Illegal IPTV providers jailed.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662507#Comment_120662507

its a victimless crime, the amounts paid for TV rights and profits of these companies seems to be unaffected

The competition brought in isn't real, its manufactured, there is a cartel of companies and they are laughing at the consumer

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662538#Comment_120662538

Nobody really knows if it's a victimless crime in fairness.

Your take on competition is wrong - the PL have made the most of the new rules by splitting up the rights so a number of platforms can bid for them - they are the ultimate winners. The media companies themselves, I believe, arent acting in a cartel like manner.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662538#Comment_120662538

Victimless crime.

TV companies decide to bid less for sports rights because they are losing ground to illegal operators.

Clubs are getting less money from TV deals.

Clubs decide that they have to let x amount of background people (office staff, maintenance staff, hospitality staff) go because their income streams are reduced.

Well done monkeybutter, you won, but people lost their jobs.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662578#Comment_120662578

Think of a business with actual competition

does it look like the sports broadcasting business?

yes the PL are taking the piss too

if I want to watch a certain PL game, I have no options, just the one

wheres the competition

Butson

As long as footballers are being paid 100k per week, on the back of TV money that is then passed back onto fans, I don't think anything will be changing anytime soon.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662608#Comment_120662608

All those football managers are they losing their jobs because of steaming 🤣

oh the tears

they are burning this money, hilarious

totally victimless

Gusser09

it's remarkable that during a crippling cost of living that Sky keep putting their prices up. I bet Jamie Carragher and Gary Neville haven't taken a pay cut. They certainly aren't being impacted by the cost of living live posters on this forum.

Any morality or unlawful arguments go firmly out the window when I see them raising their prices by a fiver here and there.

And the thing is they will do absolutely nothing to stop the speed of this growing. Their approach is futile. A new model is needed. I do agree though that something will go tits up eventually. 100k a week is probably the average for a PL player now.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662626#Comment_120662626

how will they afford all big sams bungs now 😂

Butson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662663#Comment_120662663

Both Neville and "Carra" are paid over £1million per year from Sky. That doesn't include their work with the likes of Bien sports, US TV etc.

The whole football model needs a serious reality check. Fans are dead right to take things into their own hands.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662623#Comment_120662623

The competion angle was brought into ensure there wasn't a monopoly of one organisation that controled ALL of the rights (Sky).

This just ended up meaning that an individual could end up having to pay multiple subscriptions to multiple providers. That's the "Competition" that is at play.

So it's ended up costing a consumer who might only have one bill to pay for content, pay numerous bills monthly.

The PL were the winners and remain the winners with that money filtering down through the leagues etc.

In relation to "victimless" crime here - I appreciate that people don't really have much time for the faces of top level soccer when they take home hundreds of thousands a week etc but these IPTV services also pirate many other channels, many movies and series and the ACTUAL impact of their use on the various industries involved is difficult to measure.

icdg

Mod Note:

An allegation against a named person was made in a particular post, I have deleted the allegation but have also had to edit other posts which had quoted it. Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Monkeybutter is specifically warned and will be banned if the allegation is repeated.

A number of posts have breached the play the ball not the person rule. This is a general warning on that.

Gusser09

I'd imagine this thread won't last long. Boards.ie seem to sh1te themselves when we start having a debate about IPTV, the cost of legitimate products and why we won't pay it.

So take carraghers salary of 1 million. That's 8333 subscriptions at €120 per month. FFS. That's not taking into account the pubs that pay way more than that.

We've been saying for years that this bubble in football couldn't possibly last so let's see. With more and more quality alternative providers now available it should suck away more over paying customers. People who I know that aren't tech savvy have even switched and think it's great. They would have been people before who would have struggled hooking up a new tv. Everyone has a price and I really think Sky/ BT and the PL are starting to hit the point where customers say no thanks.

It's almost impossible for them to block these services which is great. My guy operates out of the middle east so won't be out of business soon.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662608#Comment_120662608

That's bollix Tod with the greatest of respect. If the clubs decide to let go of catering staff and cleaners that's on them. Not me with my Firestick. Would it be too much to ask Harry Kane or Rashford to take a 1 percent pay cut in order to retain these staff? I seem to remember during Covid Spurs trying similar tactic with non playing staff. Scummy carry on.

Rashford earns 200k per week. I'm guessing 1 percent of that would pay for 4 or 5 cleaners / caterers etc in Manchester.

Look no further than the greed and the profits these lads want to make. Don't be blaming the man sitting at home not able to afford 120 a month.

Are you seriously putting forward that argument?

SteM

In all honestly if a man sitting at home can't afford €120 a month (although the Sky website tells it's €55pm for 12 months) then maybe it's just a service that's out of range for him. Nobody HAS to watch sport and there are free alternatives to watch regular TV. If he misses football he can watch highlights, CL football on free tv or go down the pub for a match if he really wanted to. If he can't afford a Tesla he might buy an MG. If he can't afford to drink in a pub he might drink at home.

Just because something is available doesn't make it okay to take it if you can't afford it.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663034#Comment_120663034

I'm putting forward the argument that if there is a downturn in the EPL revenues from TV rights the people at the bottom end of the pile that will be out of a job.

All your rebellion against Sky etc will only hurt the little guy.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662687#Comment_120662687

The whole football model needs a serious reality check

That's been the case for decades and it's still rolling along.

I thought COVID would burst the bubble but that didn't happen. The only outcome was a rollover of the TV rights because of the uncertainty.

And now the EPL has been turned into a sports washing vehicle for less than reputable national governments.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662507#Comment_120662507

Nowadays the average Joe on the street is using IPTV (from what I have heard) and thats a significant loss to the rights holders and it is a loss - there are a large number of people who have ditched traditional TV for this particularily in the past couple of years so there is significant loss to rights holders.

I think the likes of Now TV is mitigating again illegal IPTV to a certain extent.

No contract and plenty of discount offers.

I've not had Sky sports or BT through the Sky box in years but grab Sky Sports or BT Sports for a month on Now TV here and there depending on what's on and what offers are out there.

Butson

It will be very interesting to see the value paid for the rights in the next round. Will Sky keep paying billions to keep them or maybe they'll take a step back?

People think thr likes of Netflix will bid, I wouldn't be so sure. Average cost of a Premier league game at present works out around £10m. I read somewhere that they make an episode of The Crown, all costs in, for less than half of that. Far better value for them as a business. It lives on the platform for ever and is watched by all ages and demographics. When the match is over, it's over.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663459#Comment_120663459

I dont think it is to be honest.

When you see the average joe on the street using whatever the current technical pirating option is around at the moment, you know that is is being used all over the shop. I know of people who have dropped their sky/BT/racing UK/Netflix subs to use an IPTV service - these people aren't "techie" nor would they have been aware of other "workarounds" in the past.

I suppose only a certain age cohort might be interested in these services. I genuinely believe that the "younger" generation don't have the interest to watch full matches. They are used to getting their content from youtube and other short highlight clips - it's hard to know what impact that will have in the coming years.

Butson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664201#Comment_120664201

That was one of the reasons that the top clubs wanted to introduce the European Super league.

Shorten the games, younger folk growing up on short clips, don't have the patience or interest in 90 mins of a match.

On IPTV, a whole new generation of aul lads in Ireland have them now since GAA Go came in this summer (My dad and his two brothers being 3).

sibersha

Consumers have two choices, pay more than €1K per year to watch SKY, BT Sport, Amazon etc to watch limited games or pay €70 per year to watch all games, along with huge VOD libraries and 1000s of other TV stations with no legal consequences for choosing the latter option.

Unless SKY et al go after the end user, people are going to keep moving to IPTV. As someone pointed out, if the Premier League could offer a streaming service that has the benefits of IPTV at a reasonable price then a lot of people would use this, as Spotify & Apple Music has shown us (do kids today even know what an mp3 is?)

NewClareman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120668045#Comment_120668045

Consumers have multiple choices, only one of which involves illegal activity. I agree that the likelihood of being prosecuted appears low. It also appears that many people have voted with their feet and moved to "alternative' services. Every second holiday home, some owned by very wealthy individuals, appear to have their very own Firestick.

Having said this, supporting illegal activities is a slippery slope and, tempting as it is, not one I'd support under any circumstances. Sky sports is on the NOWTV platform is regularly discounted and I never pay more than €30 per month. That's not much more than aping per week.

DopeTech

I think unless they start prosecuting the buyers too which I don't see happening then it will continue. You can see over the last number of years that tv channels are all moving towards On demand services rather than linear schedules. Eventually I guess illegal IPTV in it's current form will no longer exist if channels put all their content behind apps. It still won't stop the restreaming of content though. Just like what spotify did for music, something will need to be done for tv or people will continue to pirate.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120693748#Comment_120693748

Nealry impossible I would think to pinpoint the users of the service and prosecute. Coming up with an IP address without any physical evidence won't be easy. Also I suspect there is plenty of legal ambiguity about streaming the content.

Anyhow I think a lot of people these days will have a VPN sitting on their firestick or if they are using a decent provider they will be using a vpn on their end.

laoismanj

Before my comment is removed…

Mod: that can be arranged. Post like that again and it’s a ban.

Butson

The head of Sky Sports was interviewed on a podcast recently and gave an interesting perspective. He said in years gone by Sky not having the bulk of the premier league rights would have been a disaster. He said not anymore.

They buy the rights to Formula One, Golf and lots more that drive subscribers for a fraction of the cost. Obviously not as big as the Premier League but I thought it was an interesting comment. If your paying out billions a year for rights, you need to charge customers a hefty price tag to get that back and make a profit.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120660896#Comment_120660896

€140 pm? That sounds a bit steep. Is HD extra on top of a sports sub? I worked it out at €112pm without discounts (still too much IMO).

If you can't access NOW TV, I think the Sky subscription system via satellite is just rotten. First you have to subscribe to a basic channel package before you get the sports sub. Then you have to take all the sports channels if you want that sub, not to mention another sub (BT & Premier Sports) if you want all the PL matches. I'll never subscribe to Sky if they keep their current system. The PL should sell their product direct and offer video season tickets for each club IMO. I'd pay €250-300 for such a product.

icdg

It was over €150 per me with no discounts. That was Sky Signature, Multiscreen, HD, Sports, Sports Extra, and Cinema. I had to cancel at that price.

Traditionally the basic cable package was the “core” package and everything else (sports, movies) was add ons. You need to appreciate that was the traditional model. It’s day may be over though, and one of the best things about Now TV is that you can take Sky Sports (or indeed Sports Extra) on its own (the entertainment pack can be had mind you for about €3pm on offer).

The FAPL will not sell their product direct as long as they can make more money offering the rights to third parties. And they will never ever offer video season tickets - doing so will be down a very slippery slope towards individual clubs selling tv rights to their own home games, because the clubs that do well in video season ticket sales (the Man Uniteds, Liverpool’s etc) will very quickly resent having to share that revenue with the Brentford’s or Crystal Palace’s of the world. They really don’t want to open that hornets nest.

NewClareman

The EU COMMISSION RECOMMENDATION on combating online piracy of sports and other live events was published on the 4th May 2023.

Paragraph 32 makes interesting reading:

"In order to address piracy in a holistic manner, it is important to increase the availability, affordability, and attractiveness of commercial offers for end users to access transmission or retransmissions of live events."

Sultan of Bling

Suspended sentence for this guy.

Now before anyone complains, he has kids with autism and he inspired a chef.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2023/1211/1421401-noel-robinson-court/#:~:text=A%20man%20who%20sold%2081,at%20Dublin%20Circuit%20Criminal%20Court.