Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions *Read OP before posting*

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122048889#Comment_122048889

What do you suggest we do? Just keep them? Does that not make a mockery of the entire system? Why even bother with a visa system or borders?

Make it not worth their while to stay and offer a flight home.

What would you suggest as an alternative? Take in every Nigerian (or other) who wants to come here? Are we to just suck it up if their home country decides you cant send them back?

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122048914#Comment_122048914

There's only a couple of hundred million of them, be grand sure. We have loads of empty fields around Leitrim etc. We could pile 5 million in if we tried hard enough. We must strive to fill all available space with economic units!

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122048901#Comment_122048901

You're assuming people will leave in face of deterrent policies.

Experiences in other countries show this hasn't been the case.

Even where Australia subjected people to the most extreme conditions in offshore centers plenty still stayed and eventually were given leave to remain. Other wealthy countries have faced significant undocumented migration and the problems that come with that.

There are things we could be doing to reduce immigration that won't lead to these type of consequences and we should focus on those.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122048889#Comment_122048889

it needs to get out to their friend's around the world that there is no space for them.

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122048939#Comment_122048939

Happy to hear what these things are?

Modulok

Europe peaked, after 500 years of dominance, in the mid-to-late 1990s and early 2000s. These were halcyon days. Europe is now in a downward motion.

I honestly believe that much of Europe - including Ireland - will be unrecognizable by the late 2050s and 2060s. Not just racially but in terms of human development indices, too. We will experience massive declines in wealth, quality of life, environment, law and order, and governance. We will degrade to third world levels. The old European nations are fading away year by year. There will still be states called Germany, France, Ireland, Sweden, The Netherlands and the UK; but they will be utterly different and in a much worse condition than they are today.

The main cause is demographic collapse of the native populace. Immigration was just a band aid; but the idea that millions of Asians and Africans would integrate was always delusional. I don't think their importation was done with malicious intent, at least not at the start. There are no excuses now, though. It's blindingly obvious that the whole thing is a catastrophe of millenial proportions.

dmakc

https://www.businesspost.ie/politics/up-to-50000-asylum-seekers-to-need-housing-by-2026-memo-warns/?utm_term=qf&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter

Ironic thing is Rod and co's mess will not be theirs to clean up. No accountability in this country

Geert von Instetten

Evidence from Denmark, Norway and Sweden suggests that deterrent policies are viable, as discussed previously.

Varik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122049016#Comment_122049016

and you can guarantee that whenever someone does try, they'll be there to decry any attempts.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122048914#Comment_122048914

Perhaps visa requirements need to be looked at? Change them to make it easier for people to come here.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122049032#Comment_122049032

Haven't seen the long term impacts. What will happen to those indefinitely detained in Denmark who can't be deported?

And not viable here, with lack of AGS resources and current economic dependency on EU position.

Geert von Instetten

In order to prevent the exploitation of the asylum system facilitate alternative forms of migration regardless of whether there is a labour market dividend? At present, there are 25,000 Ukrainian nationals with work-related welfare claims and the employment rate for Nigerian nationals, overtime, is one of the lowest in the State.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122048959#Comment_122048959

I think we actively need to make it known that we are not as attractive a destination as we look. We don't actually have a very high standard of living, we have housing crisis and huge healthcare failures. To the rest of the world we look like a very wealthy country; 2nd highest GDP, apple tax case, low unemployment etc.

I think we need to reduce the number of visa's issued for non-essential workers and prioritize visas for people from developing nations, including a green-card lottery scheme.

I think we need to get the balance right on access to work, perhaps it comes after x number of years of some type of community employment.

I think we need to push that the EU wide response to immigration needs to focus on tackling corruption in poorer countries and increasing living standards. Specifically where western countries are engaged in such corruption or labor abuses.

And we certainly need to move away from private hotels to house IPAs.

Geert von Instetten

Detention is one of a multitude of deterrent policies practised by Denmark and other Member States, besides, considerable investment in infrastructure is required regardless. With respect, I’ve the impression that you disagree with policies of deterrence in principle rather than that you are convinced of their ineffectiveness. 

creeper1

Nigeria won't accept their citizens back?

Restrict and ban remittance from Ireland to Nigeria as a sanction.

They won't be long changing their tune.

Fred Cryton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122049016#Comment_122049016

It's like trying to keep the sea out of the hole you dug on the beach with a shovel. It's a totally futile exercise.

And between 2026 and 2030 how many? Likely another 100,000. So that's 150,000 by 2030.

We know the cost of this. It's €640 million a year per 20,000. So that's a €4.8bn annual cost by 2030 on the 150,000, just on the welfare and paying hotels to accommodate them.

Then you have the eventual fixed housing costs of the State housing another 150,000 people in social homes. At 400k each, that cost is €60bn!!!

musk2dusk

Unprecedented migration.

Unprecedented scarcity of resource.

Unprecedented financial windfall for those invested in crisis.

Political void of rightful mandate.

Multi generational damage that is effecting more and more people.

This situation has been allowed fester and rot year upon year. "Explosive" is the word, and no amount of fake or genuine righteous posturing is going to prevent the inevitable fallout. How it manifests going forward is anyone's guess, but it's not going to be pretty and despite whatever public face anyone puts on it, everyone knows privately on their own time that this doesnt end well.

A headline earlier that "up to 50,000 migrants will need housing by 2026". While irish people are suffering the thus far pinnacle of an unprecedented housing crisis? Explosive.

"It's difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on not understanding it"

Feigned ignorance, in other words. When that approach is taken to an entire country and society we all better be ready to reap the whirlwind.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122049213#Comment_122049213

Why would there not be labour market dividends from employing people from the global south?

They'd have to be qualified for the position of course.

But otherwise I don't get your point, other than it seems maybe you're trying to suggest that Ukrainians and Nigerians are less work prone?

Do you have any evidence to back up your claim on employment rates for Nigerians overtime?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122049242#Comment_122049242

I'm ok with policies of deterrence in some circumstances. I think when it comes to migration people grossly underestimate how a) desperate people are in some cases to leave the global south and b) how modern communication tech makes it easier for people to organize and evade controls.

We do need to invest in infrastructure, but I would think it a lower priority for AGS specifically to be focusing on communities no more likely to commit violent crime etc in Ireland.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122049253#Comment_122049253

How would you implement such a system?

It's difficult and expensive to track monies flowing to terrorism, and that's looking at large sums.

You want to do this for lads sending a few quid back to their grannies?

creeper1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122049373#Comment_122049373

Directive goes out to Irish banks and western union branches banning remittance to Nigeria.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122049401#Comment_122049401

That'll do the trick alright.

There's no way they could send it via another country or crypto.

Like I said, grossly underestimate.

creeper1

50,000 of them needing housing by 2026? That's just three short years away!

How much is that going to cost? Wouldn't it be better spent paying down the national debt?

Let them aquire housing if they have the means to buy it. If it's true they're all highly educated and all it should be no problem.

Now you see why the working classes are suspicious of all this. Alas as expected they are probably going to be competing with IPAs for social housing.

musk2dusk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122049420#Comment_122049420

Based off eurostat recently "young Irish ‘failing to launch adult lives’: 68% of people in late 20s still living with parents"

And

"The number of Irish 25 to 29-year-olds living at home has almost doubled in the last decade"

That generation, and everyone coming behind them, are the ones that are going to run tampant on this runaway financial scheme of mass migration being used to inflate asset prices for a relative handful.

When the future of multiple generations has been sold down the river for the sake of someone else making a few quid today, get ready for the bill. It'll be awesome, in the strict sense.

To take a step back, transpose the situation. Imagine that instead of housing, we were talking about an equal necessity such as food.

Now translate that to headlines.

"The number of Irish 25 to 29-year-olds suffering malnutrition has almost doubled in the last decade"

Meanwhile

"Government thinks it can grow 30,000 more units of food this year"

While simultaneously

"Government states it will need to feed an additional 50,000 migrants by 2026"

The only people who would care for such a situation are those who profit of hyper inflated food prices. Not many, in other words.

Disaster is marching this way and let nobody be mistaken, it was all done for the sake of profit. Misery in exchamge for profit. Go and ask the one family that received €130 million for 6 months off the government buds for housing the migrants the government "can't" stop. They undoubtedly can't get enough of it. I wonder how much of that 130 million got siphoned back to source.

Regardless of mad conspiracy, the situation is ducked with a capital F and the results are baked in now.

Gussie Scrotch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122049502#Comment_122049502

Sadly, I believe you're right.

Its probably too late now to avoid the catastrophic consequences of this government's insane policies.

When ideology trumps hard headed pragmatism, the outcome is predictable.

Geert von Instetten

The Critical Skills Employment Permit is specifically designed to provide employment visas in areas of the economy in which there are skilled labour shortages. The Critical Skills Occupation list is constantly revised to reflect skilled labour shortages, Minister Richmond expanded the list in December 2023. All of which is to say that skilled labour is accounted for by existing visa policies. As skilled labour is accounted for, a policy intended to reduce pressure on asylum would primarily relate to unskilled labour, however, as it is, there are 25,000 Ukrainian nationals with work-related welfare claims, in other words, there is an existing segment of the population capable of filling unskilled labour shortages, why then would the Department of Justice create a visa catering to unskilled Nigerian nationals?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122049502#Comment_122049502

We had higher immigration in the noughties and were building 90k housing units per year.

Yes migration is putting huge pressure on housing but only because we haven't managed our ability to produce, or make available, housing in line.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122049566#Comment_122049566

Indeed, immigration was far higher in the period 2004-08. The financial crash ruined everything - we stopped building houses and have only started building them again in the last 2-3 years (and are playing serious catch up).

musk2dusk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122049542#Comment_122049542

This is not an ideologically motivated situation. This is nothing more than sly eyed profiteering dressed up in humanitarian clothing.

There is simply no way on this green earth that the housing situation, to name but one massive consequence, will be solved ordinarily.

Out of one side of their mouth they promise to try and build X amount of housing this year, and then out of the other side of the mouth they say they "need" to house X+1 extra migrants. Literally, they are telling you that the housing situation is not going to be improved or approached or even considered, ever.

I had one person calling to the door recently looking for a vote. Here are the highlights.

"Yes, we need to build a lot more housing for the growing population". Cue an awkward silence as I stare at him, the silent conversation obviously acknowledged on both sides.

"In 15 years we'll be able to catch up". Well, at least that might be approaching honesty in that it's all far too late.

What people need to realise, if by some miracle they haven't already, is that this situation needs to be attacked with the extreme urgency it requires. It is simply not good enough for this two faced nonsense to continue.

People's futures have been taken from them wholesale, and unless you have the patience to wait "at least 15 years" for any kind of reproachment, something better be done.

Odds of that happening in a peaceful and political way? Dwindlingly little thanks to greed.

Gussie Scrotch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122049616#Comment_122049616

I agree that profit is a major driver of the ongoing crisis.

But it has been - and still is - facilitated to a significant extent by ideology.