TFI - Passenger Information

KD345

I know it has been mentioned in other threads, but the quality of public transport information has dropped severely in recent months under TFI.

Timetables

There are now multiple bus operators in Dublin yet there is still no single place for passengers to consult timetables online.

Dublin Bus, Go-Ahead and other operators all host their own timetables on their websites with different formats in use. The TFI website which did host all timetables online, a-b.ie, removed them last month without any replacement. Dublin Bus recently revamped their website, the old timetable page is now a series of difficult to navigate PDF files, and like Go-Ahead, requires multiple clicks and scrolling to open. For example, if you live in Skerries you have to open the Dublin Bus website to check the timetable for the 33 and then open the Go-Ahead website for the 33A. Both are in different formats.

Hundreds of bus stops across the city carry incorrect timetables. Almost every BusConnects route has changed their timetable since their launch but none of the timetable panels on the street or online have been updated. Some of it is disguised because of the high frequency of the routes, but where the spine splits and where frequency drops off-peak it becomes an issue. The timetables for the new BusConnects routes C1, C2, C3, C4, C5, C6, G1, G2, H1, H2, H3, N4, N6, 60, are all incorrect online and on street. 

There are three new routes launching this weekend, the W4, W61 and W62, it’s a big improvement for parts of West Dublin and Kildare. These routes have been planned for years, but as I’m typing this, just days away from launch, there are no timetables on the TFI or Go-Ahead website for passengers to consult, only a brochure with a map and a ‘frequency table’ - note that some of these routes at times have a 60 minute frequency. 

Where once there was a Luas timetable online, that too has been removed from the TFI site. There can be over a 20 minute gap off peak between trams but no timetable is published. 

Despite much fanfare, many of the new Local Link services don’t have any timetables on street. The rail stations where these services connect contain no information and many of the rural villages and places they serve have no bus stops or timetables. Some of these services only run a handful of departures daily.

I recently contacted an operator to highlight a timetable issue on street, they replied to say they had tried to get it resolved with NTA/TFI but were unsuccessful. They too were frustrated at the situation. 

Who is responsible for the upkeep of timetables online and on street where thousands of passengers rely on information? This is a basic element of public transport. To give credit to Dublin Bus, their on street timetable were well managed and updated.

The information provided on street on the new Bus Connects style timetables is inadequate and a backwards step. For example, the attached photo shows stop 400 on Pearse Street. A passenger here once asked did I know which bus goes to Leixlip. Four of the routes stopping here serve Leixlip but it is not mentioned on the panel. Neither is Palmerstown, Liffey Valley, or Lucan - all key destinations. You’ll also note Route C3 lists its destination as ‘Hayfield’ instead of Maynooth. This format replaced the old Dublin Bus style timetable which gave a breakdown of areas served and the time of travel. How can this be presented to passengers as an improvement?

Social Media

The TFI brand is supposed to be the ‘consumer’ facing side of the NTA but their social media activity mainly consists of promotional information. Many customer queries are ignored or passed on to an operator. We are now at a place where a passenger will contact an operator on Twitter for information only to be directed to TFI, then passed back to the operator or ignored altogether. This is happening every day on social media.

TFI Live App

There are serious issues with this app and the information provided. 

Cancelled buses are not showing, curtailed services are not detailed, some routes are missing from stops and the ‘real time’ countdown is not always matching the on street display. Nobody from TFI has explained what the issues are.

I can’t understand how they are getting it so wrong. The funding is there from government, the rollout of BusConnects is at a snails pace so it’s not like they are overwhelmed with the changes. It feels like nobody at the NTA/TFI actually cares about the passenger.

What is the solution here?

It’s so frustrating to see people attempt to make the switch to public transport but then encountering problems. The NTA have improved so many areas of public transport - simplifying fares, better operating hours, new branding etc. but they are failing massively on basic passenger information and seem to be accountable to nobody.

LXFlyer

Excellent post.

As I’ve said before, the NTA have bitten off more than they can chew in my view.

They clearly don’t have the staff to do this properly.

You can add route 6 to the list of routes with incorrect times on street, along with all of the GAI routes.

Citrus_8

If there would be at least a few PT enthusiasts in the NTA, even if a low staff number those enthusiasts would drive the pace and wouldn't count their work hours... Staffing issues are everywhere, but it seems but it's just a standard public institution with their own weird burocratic view to the world.

Xterminator

No professional should do for free a job that should be paid for. Its reducing demand for your own profession and setting a terrible precedent - the next project will be expected to be completed with similar resourcing - it creates a vicious circle of under-resourcing, and over estimating capabilities.

Thank you's don pay the bills. Make the employer hire a couple of people or at least pay overtime. Otherwise projects will not be delivered on time and to a high standard. Let the NTA stand before the Dail committee and explain themselves.

Remember if you work for nothing you will never be out of work. NTA website/app etc are not like a hobby/GAA website you create & maintain as a volunteer. If i don't value my own time and skills - why should my employer?

dfx-

They were set up as a somewhat hands off regulator for the operator, dictating what operators should do and distributing funding. And to penalise them for failure, all things that can be done remotely from an office.

Now they are at the stage of taking ownership of it all, hands on. And it takes a lot more responsibility and knowing what you are doing on the ground, not in an office. And it is going...badly.

Arguably the time when they committed to doing something off-plan was when they committed to no further BusConnects services until the staffing problem is alleviated but that took government questioning. It was a bit like when reality hit home on The Plan.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120747950#Comment_120747950

Well, your reply is surely very pragmatic and simplified - no ambition. No secret that many people in public institutions get a good package, but are very unmotivated. They lack of a 'can do' attitude which is often found in private sector which are generally much more effective and efficient, and make things done rather than dragging their time throughout the day.

coylemj

There seems to be a race to the bottom in terms of antipathy if not downright contempt towards the travelling public.

Aircoach is a good example. They used to have live (GPS) tracking on their coaches, that's gone a long time ago. They recently launched a new mobile app which allows you to store your favourite stops and you can view departures from any of those stops starting at a given time. But, every so often, they cancel multiple departures on popular routes like the 700 (Leopardstown) and those cancelled services will still show in the departures listing on the mobile app. So basically they developed and pushed out an app which tells the would-be traveller that every service runs on time and there are never any cancellations.

Xterminator

As someone who has regularly upskilled and trained in new technologies for decades i applaud your diagnosis of my lack of ambition.

however i will say it again, in plain words. if you don't take pride in and value your own work, no employer is ever going to do so. that is my experience having worked with multinationals, Irish start ups and many partners. i have never worked in the public sector. cant answer to that.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120754928#Comment_120754928

Not sure, but it looks that you're replying to my post? If so, I was specifically talking about the public institutions/agencies and comparing how private ones are different. So arguing on my point and giving an example from another context isn't worth it as we're talking about the different things.

JupiterKid

The new TFI live app is a total disgrace - it has consistently got any bus times when I was checking wrong - usually by 7 or 8 minutes or more. Completely unreliable.

Busses supposedly due in a few mins also dropping off the app too.

The old Dublin Bus app had its issues, but it was usually very reliable. This is a serious decline in quality of service and it is simply not acceptable.

TFI - your customers deserve far better than this complete shambles.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120754778#Comment_120754778

"Aircoach is a good example. They used to have live (GPS) tracking on their coaches, that's gone a long time ago."

The GPS tracking is still present, as shown with bus times. However it seems Aircoach just don't make it available on their website or app.

Esel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120755822#Comment_120755822

Next Bus Dublin is a good app.

harringtonp

@KD345 For example, if you live in Skerries you have to open the Dublin Bus website to check the timetable for the 33 and then open the Go-Ahead website for the 33A. Both are in different formats.

While https://yourstop.info is mainly geared towards next buses now at a stop there is a schedule mode which can be used for stops previously viewed or starred. Taking your example of the 33 and 33A in Skerries if you're wanting to head into the city this coming Friday evening this is what you would see.

New schedules are checked for nightly and a new download covers (in theory anyway) the latest schedules for 5 covered operators

halfpastneverr

More TFI bashing:

My taxsaver leapcard stopped working this evening when I tried to tap on the bus home (luckily driver knew me and let me on cos I don't carry coins anymore really!) so I tried to go through the leap site to order a replacement. The site wouldn't recognize the email address I used to register it about 10 years ago, so I rang the number for taxsaver cards listed on the site. The recorded message proclaimed 'This number is no longer in existence, please see website for new one' the same website that directed me to the number no longer in existence!

Eventually found the number for regular leap support and got through to a very helpful lady who said my email address wasn't taken in their migration, but she managed to find the username I registered with to re-register my accound and my card and order a replacement that way.

Such a frustrating experience dealing with something that should be straightforward. The poxy card should just be stored on my phone or watch anyway, to begin with, and not need to be carried around until it stops working!

breezy1985

I would love if the bus stops on my route had incorrect time tables.

About 75% of the stops on my route have no signs or markings at all.

Surprised by the issue of different operators using different apps though. The TFI live app has multiple operators at my stop.

KD345

This morning once again highlighted the failures with the TFI Live App. Many people left their house in bad weather and consulted the app which was showing their bus counting down as live. The TFI response was that the operators 'needed to cancel their services'. The constant passing the buck just frustrates passengers. This was on top of the contradicting messaging from operators and TFI as to when services were resuming

I have no doubt this morning was a stressful experience for all at the transport operators and TFI, but you'd hope lessons were learned and that they are better prepared for the next weather event. Instead of having multiple media spokespeople from operators appearing on news outlets it would be far better if we had one voice and one point of contact for passengers. This is what was promised by the TFI brand.

Previously when we had severe weather events the Dublin Bus website had a live route by route breakdown of where services were curtailed to and when expected to resume. It was simple and it worked. Technology has advanced so much since then but yet we are left with the shambles of a 'Live' app which gives out incorrect information when people need it most.

MICKEYG

No excuse to show busses as live when they have been cancelled.

They are either there or are not there. Passengers need to be able to trust the app.

icdg

For those lamenting the old Dublin Bus timetables, remember them?

• Unlike every other form of transport known to humanity they gave the departure point, not the destination, on their heading.
• Showed only departure times from the terminus meaning that unless you were actually at the terminus they were pretty much useless without local knowledge of how long the bus was going to get to that particular stop at that particular time of day.

Personally I think the TFI format is mostly an improvement, though I agree listing intermediate destinations would be very helpful (that is what the spine maps are supposed to be for, though).

coylemj

ICDG posted:

Personally I think the TFI format is mostly an improvement, though I agree listing intermediate destinations would be very helpful (that is what the spine maps are supposed to be for, though).

The mobile app lists all stops when you bring up a service - is your comment above in reference to the web interface? If you click on 'Filter Stops' and tick 'All stops', you will get every stop in the listing.

icdg

No, the paper timetable format.

Edit: and now that I look at one, the primary intermediate destinations are on it - down the bottom. Maybe the ones at the bus stop the OP looked at are different.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121449629#Comment_121449629

The TFI format timetables at stops are awful as they use stop names for destinations and at many stops there are no linear maps and consequently no intermediate locations listed.

The 18 eastward shows it going “Towards Pine Road” and no other route information.

I had to look Pine Road up on Google Maps to find out where it was.

The DB format always had intermediate locations listed and proper destination descriptions!

KD345

It looks like some movement is finally happening in this area as the NTA sign a 10 year contract with Capita.

It’s unclear what they will be responsible for, but you’d assume it will be all customer enquiries on social, email and telephone. It’s long overdue!

Let’s hope it also includes providing accurate timetable information on street and online, and updated real time information on the app and screens when passengers need it most.

https://www.capita.com/news/capita-signs-new-customer-experience-contract-irelands-national-transport-authority

Buffman

Just what the system needed, yet another chef in the kitchen.👨‍🍳

So they've created such a mess they're spending €40 million to throw yet another name onto the pile with the mass/mess of quangos, semi-states, departments and privates to try and bring some of them back together under the one roof in some way.

'Capita Ireland'. They should have called it 'Cap Ita Eire' but I guess those initials were already taken by the previous crowd.

Hopefully adding this new lot into the mix with BE, IE, DB, CIE, DOT, GAI, LUAS, NTA, TFI and all the rest will fix everything. 😂🤣

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510717#Comment_121510717

Eh, this is quiet normal with well run transport systems around the world.

A person shouldn't need to know if they need to contact DB or GAI if there bus doesn't turn up. Having one integrated support center makes sense.

Same in London, if you have problems with a Bus, you don't contact one of the dozens of private companies who operate buses in London, you just contact the TFL support center.

L1011

Capita are incompetent at everything so this is NOT a good thing

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510717#Comment_121510717

Emm, what's your suggestion? To keep everything for one operator and have a risk of drivers to shut the whole city when they are on industrial action? NTA do make mistakes, but at least they are regulating the wild west market.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510907#Comment_121510907

Ahh, yes, the Capita support centre, some lad in India who's done the "Irish accent course" will be glad to take your call and look up the website and read what it says to you.

Source: https://www.capita.com/about-capita#3925188384-3924267579

Most of our business sites are in the UK, Republic of Ireland and Northern Europe, complemented by operations and delivery centres in India, South Africa and the Middle East.

ExoPolitic

The bus stops in Waterford have all the wrong timetables, and even show routes from companies that have since stopped operating... Multiple times I've had to tell people here that are waiting, there will be no bus, at all.

Buffman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121511024#Comment_121511024

You make it sound like we've industrial action every other week when it's actually a rarity, we're not France.

On reflection, if it meant that the bus stops actually had correct timetables on them, that passengers didn't require a level of local knowledge akin to what a Taxi driver needs to know to pass the 'Area Knowledge' exam to know where a bus actually goes, that the 'real time information' was actually real, and that the operators/regulators/everyone else involved didn't endlessly pass the buck of responsibility between each other in a never ending cycle, then I'd actually be willing to suffer the odd bit of industrial action disruption.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510907#Comment_121510907

Ye, but TfL is TfL though, an actual local government body whose only purpose is transport, not some private contractor like Capita whose main purpose is to make profit, which in this case means spending the least amount possible of that €40mil to provide the actual 'service' and pocketing the rest. To be comparable to TfL, it would have to be NTA or TFI spending that €40mil in-house to combine all customer service under one of their own roofs. (Something I'd be much more in favour of.)

All that's probably going to happen now is what was one of the last few somewhat 'reliable' sources of info, the transport companies own customer service and social media, will be closed and replaced by yet another company who more than likely won't have up to date information and will still have to go back and forth and query everything with the operators and become yet another layer of the 'pass the buck of responsibility' cycle.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514402#Comment_121514402

For whatever reason, that’s not how the NTA work. They have a tiny number of permanent employees, backed up by a small number of contractors hired through the likes of Accenture (not necessarily Accenture though) who manage all the tenders and oversight for the outsourced services: Capita for customer contact, Cubic for Leap Operations, someone else for Leap design, GAI and DB for buses, Transdev for Luas, someone else for RTIS, someone else shortly for the Leap NGT contract, etc, etc. I’m sure it looks great on the books but it means there are almost zero vested employees, just people who work for someone who has a contract with NTA which is managed by someone whose employer also has a contract with the NTA.

Unlike hiring a contractor directly which gives you some flexibility to reduce headcount, this arrangement is all via medium term contracts. Also they prefer to award operational tenders to a single entity whose job it is to manage all the subcontracting entities so they have no direct contact with the people or companies doing most of the work. If they want to talk to an employee of the subcontracting entity, it goes via the lead contractor. If they want work done outside of the scope of the tender, both the lead and sub contractors will charge for the work. It’s a horribly inefficient system but they have no alternative because they can’t or won’t hire permanent staff.

LuckyLloyd

The general setup used is not unique to the NTA, though it may have variations specific to them. It is standard operating practice across the Public Sector. You will have a skeleton of core staff permanently employed by the Public body or government department with delivery capability and resourcing supplemented by contracting entities.

The objective is not just resourcing flexibility, but also a delineation and obfuscation of responsibility. Even if that is not overtly stated.