Grooming gangs in Ireland targeting girls in care

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772418#Comment_120772418

The same way you lure anyone. Promise them what they are craving (attention and the prospect of being loved in this case).

Of course people know what’s going on and facilitate it all. It’s a business and there is a profit to be made

hayrabit

about that "2015 Research" upthread; between Whites / Asians / Blacks & Asian British , the "perpetrators" of.. the "group and gang-based child sexual exploitation", number, in total, 73% of the not referenced (UK I'm guessing) populous

what about the other 27% ?? ......

...... what's their ethnicity?? Roma? , Albino? , Sorta Ricans?

and, if it is Britain in question in that highly dubious non-linked report, well "Whitey" is still in majority there, so.. A lot more than 42% of Britain's population is White - must be at least two thirds of the population if not more

also, on that same post: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770355/#Comment_120770355 , it mentions the "Urban Myth" as being a "Black Man / Muslim centric one" .....

,..... news to me . there is no "myth" I'm aware of here concerning specifically Blacks and Muslims.. and if there is a "myth" based on such perpetrators having a distinct ethnicity/religion, aint it an "Asian" one ? :confused: And, far as I'm aware <re the latter>, there aint no myth - it's true !

Count Dracula

It looks like an article written by the journalist JACK POWER alleging that teenagers living under the protection of a semi state quango TULSA are being exploited by nonces.

It is very vaguely written and no evidence is provided of any significance.

The tone of the article is insinuating that the nonces are organised and working as a gang. The article is accompanied by a sinister photograph of a nobody shaded in a shadowy silhouette.

I am on the fence for the time being.

CreadanLady

What's the take away message that you are suggesting the writer is trying to give us?

That Tuslsa is secretly controlled and run by peadaphiles?

TokenJogger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772134#Comment_120772134

Well sure just have a search for Jack Straw and Asian Grooming Gangs (in Rocdale) then

That's reported and documented by the BBC, Sky News, the crown prosecution, courts service and prison service

Notmything

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771718#Comment_120771718

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771973#Comment_120771973

Then you're talking about detaining them. Whether you like it or not that's how the system is.

Remember this, there are 6000 children in care, only 4-500 are in state care. The ones in the article would be to the extreme end in terms of behaviour.

The other side is it costs an ave of 300 grand to keep a kid in the care system. Most of the kids in care are in private/charitable services as well.

Not excusing what's going on, but the reality the system is not designed to stop kids from leaving their centre, and the staff are not allowed or trained to prevent them.

Notmything

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772438#Comment_120772438

Security? These are houses, not prisons. You're talking like there are fences, barbed wire, security huts.

These are normal houses in normal estates, staffed by care workers not prison officers.

There are a handful of secure units for children in Ireland not including oberstown.

CreadanLady

But are the ones in houses not just foster homes? I thought that in direct state care meant that they'd be housed in a residential institution run directly by Tuslsa or the HSE.

Still, there should be some sort of security there to control comings and goings.. if Tuslsa are aware that this carry on is happening then they have a duty of care to prevent it and that basically meant putting in security measures. And it's not too control the kids as such, it's for their own good to prevent peadaphiles from getting to them.

You could say that security is as much if not more about keep peadaphiles out than keeping children in.

Arthur Pants

If we could keep these paedo's out of the country it would be even better.

CreadanLady

Most peados are Irish born and raised. But not all. But there is the worry that the ones that operate as organised gangs could be shall we say o trasns na dtonnta as was the case in the Yorkshire thing.

That is, aside from the Catholic church which was by far the biggest most prolific organised peadaphile ring in Irish history

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120775515#Comment_120775515

You're 100% right, importing paedos when we have enough of our own. The last thing our homegrown nonces need is competition 🤦

The exploitation of children in care is unfortunately all too common. They are often damaged and chasing any form of affection and validation they can grab hold of. All too often that is exploited by utter bàstards with a knowledge of the care system.

The notion that kids in Tusla care are in some kind of institution? It belies a lack of knowledge around just how the care system works. As someone posted earlier, outside of Oberstown, there are only a couple of secure units in the country.

They are for very damaged, and highly reactive, often violent children. The majority of young people in care are with foster families or low capacity group homes. They aren't locked away, or under prison style restrictions. Children in care aren't prisoners or subject to detention and managing the activities of adolescents is a challenge at the best of times.

The article is very vague in its assertions and it's one the is almost like flypaper in its stickiness. It draws a parallel with Rotherham and the racist baggage that carries. There is a huge amount of work that needs to be done to protect young people at risk, that has long been known.

The absconding and exploitation of children in care was a focus of work of the current head of the HSE in the days he worked at the coalface in the MWHB.

Notmything

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120775495#Comment_120775495

No, foster care is just that, overwhelming majority of kids are in this area.

The other area is residential, these are homes for 1-4 kids. Most are run by private or charitable organisations. They are meant to be as close to a normal home as possible. No security, just care staff.

In these houses children can be allowed come and go like at home. Some will have different curfews of have limits on how long they can go out for. But there is nothing to stop them running away/absconding. Staff have less rights than parents have in how to control the children.

Then you have secure/special care. These are run and staffed by Tusla, like mini prisons, security locked doors and that. There are 3 (I think) with 17? beds. After that you have oberstown.

Most kids who run away to meet adults are meeting people they already know. The article naturally went for the most sensational stories. These kids are coming from often horrendous backgrounds and the only relationship they might have is with an abuser/dealer so they want to go back to what they know.

Before anyone criticises the system which is not fit for purpose go work in residential care to see what the reality is really like.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120775152#Comment_120775152

OK, if the staff are not allowed to detain them like a parent would, then why is the State blamed when bad things happen to them?

We can't blame the State / HSE / TUSLA, if we at the same time don't give the staff powers to act.

Notmything

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120775900#Comment_120775900

Because its always the state's fault. Ultimately they're in the care of the state even if the state has abidicated responsibility to the private sector. The care sector runs on rules and regulations set by the state.

We put kids in care but don't put enough resources into getting them the help they need.

We take kids out of a family but then don't do anything to fix the reason they were removed in the first place.when the kid turns 18 they are sent home to where they were deemed to be so at risk they had to be removed.

There are kids in care who were born to parents who were in care themselves.

As bad as Tusla are, and they are bad, they're trying to undo 30 years of disjointed and haphazard work.

By we I mean the state.

CreadanLady

The state like to outsource their duties to third parties like religious orders, charities, and cute hurr operators because it puts them at arms length when things go wrong. Basically, it is an opportunity to outsource the blame.

minersrepite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120770427#Comment_120770427

42 percent are white, where's the majority? You're ignoring over representation. Its pertinent because the gardai/state will have no problem arresting Irish nationals for these crimes as that's not politically incorrect and will cause no media/NGO outcry. The report into Rotherham specifically stated that the issue wasn't addressed because police/social workers/politicians didn't want to be called racist. You're deliberately obfuscating by stating absolute rather than per capita statistics. The majority of abusers in China are Chinese also, great point. The exact same discourse dynamic can be seen in this thread already. Anyone who raises the issue is far right. Great stuff altogether.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120775899#Comment_120775899

If it is Muslim / Pakistani grooming gangs involved in this then it needs to clamped down fast. The north of England have had and still have major problems with this. This is one element of multiculturalism that Ireland does not need.

Notmything

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120784892#Comment_120784892

Read the article, nothing to suggest it's people from the group you named.

At least one of the cases referenced the males were all white Irish as it's fairly well known about in the care sector.

The majority of those involved in the exploitation of children in care are already known to them, either as family, friends of family, or as their dealer/pimp.

Why does this have to be about race/religion/skin colour? Or is the exploitation of children only an issue when it's done by people from a specific group

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120785475#Comment_120785475

plenty to suggest it. The Rotherham scandal mentioned and girls in care targeted by an organised group of men involving taxis and takeaways. Do you know anything about the Rotherham scandal or the countless others across the north of England ? That was their exact MO

your final paragraph was exactly what the media and police said in England for decades when they covered it all up. A certain group were disproportionately involved in a major way in the organised grooming of young girls for sex - so yes it’s important to ask and not worrying about offending anyone as if it is true then it’s only the kids in care who will suffer

Notmything

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120785770#Comment_120785770

England is not Ireland. Right now the overwhelming majority of kids being abused in Ireland are being abused by members of their family. Look at the biggest child abuse scandals in recent years and it's evident that we have plenty of homegrown child abusers.

I've worked in the sector for years so am well aware of what the reality is. Despite that article there is no evidence of any mass cover up of child abuse. Report after report shows the levels.

Both your posts only focus on abuse perpetrated by people of a certain religion or skin colour. You don't seem at all concerned about the risk of the abusers being white.

miamee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120784892#Comment_120784892

Do you not think it should be clamped down on regardless of the colour or religion of the perpetrators? Or are we giving white Christian abusers a free pass now? There are vulnerable children being taken advantage of, the colour of the men doing it doesn't make the abuse any worse, it's all awful.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120788835#Comment_120788835

30 years ago the same thing was said in England and everyone looked the other way allowing the problem to grow out of control. If it is sensationalist reporting - as it definitely drew parallels - then that is wrong of the journalist. I was merely asking if this is the case.

not a fair comment to make at all at the end btw. You should be able to ask questions freely about difficult issues without being put down. All you had to say was “I don’t actually know” or a yes or no answer.

Notmything

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120793529#Comment_120793529

No one is "looking the other way" tho. There are plenty of reports that highlight the risks and ongoing abuse of children in care.

Nobody put you down, merely pointed out that you, like others, seem more concerned about the potential skin colour of the men, rather than the fact they are abusing children.

Right now, based on the evidence from numerous court cases, the majority of child abuse rings are built around the family unit and it's wider circle. I'm not aware of any grooming rings like Rotherham but not to say there isn't.

The issue is going down the route of it can only be non white doing this when the evidence is showing otherwise.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120794229#Comment_120794229

Of course most paedos will be Irish given the demography of the country. But in the UK for the specific Type of organised grooming Pakistani men are vastly over represented. With the mention of taxis and takeaways I strongly believe it’s them. The truth will come out eventually and you can guarantee O’Gorman and Tulsa will be worse than useless - even more useless than their UK counterparts

im focusing on this as this is what the initial post was about.