Sound of freedom

santana75

This is doing well stateside. From Angel studios so the budget isn't super big (which is noticeable by the trailer). By all accounts it's meant to be decent enough. I wonder when or if it'll get a theatrical release this side of the world? It's a worthy subject matter so hopefully it will get a run at the cinema. Interesting that it was made 5 years ago but only now seeing the light of day. If I was partial to Conspiracy theories I might think there was something sinister behind that sort of delay. Anyway saw an interview Jordan Peterson did with Jim cavieziel and Tim ballard, and also another that Shawn Ryan did and I'm pretty excited to see this one

https://youtu.be/hyyyKcfJRGQ

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058304353/sound-of-freedom

The film looks interesting....but Jim Caviezel has gone a bit bonkers...well more than a bit (Q anon, adrenochrome) hard to watch him in anything.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120827283#Comment_120827283

let me tell you about Tom Cruise, Caviezel was great in Person of Interest and certainly less dodgy than someone like Ezra Miller

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120827685#Comment_120827685

Tom Cruise is a scientologist yep I know it's bonkers but hey religious freedom and all that. Errr Ezra Miller is a very very low bar (tbh partially why that flash film flopped he was always overrated).

Speaking at Qanon events (and endorsing the dangerous nonsense (anti semetic etc) linked to it multiple times) and some of the stuff he said and repeated since...genuinely bonkers...."adrenochroming".

Manach

Critical Drinker did a review and rated it highly.

Hangdogroad

American Bible belt is one thing. Cant see Irish or European audiences having the same appetite for this kind of stuff.

~Rebel~

The subject matter itself is interesting... but something about the framing of it in this makes my skin crawl a little bit. Maybe it's just the low quality look, and lines like; "gods children are not for sale".

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120827783#Comment_120827783

Well thats not a great endorsement.

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120828012#Comment_120828012

The fact that a QR code pops up at the end of the film urging viewers to buy more tickets (the more the better!) also seems more like a tactic to juice box office numbers to me, as opposed to anything that’ll actually help solve the issue of human trafficking. That said, there’s a big evangelical audience for faith-based films in the US, and the studios involved are increasingly putting their conservative and religious messaging into more traditional genre fare (a thriller in this case, or horror in the recent Nefarious). There’s a lot of very powerful people and organised groups very committed to making conservative-leaning films and getting audiences to see them.

The filmmakers themselves may have had noble or at least genuine intentions here, and by most accounts the film itself doesn’t indulge in the more extreme / batshit views of its star (this article does a reasonable job discussing some of what’s going on with it all: https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2023/07/07/sound-of-freedom-qanon-theories-jim-caviezel/). But boy a lot of the internet’s worst people seem to be more interested in using the film to ‘own the libs’ and harass / smear ideological opponents as opposed to a genuine interest in raising awareness of child trafficking. It’s all a bit grim, and hard to separate the film itself from.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120827775#Comment_120827775

the film was made in 2017/18 so predates the q anon nonsense and its based on a true story , personally I'd just find it grim to see in a cinema. The reaction to it only fuels demand to watch it and now they have "the elites dont want you to see it" , classic Streisand effect

santana75

I honestly don't think it matters what side of the political divide you fall into, child trafficking is one of those "Common enemy" type situations that anyone with even a shred of decency in them would find sickening and would fight to eradicate from the face of the earth. This is definitely something that for whatever reasons is not given much attention in the mainstream media so I think Angel studios deserve some credit.

pixelburp

Plenty of films struggle to get a distributor, it doesn't automatically mean some kind of conspiracy is afoot; not unless you buy into the automatic victim complex that the Christian Conservative movement in America has tended to indulge in as America has shifted into a more secular direction of late. I'd like to think here in Ireland, we're a little more insulated, and a little more nuanced, from that kind of bunkered tribalism. Not least because many of these branches of Christianity over there look down on Catholics, so they ain't our friends lol.

Christian film/rock/culture is a surprisingly robust cottage industry & market in America, alongside movies that are heavily aimed at African-American audiences (basically, the entire Madea film franchise); but that's the key part here: both have absolutely zero marketability outside of those respective markets. They barely have appeal outside the States & Cities in which they're expected to do well. They're insular by design - and would mean that for a distributor there's much less appeal in taking a punt on (say) an international release than something similarly internally focused - but broke into international recognition - like RRR.

As to the trailer? It was the closest thing to the Maude Flanders "won't somebody think of the children" I've watched in ages; yes it's a worthy, emotive subject that bares highlighting, but the hand-wringing hyper-earnest Christian movie is not the best vessel to tell the story. A few lines tipping the hat towards that God infused energy.

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120828830#Comment_120828830

I think you’d struggle to find a single person who doesn’t think child trafficking is a sickening crime that needs to be eradicated. The problem is in the US the issue *has* become highly and (regrettably) farcically politicised, largely by the QAnon movement and their truly demented conspiracy theories. They’re far less interested in actually eradicating the problem as they are in smearing anyone liberal or left as a pedophile harvesting children for their adrenaline glands. Unfortunately, Caviezel himself has openly peddled various aspects of this lunacy in promoting this film, so there are perfectly valid questions about whether he’s the right person to be leading a unified fight against child trafficking. If anything, it sounds like the film itself, while obviously having its own less extreme ideological biases (personally I don’t need an evangelical-tinged lecture on the evils of child trafficking, because I’m already aware of said evils), is ill-served by its star’s public wildly divisive proclamations.

mewso

If you search for this on youtube you'll see loads of "Woke media furious" titles. One video is a guy who looked into the case that the film dramatizes and shock horror a lot of it is pure fantasy. The supposed hero here is a guy called Tim Ballard who has an organisation called OUR (Operation Underground Railroad):-

https://www.vice.com/en/article/4a3apm/anti-trafficking-group-with-long-history-of-false-claims-gets-its-hollywood-moment

Ultimately the trump card is if you criticise this guy, his organisation or the movie then of course you you don't care about trafficked children.

santana75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120828919#Comment_120828919

"largely by the QAnon movement and their truly demented conspiracy theories. They’re far less interested in actually eradicating the problem as they are in smearing anyone liberal or left as a pedophile harvesting children for their adrenaline glands"

I confess that I had to look up "Qanon" on the google machine, I'd never even heard of this. Personally I'm gonna give the film makers the benefit of the doubt here and assume that their reasons for producing this film were sincere and concerned only with bringing attention to the evil of child trafficking. It is made by a christian studio so God will be in there, but that doesnt necessarily mean it'll be preachy or even heavy handed. I've seen a couple of faith based movies, some are over ripe and clunky but one or two have been very good. The movie made by Sony "Risen", a couple of years back, was excellent so if Sound of freedom is half as good then it'll still be a decent film.

Hangdogroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829440#Comment_120829440

You havent even heard of Qanon?

Really?

mewso

Who needs the evils of child trafficking brought to their attention? I think we all would consider it evil. This film seems to imply that police are twiddling their thumbs ignoring some kind of epidemic when in reality there are organisations across the globe that specifically deal with trafficking, some that have criticised the very organisation the hero of this movie founded. You have to be careful about the rabbit holes this kind of thing leads you down. You'll come out the other side going on about x number of children going missing every year (without any kind of analysis of what percentage of that number has actually been abducted), claiming Hollywood doesn't want us to know about this because the elites buy children and you'll probably end up claiming it's all being controlled by the Zionists. If these religious folks really cared about children maybe they could try being up in arms about the lack of gun control in the US being a contributing factor to the deaths of many children, the percentage of children in the US who live in poverty or heck maybe even the way children at the border were separated from their families under Trump but no we can't do that because these guys are Trump supporters.

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829551#Comment_120829551

Yep, you just need to look at the predictably horrendous responses to the tweet below to see there are a lot of people less interested in actually addressing the problem than they are in smearing anyone who questions the film’s dubious motivations / associations as being a child trafficking apologist or worse.

https://twitter.com/intothecrevasse/status/1677071757495115778?s=46&t=nwvJe3fJtU0siJ7wj5mjTA

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829440#Comment_120829440

Qanon is a big driving force that has cross-pollinated with American Christian Conservatism - TBH giving the filmmakers the benefit of the doubt is a little charitable; slight coincidence that its main star is himself a believer in this conspiracy nonsense. This demographic of America has increasingly become more belligerent, antagonistic - and with Qanon - outright conspiratorial. Wariness would be a good starting point IMO.

Anyway: does child trafficking need a spotlight? It's probably one of the few crimes out there that already curries a great deal of International cooperation - and one of even fewer types of crime that meets universal condemnation and disgust. While isn't it arguable that maybe a fictionalised "man saves everyone through guns and stoicism" narrative is not the best way to drive more exposure about this; especially if religious or political dogma is in the background? American filmmaking does love a good gross simplification mind you. Indeed, with the world we live in there's an argument that a good social media campaign will do more to drive conversation or action than some random movie released to entertain Bible Belt America.

"Child trafficking is fúcking awful and should be wiped out" isn't exactly a controversial swing here.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829691#Comment_120829691

if fairness now, branding a film q anon adjacent for a film that was made before the qanon nonsense is just bait, its helped ticket sales though so kind of funny . the media should just have ignored it if they were uncomfortable with it

Sudden Valley

Seems to be getting good reviews from people that take the bonkers views of Jim Caviezel out of it so will probably give it a look after it leaves cinemas. Caviezel really seems like a complex guy; he's very religious but didnt object to the gay romance in Person of Interest, but also got kicked out/didnt join the TV series Seal Team due to aggro with it's main actor.

Hangdogroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829783#Comment_120829783

Filmed in 2018 so not exactly accurate to say it predated Qanon, which was first mentioned online the previous year. The seeds of Qanon have been in formation for years, stuff like Pizzagate etc.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829842#Comment_120829842

and wiki says it was in development since 2015

Development

Sound of Freedom was inspired by the work of Tim Ballard, the founder of Operation Underground Railroad, or O.U.R.,[6] an anti-trafficking activist. Work on the script began in 2015.[1] Ballard had personally requested that Jim Caviezel portray him because he was affected by Caviezel's role in The Count of Monte Cristo (2002).[7][8] Caviezel has stated that Sound of Freedom was the second most important film he has ever done, ranking behind his role as Jesus Christ in The Passion of the Christ (2004).[9][8]

The film's score is composed by Javier Navarrete.[10]

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829783#Comment_120829783

Qanon-adjacent is an entirely accurate descriptor, given its star (who directly addresses the audience at the end of this film asking for more money - presumably filmed in more recent times) is out there spouting QAnon views and it has been openly signal boosted by various right-wing groups and activists. The article itself does an excellent job breaking down the film itself relative to everything that surrounds it.

Why wouldn’t the media cover it? It’s an interesting and noteworthy cultural story. Naturally, if the media didn’t cover it, the story would be ‘liberal media ignores box office hit!’ When they do cover it and give it the critical due diligence it deserves, it’s ‘haha you’re raising its profile / lying about it’. There’s no winning arguments like that, and frankly there’s no point even engaging with them.

BruteStock

I have no interest in seeing this film. Regardless its raising awareness for a terrible situation so thats only a good thing. 10 years ago the media praised Ballard. Then Trump happened. Now anything the right supports has to be repudiated by the left ,even ifs a film that exposes child trafficking.

The media (particularly Vice) deserve whatever hate they receive for being the engineers of the culture wars that dominate our society. They have been ever since Op Mockingbird. This film presents a bipartisan issue everybody should be able to come together to support. Whatever side taken is the wrong side.

https://twitter.com/PatriotLiv/status/1677854103551070213

BruteStock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829842#Comment_120829842

Pizzagate was a very real exposure of how covert words were used to spread indecent images of children across social media. Quanon is a word used mostly by politically charged left wingers. The meaning of the word is unknown to most people.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/instagram-vast-pedophile-network-4ab7189

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829918#Comment_120829918

or the media does its job and give it fair coverage yet ask hard questions. Im going to guess Caviezal was interviewed on Fox or similar but not on CNN or MSNBC ? calling Joe Rogan!! lol

mewso

The narrative here is hero needs to leave Homeland Security because the big gov doesn't care about trafficked children. This is a terrible message that is simply designed to boost the profile of this OUR organisation and grab some extra sheckles on the way. Damaging to my mind rather than making any valuable contribution to the problem. This is an organisation that based an operation in Haiti (which failed) on a psychic's information.

Hangdogroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120830044#Comment_120830044

..

homerun_homer

Listen to this Q Anonymous podcast episode about Jim Caviezal. The man is cray. I had to laugh at the bits about how he can't memorize lines to save his life.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2dlHzwNxkUXJKxuvjOMrJ6?si=1c1158f0f2c84180

santana75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829767#Comment_120829767

I might be picking you up wrong but are you saying attention shouldn't be drawn to this topic? Personally I've gathered far more information from the interviews I've seen with Tim ballard(Jordan Peterson's show on YouTube)than anything I've heard through the mainstream media. The mainstream media seem to avioding reporting on this. So to say, ah sure everyone knows about this already is somewhat dismissive. I'd guess you haven't actually seen the film and neither have I but I think it's fair to not judge it until you've sat down and watched it for yourself. But I feel there's a certain level of antagonism towards Christianity and God behind the opposition to the film. Even in this thread it seems like the knives are out and if you peel back the thin veil what's at its core is hostility towards Christianity and everything that it stands for. Anyway I'll report back when I've seen the film and I'll judge it on its own merits.

silliussoddius

What kind of reporting do you expect? Do people really need a film to be made in order to know this goes on in the world.

The problem people has is that Caviezel has embraced what is possibly the dumbest conspiracy theory (and that's saying something), Qanon is basically "everyone I don't like is a pedo". Now anyone who criticizes Caviezel will be questioned about why they are against child trafficking and it's like a self fulfilling prophecy for Qanon where people who don't buy everything are part of the conspiracy. At the root of all this is that no one really gives a crap about children, it's just a tool to to get at the other team.

I could be cynical and say why a staunch Catholic like Caviezel and other religious groups wants to draw attention to other areas of child abuse when I'm sure they could point their resources closer to home.

Fysh

I notice that, two pages in, we've still not seen any discussion about whether the film is any good as an action film if you set aside the subject matter.

Yes, this is somewhat tacky but OTOH if you want to seriously raise awareness about child trafficking something along the lines of documentary is more likely to change minds. This strikes me as agitprop, which will be part of the reason its distribution will be somewhat limited - if it's been made with a Christian/Conservative/Qanon audience in mind, it's going to have limited reach beyond that - unless the action aspects of the film are really good.

Hangdogroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120831010#Comment_120831010

You follow Jordan Peterson yet you claim in all seriousness that you never heard of Qanon till it was mentioned in this very thread?

Burty330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120831210#Comment_120831210

You liked pizzagate to qanon so clearly you don't know what it means either.

Hangdogroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120831257#Comment_120831257

Are you claiming that there's no relation between these two thoroughly debunked conspiracy theories?

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120831175#Comment_120831175

It's actually supposed to be a good film, but Caviezel's involvement would put me of it. I know Hollywood is full of morons, but I've been following Qanon since the early days and it is in a completely different leaague.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120831010#Comment_120831010

Of course I'm not saying that. You definitely need to reread my post.

The mainstream media isn't reporting on what? Child trafficking or the movie? Because trafficking is absolutely reported here, and would suggest you disconnect from the US centric bubble. Because while not constantly in the news trafficking is a hot topic given its a problem as one goes eastwards across the continent.

While WRT the movie, by all accounts it's a tiny indie movie that made a small splash on the US box office through the repute of its finances and main star. The chattering classes latching onto the context from which it has been spawned - which can't be ignored given what is proposed by the conspiracies. But Why would or should it receive anymore coverage than other Indies doing well?

And no, I don't have antagonism towards Christianity and God, don't try to reframe the objections or views here. The criticism levelled has been entirely been at the star and the (let's charitably call them) political beliefs of the those behind the film; which are yes, American Christian Conservatives whose practises can be less than Christian, TBH; I've worked with plenty of bible belt Christians and as individuals they're fine - their political reps less so.

But these are beliefs that absolutely won't have much translation into international markets.

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120830044#Comment_120830044

Pizzagate? This pizzagate?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizzagate_conspiracy_theory

Fysh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120831387#Comment_120831387

Well, this is the thing - it's so entrenched in Culture War Tedium that it doesn't seem straightforward to get any detailed commentary on it as an action film, which realistically is the only way anyone not suffering from severe internet poisoning is going to watch it.

Which makes me think it's probably alright in a 6/10 sort of way, but tbh the 6/10 action film output from the US isn't high on my list to begin with, so adding Qanon bollox doesn't exactly help...

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120831525#Comment_120831525

Well true. The movie has been corrupted by the whole context around it, but given the studio and talent involved - and the trailer itself, to watch it - I don't think John Wick, or even Liam Neeson, need worry too much and best case is as you say, a 6/10 movie. It all looks about one step below Netflix's action flicks, just with a religious throughline.

BruteStock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120831419#Comment_120831419

You are very misinformaed because it turned out that pizzagate was very real

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/06/damning-probes-find-instagram-is-key-link-connecting-pedophile-rings/

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120828163#Comment_120828163

Its basically a hybrid of pyramid scheme and marketing excercise for the creators.

Wrapped in a very flimsy premise of being a movie.

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120831650#Comment_120831650

What are you on about? It doesn't....the article you linked literally mentioned some hashtags and Instagram being used for underage pictures etc.

Pizzagate was a load of nonsense...

Literally it began with the below

"The allegation, which is false, is that Hillary and Bill Clinton used the Comet Ping Pong pizza restaurant in Washington, D.C., as a front for a pedophile sex ring; the back room was supposedly used for kidnapping and trafficking children."

So yeah "pizzagate was very real"...ffs wise up.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizzagate_conspiracy_theory

The article you linked doesn't overlap at all bar mentioning underage kids etc.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120831796#Comment_120831796

Us sheep will never achieve the levels of mental gymnastics involved to get this.

This is one problem that will come from Sound of Freedom, people of a certain bent will use it to prey on people. It will start of with the obvious disgust towards child trafficking, then why isn't everyone outraged and then it's the tinfoil rabbit hole.

BruteStock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120831796#Comment_120831796

The harsh tags used were cheese pizza = CP. You didn't read what was posted. For some warped reason you want to block your mind from the truth. Why are you challenging me for bringing to your attending that The Washington Post exposed the whole thing earlier this year. Are you calling them liars and conspiracy theorists? Even META admitted they failed? What motivates you to defend something that?

Go and educate yourself before talking out your fundament.

Instagram has emerged as the most important platform for buyers and sellers of underage sex content, according to investigations from The Wall Street Journal, Stanford Internet Observatory, and the University of Massachusetts Amherst (UMass) Rescue Lab.

Instagram Connects Vast Pedophile Network

The Meta unit’s systems for fostering communities have guided users to child-sex content; company says it is improving internal controls

https://www.wsj.com/articles/instagram-vast-pedophile-network-4ab7189

The WSJ reported that Instagram was so ineffective at stopping pedophile rings from forming that it would sometimes display a pop-up screen when users searched for known abusive content, warning users that “these results may contain images of child sexual abuse." Users could then choose to "see results anyway" or "get resources" regarding the harms of consumption of abusive content.

pjohnson

Ah the "educate yourself" trope, which involves absolutely no education and just conspiracy.

Exactly what this "movie" is aiming for.

#BuyTickets

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120831859#Comment_120831859

Ah yeah I am done with that poster, you can't really reason with someone who has gone so far down the rabbit hole, it's quite sad really.

I knew it wouldn't be long before a line like the below was wheeled out

"What motivates you to defend something that?"

Paedophiles and similar scumbags using Instagram to communicate is grim and social media companies need to do far far more. But that isn't what pizzagate is.... anyyyyyway sure I am talking out of my "fundament"...

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120831796#Comment_120831796

Pizzagate was just another aspect of the new narrative of the conservative movement in the US: they know same sex marriage is popular, abortion too and progressive politics in general - so these drums have increasingly become hollow sources of attack. instead it's all Maude Flanders stuff, scaremongering and histrionics about threats to children however they can fashion it. Drag shows, sex or gender ed books, paedos around the corner ... and the Deep State are probably involved. They've found the one emotive issue they think they can tap to dog-whistle their way into the hearts and minds of what remains of a very Fundamentalist branch of Christianity over there. Just watch a CPAC to see it in action; the Handmaid's Tale isn't that much of a stretch.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120831862#Comment_120831862

You're taking the hashtag mentioning pizza, and thinking that is a connection to Pizzagate. It's not. Pizzagate was specifically the attempt to smear high ranking dems as belonging to a pedo ring run through the Comet Ping Pong Pizzeria.

You may as well be trying to connect water boarding with watergate.

Hangdogroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120832197#Comment_120832197

You won't find the Qanon, Pizzagate mob going after Andrew Tate.