Racing TV and Sky Sports Racing may be affected by new gambling bill

mike2084

Have this up in the Horse Racing forum as well but think it's a broadcasting issue as well.

News in regard to TV coverage of racing here:

https://www.racingpost.com/news/ireland/racing-tv-and-sky-sports-racing-may-be-forced-to-stop-broadcasting-in-ireland-due-to-devastating-impact-of-new-gambling-bill-avdCN1l9cIAd/

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/sky-racing-threatens-to-quit-ireland-over-gambling-adverts-bill/a888130971.html

and

'It will be a disaster' - Ted Walsh fears for future of the sport in Ireland if gambling ads are banned on racing channels | Racing Post

I also read somewhere that this may effect coverage of Premier League football in Ireland as well, will try to dig that out.

icdg

I saw that. I don’t want to belittle the concerns by dismissing it as much ado about nothing, but at the same it shouldn’t affect channels who are licensed in other jurisdictions and broadcast into Ireland under the EU Audiovisual Directive. In other words it would be RTE, VMTV, TG4, and Premier Sports that would be affected, rather than Sky Sports or TNT. Premier would probably the hardest hit, as it has the double whammy of both being Irish licensed and showing mainly events from outside the jurisdiction. An option would be for it to relocate to another EU jurisdiction and broadcast into Ireland that way.

Most U.K. based broadcasters did not take up an Irish license after Brexit, they instead took out licenses in the likes of Germany, Luxembourg, or the Netherlands.

Quitelife

The Bookies dont help themselves bombarding people on racing channels with ADs of how to sign up every 5 minutes , free bet offers to lure people in.

If someone has a brain or some bit of a clue then they shut them down , the ADs should say we only want Mug punters or people who havent a clue .

Too much silent gambling online destroying homes .

It wasnt too bad one time when people who wanted a bet went to the races or the dogs at night or went into a physical bookmakers & met a few but nowadays bookies want you to lose your household income in your own bedrom/sitting room .

PS The racing industry shouldt have to rely on bookie ADS income, theres a share of people making huge money breeding & Selling horses who seem to pay no tax on profits out of horse racing.

mike2084

Fully agree, the bookmakers have a lot to answer for. I suppose I'm a bit unusual that I follow racing closely but seldom, if ever, actually bet. So I purely watch it for enjoyment. Yes the online aspect of betting also needs complete overhaul and some form of proper safeguards is badly needed.

Further update in The Irish Field this week:

NEWS: Racing channels under threat from gambling legislation 14 July 2023 Free (theirishfield.ie)

icdg

We might try to concentrate on the broadcasting aspect rather than the rights and wrongs of gambling itself, I know people may have strong feelings but the substantive discussion is simply off topic for this forum.

roadmaster

In the Committee hearing during the week the Sky Rep said it would not affect soccer Broadcasts to Ireland aldo some TDs said in the meeting that sky had made submissions that it would. Its hard to know what the truth is.

In Regards to the racing ads could they not just have the channel behind a pin lock like sky have for some shows during day time hours?.

I also belive the British are intending to bring in simlar laws in regards to gambling ads

mike2084

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120854237#Comment_120854237

Yes I thought the Pin lock would be a good solution to the problem as well. I expect we will hear more about this in the autumn, all the racecourse managers are contacting TD's etc.

Atlantic Dawn

If it's a ban on bookmaker ads then all Lottery advertising should come under the same criteria, it should be across the board. Some pensioner pumping €50 a week in to scratchcards and lotto slips is as bad as someone placing bets on the horses.

mikeym

If those racing channels go off air in Ireland surely punters will end up watching the races online?

mike2084

Latest news on this matter:

'The beginning of the end' - more than 40 trainers raise concerns about impending Gambling Regulation Bill | Racing Post

mike2084

Further update on this, HRI had a meeting with the Minister of State which while described as 'constructive' did not achieve any progress on the issue of gambling adverts between 5:30a.m. and 9 p.m. One source in the racing industry thinks it will now be an 'uphill struggle' to maintain access to the racing channels.

NEWS: Live racing pictures remain under threat 08 September 2023 Free (theirishfield.ie)

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121091359#Comment_121091359

Simlar article below. The ban is not as strict as i taught as the jockeys sponsors will not be blocked and it look like it is more around the adds during the breaks and when the horses are loading.

Think the state is over reacting here still as i cant see to many kids watching racing during the day.if The two stations pull the plug how they stop watching streams from the UK using VPNs?

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/ban-on-tv-gambling-adverts-could-block-racing-channels-in-ireland/a884926132.html

mike2084

Nope it's not that strict at all expect for this block on gambling ads, and as the UK have not put a similar provision in their legislation the broadcasters aren't going to do it. Though At The Races (now Sky Sports racing) used to have an Irish ads opt-out when they showed Irish racing, so they could have probably done it alright.

icdg

Surely there’s a complaint to the EU Commission to be made here - how can the State purport to regulate broadcasters not licensed here? Surely the whole point of the the AVMSD is that broadcasters only need to be licensed and regulated in one EU jurisdiction?

And yes, absolutely even if it’s legally sound, surely an Irish opt out with no gambling ads would solve the issue, if it only applies to advertising and sponsorship actually sold by the broadcaster and not on-track sponsorship that happens to appear as part of the broadcast. Sounds like the two broadcasters have decided that won’t pay?

mike2084

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095842#Comment_121095842

Yes you would think that the AVMSD is something that could be brought up, I presume RTV has it's EU licence in Luxembourg or the like. And yes the Irish opt out would solve it in one stroke, but both channels say it's not commercially viable, RTV are quoting a cost of €2 million to do it.

icdg

I have to say I’d be more accepting of that if Sky didn’t already sell adverts on behalf of 30 UK satellite channels with Irish opt outs already. Some of these stations are niche in their own right: Are they saying that each of these channels individually earn enough advertising revenue in excess of €2m pa to justify their existence - a combined €60m pa? Is the Irish advertising market really that lucrative? (Edit: apparently all TV advertising combined is €265m pa, but RTE and VMTV must make up the lions share of that).

I find it hard to believe that Sky Sports Golf justifies an opt out but Sky Sports Racing doesn’t, given the interest in racing here.

mike2084

Interesting article with the CEO of Horse Racing Ireland, apparently the minister has said he will accept a 'legally workable' solution if one can be found.

'We can't let that happen, we have to find a solution' - HRI chief speaks out about possible loss of pictures | Racing Post

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103346#Comment_121103346

I think there is a big mood switch in government and they have the support to push it through. You could end up with Racing TV with just UK rights and irish tv with the standard free to air rights on rte or virgin

mike2084

RTV looking to meet with the minister.

Racing TV owners seek crunch talks with minister on 'economically unviable' Gambling Regulation Bill | Racing Post

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121111575#Comment_121111575

I like the quote below:

An RMG spokesperson said: “We did initially write to Minister Browne and the Department of Justice in March and April to request a meeting, but we never received a response

roadmaster

This ban seams to be getting a little closer. Is there any viewership numbers of what these channels get?

https://www.theirishfield.ie/racing/racing-news/news-racing-channel-ban-would-destroy-the-industry-778589

mike2084

I've heard that Racing TV has around 30,000 Irish subscribers. Sky Sports Racing is available to anyone with the right Sky Entertainment package, the same one that has Eurosport I think. SSR used to have an Irish ad opt-out but it closed about 2 years ago.

icdg

It has stalled its parliamentary passage since last July, read into that what you will, but this is legislation that’s been before the Oireachtas since 2022 and we are now in 2024.

mike2084

Article on this issue in The Sunday Times this week (behind a paywall), apparently will be back in the Dáil in April, then Seanad in May for enactment into law during the summer if there is no more hold-ups. Mentions consistent talk of a possible racing channel ad exemption but the Minister is steadfast against this.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/will-the-irish-government-fold-on-gambling-crackdowns-rf0hmb2kz

channelsurfer2

Just looking at this in the context of elections coming up etc. I have a feeling it will be postponed and let the next Government take the issue up

roadmaster

I was listening to Ivan Yeats podcast and he had a good ramble about this bill and saying if it gos through we wll be looking at the closure of race tracks.

I know everything he says you take with a truck load of salt but i have been to normal meetings in fairyhouse and the curragh with work and only for our group know one would be there. The numbers attending are very poor so maybe there is some truth in what he says.

mike2084

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121952201#Comment_121952201

He is right there, the sport has changed nowadays that outside of the big days it's generally watched off-course. 80-90% of the fixtures are run for media rights money.

Belta_TVwiz

It's time we had a chat about the relentless "Cash Machine" adverts blaring through the waves on Today FM. I don't know about you but I'm feeling like I'm stuck in the gambling zone with no way out.

Every time I tune in, it's a barrage of "Cash Machine" DJ chatter assaulting my ears. I can't even enjoy my tunes without dodging these relentless pitches for phone in gambling cash.

mike2084

The bill is at report and final stages in the Dail next Wednesday 10th April.

roadmaster

The state seams to think the horse racing will have no problem getting other ads?

Broadcasters and licensees will be obliged to comply with the obligations concerning advertising and sponsorship. In the case of broadcasters in particular, it has been shown that they have the capacity to replace advertising intended for other jurisdictions with Irish focused advertising. Therefore they should be able to comply with the obligations being introduced in the Bill.

tayto lover

Keep the gambling adverts to the racing channels and all will be ok.

icdg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121971037#Comment_121971037

The suggestion is that there’s no sound rationale to distinguish between horse racing and other sports in this regard, horse racing is not the only sport that bets are placed on.

Having the capacity to replace UK with Irish advertising doesn’t mean it can be done in all cases. That is not a cost free endeavour. There is a finite pot of buying available, a broadcaster has to weigh up the cost of additional satellite space, EPG charges etc and hope that the revenue they will attract will at least pay for the costs of offering the service. Despite this one consequence of this move is that this may be the spur for several channels that don’t currently have ROI advertising opt outs to launch them, I am thinking TNT Sports in particular, having seen several gambling adverts on it during this weeks FAPL midweek fixtures.

However it may also be the case that rather than turn down gambling adverts other broadcasters, who are not particularly targeting Ireland, will pull their services from Ireland entirely. This isn’t scaremongering, we saw this post Brexit when several UK broadcasters pulled their services from ROI EPGs rather than take out EU licenses because it didn’t pay for them to do so.

AJB39

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968063#Comment_121968063

It’s been dropped from the schedule for this week due to the knock on effects on the schedule from the change in Taoiseach. I presume it’ll be back on the schedule for next week.

AJB39

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121995656#Comment_121995656

It’s not on the schedule for next week either.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122010817#Comment_122010817

Before you know it the dail will be on hoildays than when they come back they will be getting ready for an election and the gambling bill will be left to the next government

mike2084

Debate now scheduled for next Wednesday 24th April.

mike2084

Update on what may happen on Wednesday:

https://www.theirishfield.ie/racing/racing-news/news-minister-plans-gambling-bill-amendments-814649

(Should be readable - 5 free articles per month for all users)

mike2084

Apparently the TV broadcasting/advertising aspects of the bill will not be discussed tomorrow.

https://www.racingpost.com/news/ireland/no-change-to-controversial-betting-blackout-expected-as-gambling-regulation-bill-comes-before-government-afh4E2f4H8EK/

roadmaster

Its going to be very interesting to see how this plays out. Will james browne call the racing industrys bluff or will be end up with these stations geoblocked?

icdg

Having publicly said they will do withdraw from the Irish market they (Sky-ATR and RTV) kind of have to go through with it. Still don’t get how Sky Sports Golf merits an opt out on advertising revenue (and I am partial to a bit of the PGA Tour from time to time) but Sky Sports Racing doesn’t. I suspect it could be made work, but having made the threat they have to follow through with it.

roadmaster

This looks like it may actually happen.

https://www.racingpost.com/news/ireland/it-makes-no-sense-tds-call-for-gambling-regulation-bill-to-be-recommitted-in-fiery-debate-in-dail-eireann-aBi5d4Q0NmTM/

mike2084

Latest update in today's Irish Field

https://www.theirishfield.ie/racing/racing-news/news-racing-channels-remain-in-jeopardy-as-gambling-bill-nears-final-stages-815631

roadmaster

If the UK Channells do pull the plug will that leave a gap for Irish FTA channels to buy the rights to show the racing?

icdg

It could, I guess, if they are able to pull out of their existing deals, they could probably argue that this is an event outside their control which means that they could hand back the rights.

But who would pick them up? VMTV already don’t show all of the horse racing that’s available for them to show, as part of their deal for ITV Racing. What makes you think they would pick up more at this point?

Maybe the Irish side of what Racing TV have. Would cash strapped RTE be willing to pick up the day to day stuff for broadcast to a small audience during the day on weekdays, constrained by the same limitation on selling betting advertising? For TG4, the issue is they’d need to do their own presentation and commentary, and wouldn’t be able to rely on any “world feed” in that regard, because it would have to be in Irish. Again would the costs outweigh the benefits of mainly daytime programming to a small audience?

Unless Premier Sports, perhaps, might be interested and if they could make it work by simply relaying RTV (as Setanta did in the past - remember that giant full colour DOG to overlay over the RUK, as was, one?).

But either way, and discounting VMTV who already can’t show all the racing they have rights to, I can’t see any taker for the sheer breadth of what might come on the market if these channels go, and I imagine only a fraction of the more attractive meetings would be picked up.

mike2084

I doubt any Irish channel would pick them up, although TG4 do cover a lot of the meetings that RTÉ don't but again no FTA terrestrial type broadcaster is going to cover racing every day, there just isn't the demand for it outside of die hard enthusiasts.

Remember also Horse Racing Ireland are in a contract for pictures with SIS until 2027. SIS provide the pictures to RTV, so that would all have to be renegotiated. It doesn't affect SIS in betting shops as there is no advertising on it anyway. Bizarrely, it doesn't affect bookmakers streaming racing on their websites either, with many of them requiring you to place a bet first to watch a race.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122075399#Comment_122075399

there just isn't the demand for it outside of die hard enthusiasts.

I think what you said maybe why this bill will.maybe pass.

mike2084

Back in the Dail again this Wednesday evening, seems to be a rush to get it through.

mike2084

Bill passed in the Dail on Wednesday evening.

Latest news in this Irish Times report on HRI's strategic plan for 2024-28. The CEO of HRI said they have been working with Racing TV on a solution to the advertising problem. This first suggestion was a little 'cost prohibitive' so they apparently are still working on it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/racing/2024/04/30/horse-racing-ireland-unveils-its-new-strategic-plan-for-2024-28/

mike2084

There seems to have been a significant development in the future of Racing TV in Ireland on Friday evening, this weeks Irish Field is claiming an exclusive that the channel will stay on air even if the Gambling Regulation Bill is enacted without any further advertising amendments. Apparently a 'Plan B' has been put in place between bookmakers and broadcasters.

https://www.theirishfield.ie/racing/racing-news/exclusive-racing-channels-set-to-stay-on-air-817374

They have unfortunately set the story to subscriber only so I won't see any more details until the print edition is available on Saturday.

The Gambling Regulation Bill is scheduled for Seanad debate on Tuesday.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122122815#Comment_122122815

Did a Minister actually get something done that he said he would do?

mike2084

Now completely contradicted by Racing TV themselves, who is lying?

https://www.racingpost.com/news/ireland/racing-tv-rejects-claims-revenue-void-caused-by-an-advertising-ban-could-be-filled-with-increased-bookmaker-contributions-aqfc44s7VUgM/