unattainable. It's causing huge mental problems aswell. I feel sorry for teenagers these days with the amount of peer pressure. Also it was mentioned that the focus on weights and building muscles hinders cardio fitness. People are obviously much better of with a mix of both.

Black Sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867690#Comment_120867690

It's not just better than nothing, resistance training is probably one of the single most beneficial activities a person of any age can take up. The health benefits are well documented- improvements in bone density, muscle mass, weight control, mood, and overall cognitive benefits.

PED usage remains a tiny minority among people who lift, not sure what else to say about that. PED use ultimately rarely even leads to the death of the user, or harm to another. I have never used them but in terms of context they're something of a tabloid boogeyman irrelevant to the issue at hand.

But I'd be interested to know what you consider training for "health"? More of a cardio focus, maybe. What do you think the benefits are? How much resistance training do you think is healthy?

Black Sheep

The idea of what is "too much weights" needs a bit of quantifying.

If someone "only" lifts 3 days week consistently, and did no other training, I'd say the evidence suggests their heart health, weight and overall health is likely to be very good based off that.

It would be more beneficial, in fact, than if they, for example, did only steady-state cardio three times a week consistently.

But it's a moot point as the hypothetical person doing "too many weights" probably is already incorporating some element of conditioning or cardio if their goals are aligned- if they want to play sport, want to have field fitness, want to burn exta calories or maybe just like the feeling of cardio.

I also find it surprising people are negative about people lifting to be more attractive to the opposite sex. Why would that be a concern, or anyone else's business? What are the actual serious harms arising?

If nothing else, people in their teens, 20s and 30s just don't need to consciously have the same health orientated motivation as older populations. They're entitled to just want to push themselves, look good and enjoy their training.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120868335#Comment_120868335

Well training for health, from my point of view, would be focusing on cardio as well as some form of strength training (which could be weights, but might also be something like calisthenics). When I was young, in my teens, I did a fair bit of weights. When I was in my 20's I was training Muay Thai a lot, as well as running and some weights. Now in my 40's it is running as well as body weight type exercises like chin ups, push ups, core work etc, with a small amount of weights.

I watch some of the fitness youtubers, like Derrick on "More plates more dates", fairly bemused by what people are doing and considering "healthy". It seems to be a bit of a problem, particularly the types of physiques that people see fitness influencers having that are supposedly "Natty".

Cill94

It can't be overstated what an impact CrossFit had on bringing lifting into the mainstream in Ireland. It was the first type of barbell training I was exposed to.

As for the concerns about 'de yooth' lifting for the wrong reasons: I would very much side with Black Sheep on this being a case of missing the forest for the trees.

While I definitely acknowledge that we've all see kids in the gym who seem to be wrapped up in PEDs, body dysmorphia etc - we have to remember that they are actually a small % of the teen population. This issue pales in comparison to the obesity epidemic and the fact that the average teen does less physical activity than ever. I worked in a school for a few years, and the PE department had seen a staggering drop in general physical preparedness with each generation. I trained many 12 year olds who couldn't do a bodyweight squat. These people are going to absolutely devastate the health system when they're adults.

micke

Interesting answers to the question, there is a much greater emphasis on personal image over the past 25 years or so. People were a lot more physically active and leaner prior to the 90s.

Alf Veedersane

I only found out today that you can gauge the entirety of someone's motivation for training just by looking at them.

Patsy167

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120870342#Comment_120870342

I'm intrigued - care to expand?

Cill94

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120873810#Comment_120873810

I would imagine he’s referring tongue in cheek to the negative assumptions about teenagers in this thread.

Stone Deaf 4evr

personally, I would have loved to have had the available resources that I discovered in my mid 30's (crossfit) available when I was in my mid teens in 90's ireland. I wasnt into team sports, or indeed solo sports, I was more interested in videogames and drinking (which, I still am but life and family developments has naturally pared this back).

I joined CF 7 years ago as I was obese, and with the assistance of a great trainer, I discovered that olympic lifting in a group setting was an amazing experience, and you constantly gave that extra 10% when you were in a supportive environment.

fast forward to now, and while I dont do CF anymore since covid, I setup my own home gym, and tend to do weights more to maintain fitness for activities I like doing (mountain biking) ,and to try and make sure I'm able to be the dad my kids deserve rather than to lose weight.

I personally think its amazing to see so many of the younger generation investing in their fitness, and I certainly dont miss the days of groups of teens hanging around town smoking (although I wouldnt mind seeing vaping vanish in the same fashion, but thats a discussion for another day).

Patsy167

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120875239#Comment_120875239

my bad - I read the post in isolation. All makes sense now after reading the last page.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867468#Comment_120867468

Some are motivated by building muscle, others by improving cardio, other by improving skills. Neither superior or inferior to the other. as much as somebody lacks an element of fitness if they can't run for the bus, so too does the person who can't carry the shopping in from the car.

And "aesthetics" is neither new or isolated to young guys. Aesthetics has always been a driver for the majority of people taking up some sort of fitness routine or healthy eating plan. That should be really apparent. If anything, it's was/is a bigger factor for women compared to men. To the extent that it for a long time took priority to he detriment of health.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867690#Comment_120867690

Why shouldn't appearance be the main focus? As above, that's been the main driver since fitness was popularised for the general population. If you focus is appearance, you'll improve health too (and vice versa). Personally I find training has significant mental health benefits.

I'm not sure exactly which PEDs you are referring to. There's a range of use cases right? But I don't think that are required or the norm.

Alf Veedersane

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120875239#Comment_120875239

Yep.

Alf Veedersane

Whatever the motivation for weight training, who cares? People going to the gym and trying to get themselves in better shape is a good thing.

And lets not kid ourselves that there isn't even a scintilla of wanting to look better in why we go.

It just seems a little off to be finding fault with why people go to the gym when people not going to the gym or engaging in any form of physical exertion is a much bigger problem.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120877779#Comment_120877779

I guarantee every person fault finding with “young people’s” gym culture engages in the exact same in their [sport of choice].

Varvitski

I began weightlifting back in the 60s. My brother and I went to the Apollo club in Dublin, located behind the Swan pub. It's long gone. The gym was all power lifting, and the few others existing back then were more geared to olympic lifting. There were no frills. No music. No carpets. Just raw endeavour in woolie tracksuits, old fashioned leotards, belts and jocks. The barbells were bent with clanging weights. The little open fire didn't help your hands from freezing on the first grasp on the cold steel in the winter months. I wouldn’t change it for anything.

3DataModem

Any trend towards people wanting to look conspicuously fit is a good thing. Yes yes, we'd all prefer people focused on cardio and nutrition etc, but it's a welcome trend overall. I'm not a fan of lifting or lifting-culture (whatever that is) but lifting weights is generally (and objectively) good for the human body in a variety of ways. Nothing wrong with a bit of peer pressure and copycat behaviour sometimes.

Cill94

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120877779#Comment_120877779

Yeah, I don't believe anyone who claims to not care about the aesthetic benefits of training. It's holier than thou BS.

So you don't upload photos of yourself with your top off? Bravo. I'd still bet my left leg that you check yourself out in the mirror plenty when you know nobody is watching. The only difference is the kid taking a photo of himself has the confidence to not care what others think.

Irish_wolf

Honestly, I'd say the influx of foreign workers, especially from central and eastern Europe, in the late 90s/early 00s probably popularised it in the Irish psyche. Lads who would have considered themselves big hard-men suddenly felt quite small compared to the new kids on the block. I know I first went to the gym in the early 2000s and I'd say half the clientele were Polish. Not the same anymore. Nothing to do with social media at the time as we weren't really on those but entirely to do with getting stronger and looking better. Nowadays most of my friend group would be doing some kind of gym work, even if it's Pilates or bouldering rather than lifting. The health benefits (physical and mental) are well known at this stage and for sure it's great for your overall confidence. Keep the trend going I say. Surely there's a net positive for society via gym based peer pressure over drink/drug based peer pressure even if a few people get caught up in the pursuit.

Eoinbmw

My first "weight training" began at home in the early 90s as a spotty teen inspired by Stallone, Arnie and van dam!

We used to have the York cement filled sets from argos!

It was totally Bodybuilding related motivation!

The first Gyms I remember in Limerick were powerlifiting and Bodybuilding mostly occupied by Limericks bouncers!

Black Sheep

I had the Argos York spinlock collar dumbells and barbell as well, and a really rickety York bench.

The aesthetics of the 80s action movies definitely were aspirational for kids in the 80s and 90s - boys obviously, not the girls ;) And they were heavily influenced by golden age bodybuilding. Then there was a lot of analysis in the media in the late 90s that it shifted to less bulky ideal male body types, Brad Pitt and so on... But when I look at modern culture it seems to me that being properly 'jacked' is definitely aspirational again.

I think if Arnold in Commando and Predator was iconic in the 80s and early 90s, when I think about really influential male actor physiques in the past few years the things that jump out at me are Daniel Craig in Casino Royale, and to a greater extent, Tom Hardy in Warrior. Tom Hardy's traps in that movie should have got their own credits, they were talked about so much.

Eoinbmw

Chris Hemsworth as Thor and Henry Cavil as Superman seemed to have drawn a lot of attention too and of Course wwe's Cena and the Rock.

The Davestator

Ben Dunne was the major change. Before that, most young people could not afford to join a gym. Obviously there are cultural and social factors, but the major change came with the introduction of low cost gyms.

HerrKuehn

I seem to have triggered a few gym bros, so maybe I better explain it a bit better. Before social media plenty of people went to the gym, despite what some people seem to think, there were affordable (local authority) gyms in the 90's, at least in Dublin. Of course people were training for aesthetic reasons then too, that is not the point I am trying to make. The point now is that it is so driven by social media and unrealistic expectations that it has gotten to the point it is beyond healthy. An example would be someone like Zyzz who had a lot of followers on social media, Derrick (more plates more dates) regularly discusses peoples steroid cycles and is very open about his own use. I have young guys I work with who take Clenbuterol to get shredded for the summer after bulking up during the winter! That is absolutely nuts in my opinion. I get professional athletes taking PEDs, they aren't trying to be healthy, they are trying to maximise performance, it's like turbocharging a car, it isn't good for the engine long term. There are reasons why they do it and it is a trade off, but guys just doing it to supposedly look a bit better is insane.

CPH91

Long-time lurker but finally a question I can answer.

Weight training and gym cultures in Ireland date to the 1820s when a Monsieur Beaujeu and others opened up Callisthenic gyms in Dublin. Interestingly he trained men and women using exercises like dips and chins. Heck, David Keohan's work on rediscovering Irish lifting stones has highlighted a much longer lineage of strength in Ireland.

The early origins of our modern interest in health and fitness came in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century when physical culture came to Ireland. Eugen Sandow - the man who the Mr. Olympia statue is modelled on - toured Belfast and Dublin in 1897 to great acclaim. The first Irish bodybuilding show was hosted in 1908 and the first weightlifting federation was organised in the late 1900s. We had a slow but steady growth of gyms in cities during this time.

This grew in the inter-war period when new kinds of gyms (like the Hercules co-op gym which still exists today) began to emerge. During the 1930s and 1940s, and continuing into the 1950s and 1960s, Irish fitness largely mimicked what went on in Great Britain.

To return to the question, a better question might be, when did weightlifting and bodybuilding break into mainstream Irish society given its nearly two-century history. The answer lies predominantly in the 1970s and 1980s when popular gyms grew in importance in Ireland thanks to broader worldwide forces (Pumping Iron, pumped-up action movie stars etc.) which met with the existent Irish interest. Importantly Irish fitness has always responded to developments in Britain and the United States.

More recent turns are obviously the rise of social media, new training modalities, and ease of access to PEDs. It is fascinating to see everyone's different responses because - as a historian of strength - we tend to think that when we joined fitness was when it was popularised.

Anyway, I'm rambling here somewhat. The answer is basically longer than many realize but it has intensified in the past four decades.

Also painfully aware that on the internet no one knows you're a dog, I've written a book The History of Physical Culture in Ireland and research this as a living. I'm aware that my book is very expensive (academic publishing is a different thing) but I've spoken about this on the Iron Culture podcast, and Arthur Lynch's No Lift podcast and run my own site - Physical Culture Study for anyone who wants to learn more. Likewise check out the StrongManProject - which is a free, online archive created by Rogue Fitness and the Stark Center and has hundreds of years of fitness writings and courses on it.

Thanks for making my day everyone. The more interest we take in our history the better and gladdened to see the amount of nuance here.

Black Sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120879903#Comment_120879903

Maybe we need a Q&A thread with you on the history of physical culture in Ireland... Thanks for chiming in. Your website, and your book look really interesting (Judging from the 'table of contents').

CPH91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880510#Comment_120880510

That'd be awesome. If you thought there was any interest in it just let me know. I'm always happy to discuss this stuff

Mr. CooL ICE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120879903#Comment_120879903

3 sentences into this post and i knew exactly who you were. Your podcasts on No Lift are brilliant amd everybody should give them a listen.

CPH91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120889213#Comment_120889213

Haha I'm that obvious?! Thanks so much, really appreciate that as I'm aware how niche my research can be!

Mr. CooL ICE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120889438#Comment_120889438

Well, it's obvious to someone who has listened to the podcasts!

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120879903#Comment_120879903

Amazing post. Would definitely support and engage in a AMA type thread on physical culture in Ireland. I’m sure the right people are on thread to make it happen.

In the meantime I’ll be checking out those other references. Lurk less please.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120879746#Comment_120879746

I don’t think anyone was triggered. It was simply that your post was incorrect. You might not have meant to imply that training for aesthetics is a new thing, but you did - it was a bit silly.

I don’t think your current point of unrealistic social media makes any more sense. Zyzz was a bodybuilder, probably the first social media “influencer” type. But I don’t see how his physique was any more unrealistic than Ronnie, Dorian or Arnie? If anything they were all magnitudes more extreme.

Derek (MPMD) is also a bodybuilder, who runs a podcast about bodybuilding and steroids. A steroid podcast talking about steroids. Kind of expected tbh.

The internet has just make this information more accessible for those who are interested. But the guys in the magazines, or on TV. Where always clearly on steroids.

banie01

In Limerick there's a long history of weight training. From Garryowen Weightlifting club in the 60's and onto the Southill Powerlifting club and other spots. Ifolks like the Dillons, the Bulmans and the Macnamaras to name a few and there were a few very weight-oriented gyms around too. I know in Ballynanty in the 80s that Ray Slattery had a gym in 1 of his sheds that was very well-frequented. Not by me ;) I was in his other shed playing arcade games.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120890254#Comment_120890254

Zyzz had a large online following, was very much admired by a lot of young guys. He also died in his early 20's. Not exactly someone to look up to in my opinion. His physique along with the other bodybuilders you mention was built using PEDs, which might make sense for professional athletes who have access to proper medical supervision, not so much for average clueless guys. I like Derrick and he seems to know what he is talking about, he is very clear about the costs of using these substances. My point was really more about it becoming much more popular with average joes now, as I mentioned I have heard guys in work saying they use Clenbuterol to cut weight for the summer. That is so far from health/fitness, it needs to be called out for what it is. I get that I am probably a bit dismissive of bodybuilding as I don't regard it as a "sport" as such, it is more like a kind of modelling.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120890592#Comment_120890592

I aware of Zyzz's online presence. And I haven't suggest anyone should emulate him (he died from a undiagnosed cardiac issue FWIW). I only mentioned him as you brought him up. He was the example that you gave for how it's recently become a focus on aesthetics. I'm disagreeing with that. As an example, Arnie was significantly more famous and influential on fitness. And his size was significantly more insane.

His physique along with the other bodybuilders you mention was built using PEDs, which might make sense for professional athletes who have access to proper medical supervision, not so much for average clueless guys.

Zyzz's physique was noting like the other bodybuilders I mentioned. He was significantly smaller. Yes they all used PEDs. I'm not suggesting bodybuilding is a healthy pursuit for anyone, I'm saying that you claim, that this is a new phenomena is nonsense. The guys I mentioned go back to the 70s FFS.

I wouldn't assume that athletes are doing PEDs under proper medical supervision. The super-elite maybe, the also rans definitely not.

 I like Derrick and he seems to know what he is talking about, he is very clear about the costs of using these substances. My point was really more about it becoming much more popular with average joes now, as I mentioned I have heard guys in work saying they use Clenbuterol to cut weight for the summer. 

Derek is clearly well educated on the topic and puts information out there. The internet has done that to every subject really, information has never been more accessible. Is PED use more common now, I don't know but I would say it probably is so. But I'd be sure that if you took an Average guy on steroids today verses an Average guy on steroids in the 90s. The guy today would have much more knowledge on the substances, his doses, his bloodwork, recovery drugs etc. Verses a guys in the past probably not even really knowing what they were actually injecting.

But you are still missing the point. You brought up extreme steroid users. Of course that's not healthy. But that was never the discussion. Most people who lift weights are not on steroids. Most people who do serious cardio are not on EPO. PEDs are not required in you are into fitness. These are extremes are they are not new things.

There were plenty diet pills sold OTC to slimmers in the late 90s and early 2000s that were borderline PEDs. People have always gone to extremes. The people it training as a serious hobby are not the ones I'd worry about. It's the crash dieters that lifestyle mags continue to champion.

Black Sheep

There'll always be a niche into PEDs, worrying about this tiny minority of users' health is largely pointless in my experience. They wont even take health advice from other PED users and former PED users with any consistency.

Has it grown in recent years? Maybe, although equally it could have peaked a few years ago, no one can be sure. It's certainly wrong to overly focus on PED use in considering the broad health benefits the growth of lifting in Ireland offer in comparison.

The PED use chat does bring me back to the Sunday World scare stories of my youth, that my mum would wave in my face, where some doctor who knew bugger about what he was on about would somberly warn the parents of Ireland that teenage boys were consuming vats of creatine to beat the band, and nothing good would come of it! Come on, I know some of ye are old enough...

kirk.

And there was this guy helped popularize it

Charles Atlas

CPH91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120892630#Comment_120892630

Just to chime in, that media scare about creatine now appears downright farcical, if not borderline irresponsible, in 2023. I previously dug into it here!

https://www.playingpasts.co.uk/articles/general/creatine-is-cheating-no-matter-how-you-look-at-it-moral-panics-and-irish-supplements-in-the-new-millennium/

Cill94

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120894317#Comment_120894317

The Irish media has quite the history of demonising creatine with literally no supporting evidence.

I recall one ex Irish rugby international writing a newspaper article, in which he claimed creatine could have played a significant role in the death of Jonah Lomu.

I think irresponsible would be a fair way of describing it.

DoctorEdgeWild

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120890592#Comment_120890592

There was a really good thread here years ago discussing whether or not Bodybuilding fit the criteria for a sport. Had some great contributors. Reminded me of how many great posters have come and gone over the years. (full disclosure, it's the sport I compete in so I'm biased!)