Learning in Automatic before official driving lessons using manual

siobhan2005

My 19 yr old daughter wants to learn to drive. I have an automatic ford Smax. Husband has a manual car but as its a fairly new/good car he is not comfortable with her learning in it yet.

She is also not going to be home much during the college year as she will be other side of country.

She is going to get her learners permit this summer and will possibly be learning away at college, she cant afford a car at the moment so the only practice will be the lessons with the instructor. We will prob end up getting double the lessons as she wont have any car to practice in between lessons.

If I take her out in my automatic, is that going to complicate things when she does start official lessons in a manual? Or would it help her at least with the procedural/observation aspects of learning to drive.

Only other thing I can think of is to pay for a couple of lessons in a manual here and then continue lessons with a different instructor when she is back to college.

...Ghost...

My son took his lessons in a manual and practiced in an auto. He decided to take the test in an auto. I'd have preferred he had the manual test, but the prevalence of autos is much greater than ever before and now electric cars are all auto. Your daughter will likely default to the easier auto if that's what she uses for practice.

bazz26

The bigger problem I see will be that if she takes the test in an auto then her licence will be limited to driving automatic vehicles only. If she takes the test in a manual then your licence allows you to drive both. So given the choice I'd do the test in a manual and then at least she isn't limiting herself in the future.

Sam Russell

I would think it is a mistake for a young person to go for an automatic. A manual test allows greater freedom later compared to an automatic. Learn the gears - it is not hard.

In my opinion, learning the gears should be the first thing to learn, and also learning the low speed positioning of the car using first and reverse gears. I really do mean only using first and reverse (plus the mirrors - learn observation using all the mirrors).

This should be learnt before venturing onto the road competing with the traffic. This will mean, come the test, that the reverse around a corner and the three point turn will be a doddle.

It is like learning to ride a bike - conquer the balance first, then your are away. Heading out into traffic while unsure about balance and disaster will ensue.

Popeleo

I passed my first car test in an automatic as that's what I had at the time. I ended up taking the manual test about 10 years later due to an issue with a work vehicle (and I was tired of paying the 'Stupid Yank auto premium' to hire a car in Europe).

I'm not sure how important a manual test will be in a few years. Practically all electric and hybrid cars are autos and ICE cars will be phased out soon. It depends on if she can afford to keep driving autos until then. Personally, I found that learning in an auto was far better as I could concentrate on the road and other road users rather than doing battle with the clutch and changing gears so often.

I see sheep

All cars should be automatic anyway so I'd say she should learn & take the test in an automatic.

bazz26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120695200#Comment_120695200

Lots of things in this life should be a certain way but they aren't.

zg3409

I would just pay for lessons in a manual with driving instructor. Plan a routine of lessons say one lesson every Saturday and Sunday with doing a test in 3/4/6 months.

You need a clear plan to go from never driven to full licence in a short period or you start to forget the lessons and need to relearn.

Don't get an automatic licence unless really struggling to pass the test as having an automatic licence causes issues say if you need to drive a work van, free company car, or hire a car when on holidays or rent a go car or borrow a friend's car.

hoodie6029

We gave up starting cars with a crank handle a long time ago. Similiarly, the manual gearbox has way overstayed its welcome.

Be grand learning and doing the test in an auto. She can always go back and do the manual test in the future if she needs to.

Driving an auto let’s you concentrate on the more important aspects on driving, road position, hazard awareness etc without worrying if you’re going to put this antiquated stick into second or fourth or cut out when the light goes green.

Best of luck to your daughter learning and fair play to you too for being willing to teach.

tesla_newbie

This isn’t 2003 , automatic cars are plentiful and will become the majority, having a so called “ restricted “ license is no handicap today, ignore the outdated advice

most people never need to drive vans or step in for someone else ( in a manual)

DaveyDave

If she drives your automatic before her manual lessons she will still be able to get a feel for being on the road, what the acceleration and the speed limit feels like, reaction to hazards etc. It will be a big advantage to have before starting lessons officially so she should hopefully have a better time getting the hang of a manual to begin with rather than trying to figure out road positioning while also learning the manual gears at the same time.

If she's having a hard time with manual then switching to auto isn't the end of the world. Any time an automatic license comes up people always bring up car rentals or needing a van or something, it hasn't been an issue for me in the 6 years I've had a licence. With the popularity of hybrid and EVs, chances are she could even borrow a friend or family members car if needed. Rental places have a small number of automatics in their fleet and the likes of GoCar and other large rental companies even have EVs now. There's certainly options available if she needed to drive a different car on an automatic license.

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120699924#Comment_120699924

I regularly drive my dad's car, a manual, my brothers car a manual, most work vans and holiday hire cars are manual. I also drive 2 automatics and one manual I own.

If you do pass the test in an automatic immediately apply for the test in a manual. You never know the day you may get a free manual company car or need to drive a friend's car due to a break down etc. Only around 50% of new cars sold are automatic although it may be 100% in 5 or 10 years.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120705105#Comment_120705105

I doubt you’re the norm , I can’t remember ever needing to drive someone else’s car as an absolute necessity , also , holiday rentals are often automatic, always an automatic available

bazz26

My own cars have been automatic for the last 10 years but I drive my parent's manual car the odd time too when needed. It's hardly uncommon or the handicap being made out by some here. Doing the test in a manual might feel redundant to generation z but there are still plenty of valid reasons why it's not a bad idea if you can. I'd rather have a choice than none.

coylemj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120705120#Comment_120705120

'holiday rentals are often automatic' is simply not true.

I just checked Europcar for a rental in Lanzarote in late June. They offered me 5 different models, all manual transmission. When I set the transmission to automatic, there was no availability. When I changed the dates to early September, they offered me 7 models, all manual and again, no availability of an automatic. Ditto for early October - seven manual options, no autos.

It will probably be different in large cities where you'd have more people on business trips renting and there's probably plenty of E-Class and 5-series autos available but whether you like it or not, most rental cars in holiday destinations in Europe are going to be manual. Because most people rent a smaller car than they drive at home and most small cars are manual.

I'd encourage the OP to get her daughter to do the test in a manual.

galvo_clare

I get the feeling I’m the only one left in the world who genuinely prefers a manual. And yes, I regularly drive automatics and EVs.

coylemj

Lots of Irish people have apartments in the Algarve. Which may explain why there's better availability of auto rentals at Faro airport than at Lanzarote airport.

But there's an auto premium - Europcar have a Citroen C4 Cactus manual for €65 per day in early October while the automatic version of the same model is their cheapest auto at €96 per day. They're quoting a daily rate for a Peugeot 308 five door at €89 manual and €114 auto.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120705535#Comment_120705535

even it wasn’t possible to rent an automatic ( which I don’t believe), she can always let someone else drive, those aren’t emergency situations

freshpopcorn

I learned to drive in the past few years.

Automatic was always tempting to me and I'll probably own one I'm not anti auto.

I like many others struggled with gears.

I researched online and here and all the stuff about having an automatic and being able to focus on the road more, etc all appealed to me.

I stuck with my manual and I'm happy I did.

After a bit of practice it all gelled together

I'm happy I've the option to drive both now and I can sit in anybodies car and drive it. (I'm one of these people who'd do that.)

Also, if it's work or anything I've the license and it won't be a drama in the future if anything comes up of having to do another test.

Whilst auto's are becoming more popular you are still tying yourself down especially if money is an issue and you want a cheap run about.

Kurooi

Dad is gonna have to budge, or you have to borrow a car from someone else, or buy lessons or a pre-test prep. Those tests are tough enough, you need to have a vehicle you can confidently drive.

I would offer some counter argument to posters above, of course having the option of a manual is better, but think about it realistically, if she's 19 now, not in a trade job, not really interested in cars, just wants a shiny easy drive Prius or borrow mom's automatic. Maybe 2-3 years from now she has that situation where a car rental in Portugal has manual €30 less per day. Is she going to do that? 3 years no practice, new car, new country? Go full Jackass mode to save €30? Have you seen how people drive in most of Europe? Do you want to be dodging those lunatics AND figuring out the stick again?

DaveyDave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120705619#Comment_120705619

Yeah if I really needed to rent a van or something I'd just ask a friend or family member to come with me. I'm not planning on driving a car through the mountains of Europe either. Having someone drive you the odd time never seems to be brought up in these what if scenarios when people say you might need a van or car rental.

Stallingrad

In a similar position and my daughter will definitely be taking the test in a manual despite automatics becoming more common. Far better to have the skill than not have it, and there could be all sorts of unforeseen circumstances down the line where a manual might be the only option.

GaryKE.

If you are learning in an automatic but doing lessons in a manual, there is really no point, do the lessons in an automatic then and take the automatic test.

A manual car takes practice, if they are only doing one lesson a week in a manual and then using the auto until next lesson defeats the purpose of lessons in a manual as they are not building up muscle memory related to clutch and gears.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120705826#Comment_120705826

Clutch control is only a tiny fraction of the driving test. The remainder of the test can be practiced in an automatic, albeit practising in a manual wound be more beneficial

some of the advice is madness.

OP . She should not limit herself with doing the driving test in automatic.

Kill 2 birds with 1 stone and do it in Manual

when booking lessons. They should all be in a manual car.get some extra lessons if needed.

Daddy will have to man up and and let he practice a bit in his car if needed.

Do 2 driving tests lol…..pointless.

As of today there are manual and automatics so she should focus on that.

AyeGer

Who will still need to drive a manual in 10 years time?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120707955#Comment_120707955

Probably won't be driving at all in 10 yrs.

Even in America where the majority of cars have been autos for a very long time there are still manuals.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120707921#Comment_120707921

outdated view , this isn’t twenty years ago where automatics were like spotting owls

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120707985#Comment_120707985

About 1% manual in America, 30% manual in Australia, Europe is an outlier and Ireland has always been an extreme outlier with our near neurotic aversion to automatics ( until very recently)

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120708385#Comment_120708385

Its as high as 4% in some states. "96 percent of Americans drive automatics"

The reason they were so popular in the states is old school automatics were heavy and fuel and fuel was/is cheap in the states. Fuel economy wasn't a concern. Also they have long boring roads, and had the majority of their cars had the driving dynamics of a container ship.

The reason automatics have become popular in Europe, is because in the last few years economy and technology has improved to on a par or better than manual, the good ones are not slow anymore, sometimes faster, and do more long distance driving. They are also far more reliable than they used to be. Though still more expensive to repair. Even if they fail less often.

User1998

Did anyone even read the OP?😂😂

OP asked if practicing in an automatic between manual lessons will be beneficial.

They don’t care about transmission statistics of the USA. And seems like they aren’t even considering the automatic test.

This has just turned into an auto vs manual debate and OP hasn’t even replied since first posting

Flinty997

The OP question was answered long ago. Its bad idea.

Will a learner driver be confused and distracted by switching between them. I think the vast majority of new learner driver would.

Driving in an auto will be good experience for applying rules of the road etc, roadcraft. But is that experience it worth the above problem. I don't think so.

Driving a manual is muscle memory.

GaryKE.

@user1988 Any practice will be beneficial, but if you are just practicing in an auto and doing the test in a manual after say 12 lessons and possible a pretest or two, I will be surprised if they passed 1st time as they would not have enough practice with a manual.

You say it is only a small part of driving a manual, but I would say the opposite your clutch control and gear changing are one of the biggest aspects of driving a manual. If you have not built up enough skill with the clutch/gear change then on the day this may lead to a lot of small mistakes that can cause the driver to get flustered and cause even bigger issue.

If practicing in an auto then do the lessons and test in an auto it makes the most sense.

Flinty997

I would say stick with the manual only until you do the test. Afterwards use the auto to build up experience.

Since even after passing the test, you still need as much experience as you can get.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120708523#Comment_120708523

The same happens when people look for advice on buying ICEs, hybrids and phevs. The thread immediately turns into a discussion on why they would be mad, stupid. insane even to consider buying anything other than an EV even if their budget would only get them into an early Leaf or at a push an Ioniq 28kwh.

I would say if a learner is trying to develop the expertise to pass a manual test, then practising in an auto between lessons might be confusing. Once you master the ability to drive a manual, then it becomes 2nd nature and no longer a distraction when driving so pass the test in a manual and then drive the auto.

My OH learned in a manual but hated it, stuck with it and passed the test. Now predominantly drives an EV and hates driving manual. Her biggest issue remains switching between the two requires her to almost relearn the gear changing process and she constantly cuts out the car until she gets familiar with the process again. Now she hates driving anyway so this problem might not be so pronounced for others. However I would still say stick with the one mode until you pass the test and then do what you like after.

Personally I think that if someone passes the manual test and then drives autos, the idea that at some point in the future they could hop into a manual hire car in a foreign country and simply blast off down the road is not realistic anyway, and could be argued borderline dangerous.

_Kaiser_

I did my test in an auto and have never ran into an issue where I was "stuck" because of it - this was before autos were commonplace too but even then if you stuck to certain brands there was no issue (eg: Jap imports, VW etc). Funnily enough I don't see any reference to it on my license though.

The nice thing too was/is that when you DO need a loaner (eg: if leaving your own car in for a service/few days) you normally get something nice! I got an E320 for the day about 15 years ago because the regular loaner (a Fiesta) was a manual - although if you want to talk about controls.. I never got used to that pedal parking brake they had/have in those!

Agree also that when learning things like observation, spatial awareness, getting a "feel" for the car and different speeds and all the rest are far more important than worrying about/fighting with the gearbox or panicking if you stall it at the lights.

I haven't driven a manual since the mid-90s and would never go back at this stage.

DaveyDave

People aren't reading the post. They're asking if practicing in an auto before the lessons will help.

Practicing driving before doing lessons, regardless of auto or manual, will give them much needed time behind the wheel.

I spent several years cycling before doing my test which I attribute to being able to read the road and react to hazards properly, this was a huge benefit before getting behind the wheel of a car.

Once they start their lessons they can then work on clutch control and won't need to focus on doing several things at once.

There's already another thread for the silly auto Vs manual debate.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120709312#Comment_120709312

If your license has a mistake on it you should get it corrected.

Flinty997

Most people take time to adjust to a different cars.

DrivingForward

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058300134/learning-in-automatic-before-official-driving-lessons-using-manual

Learning first in an auto will not make too much of a difference. There are plenty learners that have never sat in the driver’s seat before their first lesson and do just fine, however, their steering, observation, etc. can take a hit as everything is new to them. Get her out in the automatic, learning to look around, the effect of steering at different speeds, and aiming where to stop the car. Having this little bit of experience will help massively.

Esel

..

AyeGer

I’m driving 25 years now, all manual cars till about 5 years ago. I’m now on my 2nd auto. I will never go back to manual. Auto is definitely the future.

Most young drivers now will never need to drive a manual car. If I was a young person today I wouldn’t waste my time learning a manual.

galwaytt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120695085#Comment_120695085

I disagree, and both my kids have been down this road in the last couple of years, here's my 0.02 on it:

If they are completely 'green' to driving, then they have to learn all about vehicle control using the gears plus traffic plus 'road sense' plus a myriad of other things. If they've never driven before, then they also have to comprehend practical things like speed perception and stopping, roundabouts etc. Throw all that, plus gears & clutch control can be overwhelming for many.

So, break it down. An auto will remove the clutch/gears operation and allow concentration on the most important thing: safety. They'll learn speed comprehension, traffic (and how close it can be), mirror use and navigation of (junctions) etc - without the pressure of clutch & gear use. The automatic will also allow them more easily drive at and abide by, speed limits. (becuase you're not "chasing the gears" as they call it).

With a bit of practice at that level, and developing a sense of those things to becoming 'automatic' (sic :) ), then clutch & gear training in a manual car will be less stressful, and can be added.

Mine started in autos for practice at home, did their EDT in manuals, so I think it was a smooth path to take.

djan

May not be an attractive option, but given the low trade in value of your A4, would you be willing to just run it into the ground until it falls apart?

Motorways are EV's biggest downfall as once you go around the 120km/h speeds, range really suffers, add to that wind and winter weather and you will just about make it with little left over for any further driving.

When doing electricity calculations, make sure to account for increased costs of daytime unit cost in order to benefit from cheaper night time charging.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717049#Comment_120717049

Fair enough. That can be a valid approach, and works well for some learners. However, it might be better to do all training n the one car.

I would start teaching a novice in a level car park with the engine warmed up. Novice is sat in drivers seat and told to only use the clutch with their left leg- no brake or accelerator. It might help to adjust the wing mirrors so that the driver can see where the rear wheels touch the road.

1. Depress clutch and select first gear. Release hand brake. Gently ease the clutch up until the engine note changes, and hold it there. The car will begin to move forward (the engine will not stall unless the clutch was raised too high - too quickly).
2. As the car moves, wait a few seconds and then release the clutch altogether. The car will then move forward without problem.
3. Bring car to a halt by depressing the clutch and apply the hand brake (but you could use the foot brake, but best to just use the clutch at this time - only left leg is being exercised).
4. Repeat but this time select reverse to return the car back to its original starting position.

Now the car moved maybe 20 metres. Repeat this until the novice can do this without hesitation, and the muscles have learnt the bite point. The lesson is learnt when the novice can bring the clutch up with just a momentary pause at the bite point.

Next use this technique to do a three point turn using mirrors and steering wheel. Repeat until novice can do it properly, using mirrors and observation - but only the left leg. [Modern cars will not stall].

Next do the reverse around the corner.

If this is all completed before venturing out on the road, the gears are not a problem.

To verify gears are not a problem, practice changing gears on a quite road to train the muscles to know where the gears are.

While driving on a traffic free road at 50 km/hr (or whatever suits the car being used), get the novice to change gear for 4th to 3rd to 2nd and back again without changing speed and without looking at the gear stick or making the car jerk. To achieve this, the clutch and accelerator must be used in sync to get the revs matched so there is no jerky moment as the gear engages. A lot of experienced drivers would find this challenging.

I think there is a tendency for learners to go out in traffic without the basic skills of controlling the car at low speed, and they get flustered. What I am suggesting is maybe the first hour or two of lessons doing this.

However, you teach your novices any way you choose - I am sure they have learnt to drive well.

wotzgoingon

I taught myself to drive really quickly by reversing in and out the garden when I was young. It taught me how to use the clutch. Like slowly releasing and lightly pressing accelerator. Bought a car a couple of years later at 18 and it was some feeling driving home as I had never driven on a road. I wasn't even insured. I sorted that out later. My sister drove me to the car and I drove it home without ever having a lesson.

The point of all that bullshít is you should let her drive the manual car even if it's in and out of the garden. Though if you have a small driveway I wouldn't recommend that in case she panics and crashes the car into the house.

pawdee

I "learnt to drive" and got my first licence on an automatic in the US years ago. To say that the test was a joke is an understatement. When I moved to the UK I learned to drive a manual and, if I'm honest, I've never been comfortable with it. I just think it's a pain in the arse and unnecessary in this day and age. I can't believe they still make manual cars.

While I see the OPs point, I wouldn't recommend going down that route. I'd say if you're doing the test in a manual do all your lessons and practice in a manual. It's much easier to switch to auto than the other way around. A common mistake manual drivers make when switching to auto is to put their foot on the "clutch" (brake pedal) accidentally. Not nice. I was forever forgetting to put my foot on the clutch when stopping in traffic etc.

I drive a manual now but my next car will definitely be auto again. Having said all of that I can see the appeal in having a blast in a manual sports car on a nice windy road. If I had lots of money I'd probably buy a mint W124 Merc auto for my day to day driving and an Alfa Romeo Stradale 33 for the weekends (ask me again tomorrow and it'll be two different cars).

On a final note, whatever about small hatchbacks / economy cars with manual gearboxes, I could never get my head around people buying new luxury cars like BMW 5 series, Audi A6, Merc E Class etc in manual. You don't see it as much nowadays. Do they even make those with manual anymore? I have no clue.

Happy motoring!

Alanstrainor

The first car I drove was an automatic Polo, my mother had it (I later inherited it...). I started driving it a bit before getting lessons in a manual. In the end I didn't find much value in it. Once you add a manual transmission to the equation it takes a lot of focus and I felt I was back at square one. Whereas driving the auto Polo felt just like a gokart to me. But I took to driving quickly and had an interest, so perhaps for someone with no road experience and who is nervous a few drives in an auto would be beneficial.

I do still see value in learning with a manual transmission, but the need for it is falling fast. Even 10 years ago it would have seemed crazy to me to learn in an auto, but these days not so much. Cars are only going one way, and that's electric. And even if it's a hybrid of some kind almost all will be auto (there's a couple of exceptions).

moonage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120719916#Comment_120719916

I'd disagree with one aspect of your approach. You say to just use the clutch to get the car moving.

I think learners should be taught to first give it some throttle and then get the biting point. It's true that lots of modern cars can move off without throttle but all cars are different. Some learners might pass in a diesel and then buy an older petrol car—they might end up stalling a lot and can't figure out what they're doing wrong.

Regarding the OP, I think learning with a parent in an auto before manual lessons would be helpful. The many skills and aspects of driving, other than clutch/gears, could be worked on. Once the manual lessons start, practicing in an auto wouldn't be advisable as switching between the two would be confusing.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120724204#Comment_120724204

The point about clutch only - no accelerator - is to teach the foot muscle to pause at the bite point. Once that is mastered, then include the accelerator. I would just leave out the accelerator until the novice can master just the clutch only approach because it works and easier to see progress. Obviously not all cars are in good condition and well tended and it may not work with those.

It is not to do this for more than the first few goes/lessons, just to learn the bite point. It would be more forgiving to allow the engine revs to be increased, so not so goo for learning.

Novices should start doing the low speed elements first when there is little to distract.

Driving a car is one of the most complex activities that most people try and master in their lives. Why do they try and run before they can walk.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120724204#Comment_120724204

It's the lack of torque that used to cause cars to stall. Used to be problem with high revving petrols. I expect most cars have more torque these days. Used to be switching between diesel and petrol was like night and day.