Laser on Rifle - Legal?

Gumbo

Guys, quick question.

A laser mounted onto the pic rail of a rifle. Leaf or not?

Not mine by the way I have no rail on my rifle remaining due to scope.

Just a topic of conversation that popped up this morning as it was mentioned.

https://www.huntingandfishing.ie/product/laser-micro-sa/

Cass

It's been many years since this topic came up so my info could be out of date but last I checked if it was under 5nw and no more than class 3a then it's fine. Anything over and it's prohibited.

As for fitting to a firearm. The law only specifies scopes that are nv, thermal, or devices with light amplification ability. A laser pointer is none of these.

I won't say it's legal or not as there seems to be nothing prohibiting it but that doesn't mean there isn't some other act, outside of the firearms ones, that makes it legal/illegal.

Gumbo

Thanks Cass.

TheEngineer1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120792099#Comment_120792099

The word laser is an acronym.

LASER = Light Amplification by Stimulating Emission Radiation.

So by it's very definition it is a device with a light amplification ability.

So I would understand that a laser mounted on a scope makes the setup a restricted firearm, but mounting the laser on the gun itself without it being mounted on the scope or sights would be okay from my understanding of the law.

Cass

I understand the acronym, but does the amplification in that not refer to amplification of the light emitted from the device, not in the object being "illuminated"?

As I said above I'm not going to commit to a definitive answer but given the law and how it is written the light amplification aspect would suggest that the law is leaning or specifically refering to scope/sights with that ability.

By that I mean a laser will not improve a person's ability to see a target in the way a night vision would or a thermal scope would. A laser would simply point to a target but give no increase in ability to view it than you could see with your eyes.

If that makes sense.

A torch is a light amplification device (mostly) but requires no authorisation to be mounted to a firearm, like nv/thermal, as it points and cannot be used a sight to look through. My thinking is a laser would be in the same category.

Gumbo

Interesting comments guys. Thanks.

The conversation came about as a mate was showing me his Glock Airsoft replica with red dot and laser mounted below for fun 😀

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120793711#Comment_120793711

A torch isn’t a light amplification device. It’s light emitting. A laser amplifys a single wavelength of light, then emits it.

In addition to amplification devices, the law also refers to “light beams”, which definitely includes laser.

But those clauses only apply to telescopic sights that include the above. No mention of separate devices.

Cass

@Mellor "A torch isn’t a light amplification device. It’s light emitting. A laser amplifys a single wavelength of light, then emits it"

Yeah, I wasn't sure how to word that, hence I said "mostly". I suppose light focusing and emitting would have been more apt/correct?

@Mellor "In addition to amplification devices, the law also refers to “light beams”, which definitely includes laser"

It doesn't list light beams as a stand alone object/item/etc. It says telescopic sight with light beams or light amplification. So it seems they must be coupled to the scope whether that is a built in scope like a thermal or a NV scope with IR light.

@Mellor "But those clauses only apply to telescopic sights that include the above. No mention of separate devices"

That is my point. The section of the 1990 act that deals with them states;

"telescope sights with a light beam, or telescope sights with an electronic light amplification device or an infra-red device, designed to be fitted to a firearm"

It doesn't say a light amplification device (whether you include lasers in that or not) on its own. It says telescopic sights with such functions or features.

It's a mess and as I've said from the start I wouldn't commit to a definitive answer either way due to the ambiguity of the issue but if it's read one way it's ok and if read another way it's not.

Cass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120794422#Comment_120794422

An Airsoft is not a firearm so doesn't really fall into any of the categories being discussed above. As such I'd imagine it's not an issue.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120794833#Comment_120794833

I know. The reason for the questioning was hypothetical if it was mounted to a rifle.

Cass

Yeah, you said above. That's grand, just thought I'd mention it while we're talking is all.

I actually have a similar device. Bought it on an Airsoft years and years ago. They're weak and frankly only good for Airsoft.

Begs the question though, what use would one be on a real rifle?

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120794942#Comment_120794942

I agree. I test fitted it to mine to see if it could be seen at 50m to give an idea of where the scope was pointing relative to where the laser was and it couldn’t be seen!

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120794797#Comment_120794797

It doesn't list light beams as a stand alone object/item/etc. It says telescopic sight withlight beams or light amplification

precisely my point in the last paragraph.

it has to be a scope that internally amplifies light. Or has integral “light beam” device.

Cass

So it brings us back to a laser on its own is most likely not an issue as by itself it does "nothing".

I still think they're as useful as a chocolate fireguard. Like a scope they're only good if zeroed to the rifle and once shooting "outside" of your zero they're lose any effectiveness they may have given.

Assuming they're of sufficient power to even be seen at distance at which point your pushing the boundaries of what is, iirc, legal to possess based on my understanding of the limits mentioned at the start of the thread.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120795113#Comment_120795113

Agreed. Not very useful. They are a very “Hollywood” feature. Looks tacticool in film, but even then often makes little practical sense. Snipers aiming with a laser from another building - while looking at the target through a perfectly usable scope.

Makes a bit more sense for unscoped rifles. But better options exist like red dot sights, LPVOs etc. But laser look better on film. They also facilitate the plot device of “bad guys” being made aware the swat team has then surrounded and targeted.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120794949#Comment_120794949

That's a pretty pathetic laser, then. I use in-breech lasers to do an initial boresight on my rifles, they can easily be seen at 50m in daylight. This sort of thing.

As for practical use for aiming lasers, we were issued Crimson Trace lasergrips for our pistols. The things were so strong, I kid you not, we used them to mark targets for helicopters. Never shot at anyone with them, mind, so unsure what it's like not on the range. On a defence weapon, however, you're aiming as much by muscle memory as anything else, but it's not the worst thing to use if you can't get a proper sight picture. Combat tends to dissuade people from range stances.

And, of course, we had infra-red lasers on our rifles, PEQ-2s. Since the standard rifle optics of the time weren't necessarily compatible with NVGs, the PEQ-2s were good enough for shooting with reasonable accuracy at the ranges that any night engagements were likely. (The opposition, of course, couldn't see that well, so things had to be close)

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120797791#Comment_120797791

Maybe it needed to be zero’d?

There are screws for wind age and elevation on it.