Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743033#Comment_120743033

Its not about how rich the people on board are its about how unusual the story is. Its different to all the normal news of the day. You just want to project your own hatred of well off people onto it. Thats your issue to be fair and not the medias.

It would be all over the news the world over even if a skint heroin addict with holes in his shoes and not two pennies to rub together was the only one on board.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743111#Comment_120743111

The sinking of the Titanic is the gift that keeps on giving.

And the same logic could apply to the Titanic itself. A couple of years after it sank, a war that killed 20 million people started.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743570#Comment_120743570

I'd say if it didn't surface 2-4 hours after it lost comms, it'll never surface.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743453#Comment_120743453

After rescue116 they hadn't much luck with the body search. That's closer to land and a much more mobilised search.

I don't think anybody is taking this search too seriously, just being seen to do the right thing while the media make money from it.

Yellow_Fern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743620#Comment_120743620

This is true. the proof is the coverage of that poor 5 YO Moroccan boy trapped in the well. Loads and loads of coverage.

data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACAAAAAgAQAAAABbAUdZAAAAFklEQVR4AWP4DwTkEgcMeJiJICixAwBrbGeZRnmr8AAAAABJRU5ErkJggg==

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743740#Comment_120743740

I'd sort of assume it's being treated pretty seriously as a training exercise for a military sub, such as the Kursk.

joe40

Is there any engineering reason why the craft could not have had some kind of tether to it's ship. At least they would be able to locate it now.

Hooked

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743620#Comment_120743620

The only one projecting here is you. I don't measure wealth in Euros/Dollars - I'm far more intelligent than that.

I'm just astounded by the stupidity of those on board. And the reaction to it.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743764#Comment_120743764

Probably too likely to get snagged on some of the Titanic wreckage.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743764#Comment_120743764

Very difficult to manage a 4,000m cable tethered to a submersible. the weight alone would be very prohibitive, and then there would be the possibility of it becoming entangled in any of the small props/thrusters, or the wreckage itself

Then whatever the cable was made of, it would need to withstand the immense pressures at such depth, so it's not something you're going to pick up in Radioshack!! and would most likely have to be custom made for such a purpose, which would make it prohibitively expensive!!

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743525#Comment_120743525

here's a decent podcast episode about the chap who basically invented the algorithm for narrowing the search area based on ocean conditions, atmospheric conditions and body/vessel size.

https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/against-the-rules/the-art-of-the-untold-story

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743347#Comment_120743347

From an interview with OceanGate by CBS News:

KYLE: These triple weights, we call ‘em, are hydraulically driven. So we operate ‘em inside, doesn’t take any electricity, can be done manually, and those drop away and gain us a lot of buoyancy. Dropping that much weight onto the sea floor means the sub starts rising.

KYLE: Ah, so, we’ve got these weights here on the side, these are roll weights, we can actually roll the sub and those come off, and that gains us some buoyancy to come back to the surface. These are pipes that sit on a shelf that juts out from either side of the sub, held in place only by gravity. If everyone inside the sub shifts their weight to one side, the sub tips enough to let these pipes roll off.

KYLE: These bags down below, we drop those off using motors and electric fingers.

OK. But what if the electronics go out, and the hydraulics fail, and everyone inside has passed out unconscious? KYLE: There’s fusible links within these that actually can dissolve and come back in time if it’s drop off.

Fusible links are self-dissolving bonds. After 16 hours in seawater, those bonds disintegrate, the weight bags drop off automatically, and you go back to the surface.

And even those four systems aren’t the end of it. The sub’s thrusters can also push it up; the pilot can jettison the sub’s legs as dead weight; and there’s even an airbag they can inflate to provide buoyancy.

All told, that’s seven different ways to get the sub back up to the surface.

Source: https://unsungscience.com/news/back-to-titanic-part-1/

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743853#Comment_120743853

And the fact that all of those systems appear to have not worked, Implosion or entanglement becomes the only viable theory at this point.

Feisar

Christ, imagine looking at your son suffocating to death and knowing you're the one that did that to him.

Odelay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743879#Comment_120743879

And if they were entangled they would be able to communicate the situation to the surface. Looks like only one likely scenario could have happened.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743749#Comment_120743749

I'm not there is anything they can actually do though other than go through the motions.

Even if it's sitting at the bottom snagged, or suffering mechanical failure, I'm not sure if they have the gear available to get to it.

el Fenomeno

Had never considered that even in the unlikely event that they are still alive, it's likely that on top of the cramped conditions, the low temperature and the obvious panic/desperation - they are likely in pitch dark conditions on top of that without a sliver of light. Absolutely terrifying thought.

josip

The BBC with some more insights

A submarine search and rescue expert in Australia, Frank Owen, tells the BBC his “confidence went up by an order of magnitude” when he heard reports of banging being detected by floating sound detectors.

“There's a couple of reasons for that,” he explains. “Firstly, on board this craft is a retired French navy diver. He would know the protocol for trying to alert searching forces… on the hour and the half hour you bang like hell for three minutes.”

He says the sound signal being picked by a buoy close to the surface also suggests that the sub itself could be near or at the surface.

“Below about 180 metres, the water temperature drops very rapidly,” he explained. “That creates a layer that the [sonar signal] bounces off. But if you’re in the same depth water it tends to go quite straight.”

Even if Titan is at the surface, it will be difficult to spot. Very little of the small, white vessel sits above the water.

But using an array of sound-detecting buoys to triangulate the signal could narrow down its position.

Run Forest Run

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743660#Comment_120743660

I don't understand the fascination about the Titanic wreck site myself.

It's a big ship that tragically sank a long time ago... just one of countless tragedies in the history of mankind. And, for me at least, that wreck is a grave-site of all those poor souls that perished. I would have no interest in going site-seeing, particularly if it involves a stupendous level of personal risk. Leave the ship alone, and let those people rest in peace. I think we have enough footage of it at this point, what else is there to discover about a big rusty old ship at the bottom of the ocean?

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743879#Comment_120743879

They needed the communication to guide them to the wreck, once that was lost they would have had no idea where it was.

Really there's only one scenario, everything was fine until they got to a particular depth, then nothing.

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120744049#Comment_120744049

Just thinking of that, and the possibility it has surfaced and is waiting discovery

Obviously a lot has been made of them being bolted in from the outside - but really it'd make little difference if they could get out. Where would they go? Ok, they'd get fresh air, but with no water they'll die soon anyway. Opening a hatch could even cause water to come in and they'd sink/drown.

It seems strange it has no emergency signal beacon to indicate its position in that case. Seems a really useful thing to have?

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120744142#Comment_120744142

It seems strange it has no emergency signal beacon to indicate its position in that case

Yes, a PLB (Personal Locator Beacon) can be got for as little as €307, and the battery is typically good for 24 hours once activated.

https://marineparts.ie/ocean-signal-plb1-the-worlds-smallest-plb/

For roughly double the PLB money you can get an EPIRB (Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon), and they are typically good for about 72 hours of broadcast.

https://marineparts.ie/samyung-float-free-epirb/

Both systems transmit the signal up to satellites in orbit, so not sure how feasible it would be to get a signal out of a very thick capsule designed for extreme pressure.

But in that situation, a radio wave signal might make it out either from a handheld VHF radio, or an AIS transponder, all of which can be picked up for relatively small money in any marine chandlers

https://marineparts.ie/the-worlds-smallest-personal-locating-ais-man-overboard-device-with-integrated-dsc./

Either way you'd imagine they would or should have had some form of beacon like above... small money and they take up no space at all (I have an Ocean Signal PLB1 and its about the size of a pack of cigarettes)

josip

I think they're on the surface, and will be found in time. Oceangate will never send a sub anywhere again. But they will make enough money selling the movie rights. Fingers crossed.

magicbastarder

what makes you think that a successful ascent is more likely than catastrophic pressure loss?

Danzy

If they knew exactly to the inch where they were, knew on Sunday and there was no impediment,ie tangled in Titanic wreckage etc

They still wouldn't be able to get them out in time.

Gusser09

Time running out now. You can only imagine what is going through the minds of the sailors. Scary scary stuff. Probably worse than death itself. They'd know themselves that the chances of being found in time are tiny.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120744242#Comment_120744242

With a thorough amount of engineering it could have been designed to be a lot safer, though not safe in comparison to most methods of travel. OceanGate boasts of the vessel being free of tethering but as I said before a tethering and ducting system would make some difference. An inspection & retrieval would in theory have been made more possible. It would have needed a large vessel to launch and winch though. Some of ye laughed at this idea, sadly that’s a smidgeen of the same mentality of the guy in charge of this operation.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743033#Comment_120743033

Yes. War, famine and poverty are still novel news stories.

The Titanic, mini subs and races against time are old hat.

Or is it the other way around.

Strong and Faithful

Even if everything went right you definitely wouldn't want to have the slightest bit of claustrophobia on that mission. Scary way to die.

Another thing I don't quiet get is the porthole is tiny. You'd see very little out of it you'd imagine. And everyone taking turns. It also seems a very uncomfortable sub, sitting on the floor and very little privacy.