General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

giveitholly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121280696#Comment_121280696

If they did would one hour really make a difference?

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121280628#Comment_121280628

Utd put up a statement mentioning it on their website a while back it seems. It just said;

"The unusual start time was agreed following consultation between the clubs, the broadcaster and local authorities."

A bit vague.

Fitz*

It might be something to do with the clocks changing that day? Sky are showing games at 1.00 pm and 3.30 pm that day, an hour earlier than usual.

Maybe something to do with international timezones too, to fit in the US with the NFL on a Sunday, and they can show more live sport that way.

Kiith

Tonali banned for 10 months it seems.

McFly85

10 months is very light if he has in fact bet on games that he participated in, especially when the automatic sentence is 3 years.

eigrod

PL coming down hard on Everton apparently

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/10/25/everton-premier-league-12-point-deduction-ffp-punishment/

Kiith

1 charge against Everton = 12 points deduction.

115 against City = relegation to Vanarama league?

eigrod

I think even with a 12 point deduction, Everton would stay up. A reflection on how bad at least 3 other teams are currently.

Widdensushi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121282852#Comment_121282852

I don't think they would,, they were four points above the drop last season.

DAngelo Bailey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121282435#Comment_121282435

Everton have been taking the piss for years now it would seem an appropriate punishment. They've stayed up by breaking financial rules at the expense of several other teams who have obeyed the rules.

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121282903#Comment_121282903

But without DCL for most of the season. They've also added Danjuma and Beto so at least they have some cover this season.

McFly85

Realistically then Everton will need around 50 points to be safe, or about 11th place last season. It’s a tall order with the squad they have imo.

rob316

there will be a bit of sympathy as they are a mess even after all the money spent but what if they had won the league through an unfair financial advantage, you'd want the book thrown at them. Hi Man City

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121283245#Comment_121283245

to me there is a big difference between them.

While Everton are accused of breaking the rules, they have actually accounted for everything, publicly.

They are accused of breaking the acceptable losses figure, because in their accounts they state that they have.

But Everton claim their Covid impacted losses are basically the exact figure they would need to go from their official loss to the Covid adjusted loss that comes in under the FFP figure. What I find odd about this is this was dealt with a year ago, and the PL said it was fine, when they submitted them. So i don't know why it is a problem now.

Yes, it is bizarre that Everton had a higher covid loss than anyone else in the league, like twice as high as the next or something like that.... but it was previously accepted.

City, on the other hand, are accussed of lieing in their accounts, for several years. Making up revenues, lieing about the source of funds, and obstucting and lieing to the investigators.

Both should have the book thrown at them if guilty, and City should be stripped of their titles.

With Everton though, if they are guulty their guilt can arguably be seen as directly contributing to the relegation of teams the last two seasons. If they get a points deduction this season, that doesn't help Leeds or Southampton. If the still manage to stay up with a points deduction then, to be honest, Everton will consider that a price well paid.

noodler

I know that it's not as financially impactful but Liverpool and Arsenal were robbed of titles at the same time.

Harder to put a cost on it.

Does seem mad the Everton one is so far advanced so soon whilst the other one has gone quiet.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121283696#Comment_121283696

As Mitch said, Everton are being entirely transparent about it all, which allows the process to work as it's supposed to. Meanwhile, City are blocking everything at every turn, and will tie it up with their army of lawyers for years more most likely.

giveitholly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121284067#Comment_121284067

Which really shows what a horrible and corrupt club they are.(City that is).

doc_17

Everton will go down if they are deducted 12 points. That asterisk beside City is getting bigger and bigger….

But Pep said he’d manage them if they got relegated to non league. I hope to see it happen.

Fitz*

I read recently, from a Man City fan, that the other 5 clubs from the big 6 were actively pressing the PL looking for updates about Man City's case.

But it was weird how they mentioned that other 5. It wasn't the other 19, or 26 or whatever number of clubs, that were affected. Why is this?

For example Everton can't exactly be shouting about FFP rules when they have broken them themselves. Maybe there are others like that, and are scare did getting caught.

Tinfoil hat on here, but maybe there are more clubs breaking the rules so are happy to keep quiet about Man City, so that they can continue to do what they are currently doing. Maybe the likes of Leeds and Southampton shouted about Everton loud enough that action had to be brought.

We've seen before that Man City and Newcastle stuck together on voting terms around sponsorship rules, so there is probably a bit more to that kind of stuff going on. Newcastle are probably siding with Man City on this case because Man City sided with them over the recent sponsorship rulings. Politics.

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121284067#Comment_121284067

More fool them.

Mo reward for bong straightforward with the likes of the FA. Then again, they haven't a slush fund to pay a bus load of wigs to drag it out for years.

eagle eye

There's dodgy stuff going on at nearly every club in England. It's been that way for donkeys years. They are nearly as bad as they are over here in Ireland.

As regards Tonali. I don't see any issue with a straight win bet on your own team. Anything else is dodgy and he is rightfully banned if that's the case.

Does anybody know what his bets were?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121284207#Comment_121284207

I mean it's for the same reason only two or three clubs are mentioned in chasing Everton, they're the ones most affected.

Widdensushi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121284249#Comment_121284249

Rubbish, you shouldn't be able to bet on anything your own team is involved in,it would be a slippery slope and open to insider information.

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121284249#Comment_121284249

Italy is down on this sort of thing, especially with unlicensed betting companies or sites, which AFAIK Tonali is linked with. Goes back to organized crime being owed money and having a hold on players in the past, against the law as well as against the sporting rules. That's my understanding of it anyway.

City have bought their way into the pockets of the rule makers in England, between dodgy sponsorship, their subsidizing the regeneration of Eastlands in inner City Manchester, and the links with referees and politicians/embassy officials in the UAE as reported recently. What's reported of course is likely only the tip of the iceberg, I'd be guessing there are huge opportunities in the UK since the Russian money got too hot for people to buy influence, especially since their Tory overlords crashed the economy against the wall with a combination of Brexit and lunatic economics.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121284477#Comment_121284477

And even beyond that, I totally understand the rule of not allowing betting on your own sport even. If you imagine if that rule isn't there, and all these lads are betting on each others games - there's just too much room for lads who are mates on different teams to influence each other, even in tiny ways. If at any time betting changes any aspect of a match, however small, then it feels like an issue. So a catch all 'no betting on football' makes sense to me to just remove any possibility. It's really not too much to ask either.

Widdensushi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121284503#Comment_121284503

I agree, my response was just immediately to the point of view if you bet to win it's ok, the repercussions for the betting agency you place that bet with having an advantage in the market etc, the only thing that works is a complete ban on those involved betting on the sport

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121284444#Comment_121284444

Yeah, like, if they were all so intent on having rules adhered to, surely all clubs would be pursuing all cases. But I'd harbour a guess that they don't.

They only look out for their own interests in these type of scenarios or cases, as we saw in 2020.

I have no knowledge of the clubs thinking, but I would take a guess that Liverpool are not actively pursuing a sanction against Everton. Why would they? It doesn't help them in any positive way, but it would actually garner some negative attention within the fanbase on the red side, let alone the blue side. So why bother? And that's just one example. There's multiple different scenarios like that.

Who was asking questions about Man United's FFP case this year? I doubt Crystal Palace did. Did Aston Villa or West Ham or Arsenal? It's possible.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121284581#Comment_121284581

Indeed, even if betting on yourself to win, it can have a big impact on the game. With both Toney and Tonali seemingly admitting to betting for wins in games they took part in (according to the Guardian), it looks especially bad. Imagine late in a game where you've just come back from a goal down for instance, and the manager wants the team to hold out for a valuable point - what if that player ends up in an attacking position where they can drive on goal, or take the ball to the corner to see out the draw. Without a bet, that player does the logical thing, holds it up, and ends the game. With that bet, maybe they instead think of their self interest and go for goal - maybe they score, and the game is directly impacted, or maybe they give it up and the other team break and score, and again the game is directly impacted. That's just one example, and i'm sure there's many more, of how even a positive bet can directly effect the result. A ban just makes sense for safety.

Fitz*

One thing I don't understand about the whole 'betting in football' thing is how widely accepted owner tips is just taken as a major part of horse racing, but if a football player tells his friend that he's moving to Madrid, he gets a ban from playing. The bookies want the owners tips as part of horse racing but don't want insider info with football. Maybe its the market size that dictates that.

Like personally, what influence does a semi-pro guy from Longford on a 9 month contract have to do with the Champions League quarter final? Surely he can throw 10e on a first goal scorer punt, without reprimand. It's a different story when it comes to his own club/league, and probably country in some cases.

eagle eye

Betting and the Premier League is well linked. You can't turn on the TV for a game without seeing gambling ads. Managers and players appear in these ads.

I don't see anything wrong with betting on your own team to win. Everybody wants to win don't they?

I'd be against betting on anything else in your own teams games.

Betting on other games shouldn't be a problem at all but I believe this isn't allowed?

And players are just as likely as the rest of the world to develop gambling addictions. This should be taken into account when deciding on any punishment.

As regards Manchester City, it's clear their money is buying them not only a massive squad but favours as well. It's next to impossible to stop that.

My point is that there is so much corruption in the game that nobody is in a position to stand up and call them out on it for fear of something at their own club being exposed. And you just know that if there is corruption at any other club that the owners of City know about it. They can buy information just like they can buy officials.