After Sales Experience with EV's

podge1979

So I encounter a dreaded warranty issue (ICCU failure) with my Ioniq 5.

Have to say the after sales was terrible. Clear that there is a very limited stock of spare parts still and no real visibility of when they would be available.

From accounts Tesla seem pretty good on after sales but with Hyundai I didn't even get a loaner car from dealer. Hyundai Ireland and Europe have been useless just constantly reminding me courtesy car is discretionary as per the Warranty T&C's.

After 3 weeks waiting I just sold the car to another dealer and cut my losses (only positive part).

What has been the experience with other EV OEMs?

Should be a consideration when buying a new EV especially the first model.

liamog

With any manufacturer a lot is going to come down to the individual dealer. We had great service from Hutton & Meade a few years ago when dealing with a warranty issue on the Ioniq 28kWh. The fault was in the air con system and took a good while to pin down, but they always gave us a courtesy car whilst they were looking into it. I didn't have any issues with my Mini, but again the dealer gave me a courtesy car when I had it in for it's service.

E30M3

Given the Disrespect, misleading information and fobbing off I received from Tesla post delivery when I decided to return a MY after 4 days ownership I never want to find out what the rest of their Service is like.

I very quickly decided that if they treat customers who have a contractual right to return a car for a refund with 14 days with such utter contempt and disrespect as I experienced during my short ownership they aren't a company I ever want to have an ongoing relationship with.

Your Ioniq 5 experience sounds utterly frustrating did you buy another EV? I'm back to ICE and count myself lucky to be rid of Tesla.

podge1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659237#Comment_120659237

Had they parts quickly available as with new models it can be an issue at the moment. Production of parts ramping up but mainly for car production and not spare parts.

Yeah dealer can be issue. Worst experience I've had in 20 odd years of buy cars.

Gumbo

BMW.

Ordered i4 in early 2022. €63k. Salesman told me to expect prices increases so get order in early. Done. March came and he told me price gone up. €71k for the car I ordered. Take it or leave it. Trade in value reduced also which I would expect from a dealer so I don’t blame them there. car wouldn’t be ready until 2023. And judging by the posts in the i4 thread they are just as bad as Tesla for jumping dates.

530e faulty O2 sensor they wanted the car for a full day to diagnose. Then took 4 months for the sensor to arrive.

Tesla.

Trade in price bet every other garage and what I could have achieved on the private market. I suspect the free super charging was the reason and they wanted it out of the public realm.

Ordered from inventory. Collection 2 weeks later. Car was dirty. Wheels were badly kerbed. I sent an email and got €100 valet voucher. Then I got a €100 shop credit from the garage due to having to go back with the car for them to refurb the wheels. No quibble loan car.

The humidity sensor went in the car then early this year. Logged in app. Ranger out a few days later. Replaced for free in my driveway.

Haven’t had any other dealings with them.

All dealers have their good and bad points. Sometimes it can come down to getting the right person on the right day that transforms your experience with them.

10-10-20

Yeah, I've lost trust in our local Hyundai dealer over the veil of deceit which they try to use with us. Any time we needed to have the car looked at for warranty issues we would nearly need a fact-checker and a referee on the call to deal with the level of bull which emanates from their service department. I swear they were blaming every and any fault on the traction battery which was involved in that recent Kona recall. The actual fault with that battery was only on a tiny sub-set of vehicles, but when I had a problem with cruse-control not staying enabled that didn't stop service saying "that will probably be fixed when the new battery is installed as the old one has a fault in it." Waft of merde!!

Anyway I digress, as from what I can ascertain a lot of what this is is just a lack of knowledge and training on the part of the dealerships. They sometimes get left out on a limb by the manufacturer and they can't take on repair work often without authorisation from head-office, so that leads to sand-bagging and waffle as they try to save face.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659250#Comment_120659250

Interesting. That's some whack to the dealer too though, they now have a pre-owned vehicle on the lot and depreciation has to hit someone's bottom line. Was that on the basis of an online purchase cooling-off period?

podge1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659250#Comment_120659250

Not sure what I'll be getting next will be going the lease route I think. Will know in a few days I don't really want to join the EV queue again to buy.

podge1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659300#Comment_120659300

I'd agree with the dealer part but Hyundai Ireland were even worse got quite condescending in the end. Hyundai Europe just direct to Hyundai Ireland and Hyundai Ireland just back to the dealer.

E30M3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659323#Comment_120659323

Yes 14 day cooling off period as per the contract and distance selling legislation.

I gave notice of my cancellation and tried to return the car after 4 days ownership with 408 klms on it, Tesla rep refused to accept car back assured me that Tesla would 'Reach out;' with an appointment to return the car, of course they never did and I was left emailing ringing and webchatting. A month of stress followed until I think they finally realised this guy isn't going to be fobbed off and accepted the car back grudgingly.

They charged me for excess klms which the Tesla Rep I dropped the car back to said I wasn't being charged because of the experience I'd had and the fact the KLms were only on the car because Tesla refused the return.

When I got my refund on the last possible day to comply with legislation they had deducted a klms charge and The Tesla Rep initially apologised and said that this was a mistake and they would get it sorted.

Subsequently I was contacted again and told that Tesla would not honour what had been outlined by their rep and I wouldn't be getting any refund.

At no stage did Tesla try to deescalate, in fact their approach compounded my negative view of the process and the company.

Never again, I've purchased 21 cars and could list the reg of every one from memory, this was hands down the worst company I've ever bough a car off and this was the most money I've ever spent on a car.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659237#Comment_120659237

Ditto on this, at lot seems to come down to the dealership and their general attitude towards after sales

Dealt with Windsor Airside for the Leaf and found them to be generally very professional. Got a reminder text when the service was due, booked in and when the car was in for a service I'd get a text with a link listing the inspection report, and recommended or optional actions and the associated costs.

I'd tick the ones I wanted done, could see the exact price and it got done. The garage would also ring to confirm so I guess they didn't 100% trust the technology

Joe Duffy VW have been a slightly less good experience. They're a tad more old fashioned over there and when I tried using the in car app to request a service they never responded. I'm guessing nobody is checking that email address and they do things over the phones

Had to drop the car in for a couple of issues and generally they did their best but it's also somewhat evident they don't know much about the ID cars and are relying on the diagnostics to tell them what's wrong

I also was a tad suspicious about the inspection report when I spotted all the tyres had the exact same amount of tread. I don't think I'm quite skilled enough to wear all 4 tyres equally over 2 years 😏

I think I'm going to have to try and get a warranty issue fixed with one of the door locks so that's going to be interesting

From the owners threads, it seems some of the garages are better and some are prats, doesn't seem to be anything brand specific

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659484#Comment_120659484

What was the reason for return in the first place?

E30M3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659684#Comment_120659684

-Tesla offered 5,000 klms free supercharging for Cars collected between the 25/03 and 31/03. I collected on the 25th and 2 days later Tesla changed the banner headline to say 'between 27/03 and 31/03. I asked them were they honouring the initial offer and provided them with a screenshot. They never even responded to my e-mail.

-The following evening they had the infamous firesale and that was ongoing.

-I found the seat uncomfortable.

Bear in mind that you can return the car without giving any reason once you give notice within 14 days but as you asked I've outlined mine.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659261#Comment_120659261

Our issue was about 3 years in, I think parts and diagnosis are a problem for any new model. Takes a while for the knowledge to spread through the network

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659727#Comment_120659727

Worth noting the fire sale was cancelled so nobody benefited except one that we know of.

Of all the crap Tesla pull, you’re quite lucky it was Tesla and you could avail of the 14 day return. I don’t think any other manufacturer allow that.

Silver lining and all that 😃

E30M3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659954#Comment_120659954

Luck doesn't come into it. If Tesla use an online sales model they must adhere to EU distance selling regulations. Same for any other manufacturers who uses the same sales channel.

Tesla refused to accept the car when I brought it back. Failed to respond to numerous contacts over weeks and then tried to claim that I was outside 14 days and they wouldn't accept the car back.luck isn't a word I'd choose. They are a nightmare to deal with

silver_sky

I've found Tesla to be good in comparison to my other dealer dealings. Had a minor paint issue on delivery and they had it sorted and provided me with a loaner. Damage shouldn't have been there and resolution was dragged out a little further than I'd like but acceptable.

I'd never buy another Renault EV given my dealings with them and their dealers. It's a mix of not enough training and HQ holding tight reins on what the dealers can actually do on EVs. End result is the customer gets passed around, fobbed off, and if out of warranty you still have no say in what work is done.

eastie17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659954#Comment_120659954

Its the law, all dealers where you are buying over the internet have to adhere to it. So I'd be fairly sure Tesla wouldnt be doing it unless the law made them to

eastie17

Polestar 2 owner here, everything done though Volvo dealerships but primary contact is the support button in the car. Except test drives which are in the spaces location near Spirit volvo, and occasionally in other major cities

I like the fact that there is a physical dealership although its like everything i suspect that until they have dealt with a volume of cars they wont know how to deal with a lot of the issues

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661868#Comment_120661868

That’s my point. No other dealer offers the online sales to avail of this. All other dealers, the purchase is in their garage so not deemed as a distance sale.

Funny enough, you can return the Tesla in America too under the same agreement and they have no distance selling rules.

Tazium

Interesting thread and conversation. Expect that the louder voices will be those experiencing poor after sales care and looking at the spread of marques there's a mixed range of experiences. Are any of them good?

I've experience with Audi North Dublin and it's not been good so far. In contrast Audi Assist are very good. Giving two examples

1. Electrical fault warning light on dashboard, called Audi Assist. Car lifted from the driveway and brought to the dealer. Replacement car delivered to the home while waiting.
2. Same warning light appeared months later, called Audi North Dublin to learn of a recall for battery management. Arranged appointment and in discussion for a replacement car, best they could do was give me a lift home. Car kept overnight Friday and I needed to take a taxi over to collect the car next day as there was no other options available. No details of what was fixed, changed, updated, or otherwise. No 'service report' either. Just collect the keys and go.

It's put me off purchasing another in this Marque and really I've been eyeing the Hyundai Ionic 5 to move too. Seems from the thread that they are just as poor.

E30M3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663079#Comment_120663079

I can only speak for Ireland where I purchased and my own experience.

Tesla went out of their way not to take the car back. Refusing to accept it on day 4 after purchase, making no arrangements or contact to return it subsequently despite assurances that they would and ignoring my attempts to arrange this for weeks, then when I sent them a registered letter in frustration they came back and said tough you are over 14 days and it was your responsibility to return the car within 14 days of notification.

They ignored the fact that they had refused to take the car back in Sandyford when I tried to return it.

It took a very strongly worded e-mail in reply and another week for them to say ok we will now accept it.

Other dealers do offer this distance selling facility. I purchased a car from Leaseplan remotely during Covid that was delivered down to me and my contract had the 14 day provision included but I had no reason to envoke it for that purchase. I'm sure there must be others.

In my opinion some companies will generally try to do the right thing and some companies will try to do what they think they will get away with, I class Tesla in the 2nd category.

podge1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663172#Comment_120663172

I came from an Audi, and after sale was always good there. I had a warranty issue with the steering column once and no questions after straight in diagnosed. I got a car better than my own as a loaner.

HKMC have aspirations of being a premium brand well first thing to change is the warranty T&C's in regards courtesy car (I'd get over a day or two but had been 3 weeks before I sold it).

Tech etc. Isn't the difference anymore to be premium. Premium has a lot to do with experience.

I'm gone back to a German car again.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663613#Comment_120663613

Yes, covid was exceptional for distance selling. Once you bought it over the phone or online your covered.

Do Leaseplan still offer this service?

E30M3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663736#Comment_120663736

There were no specific changes provisions made for distance selling during Covid, the rules that apply then still apply now for any online purchases.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664719#Comment_120664719

Of course. But the the dealers themselves changed their practices to keep sales and adjust to the market conditions at that time.

Any dealer I know that offered this have returned to in person sales

Can you still buy online from other dealers?

E30M3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664814#Comment_120664814

Of course you can, Zucar have a 5 day money back guarantee.

This is peripheral to my experience with Tesla, My point is that Tesla have to provide this facility because of how they operate in Ireland. This isn't optional and yet they tried to refuse me and delayed the process and it seems expected me to go away.

I have outlined my experience and the barriers Tesla put in my way to exercise my legal rights. To me this is totally unacceptable but of course you can have your own views on this, I haven't noticed you comment on the way Tesla behaved.

youngblood

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058298541/after-sales-experience-with-evs

Im not sure it's just electric cars with Hyundai but service in general with Hyundai has become horrendous over the last years.

Their deteriorating service has been very apparent from someone who has been with them for the last 2 cars over 6 years.

The quality of service and customer service from the first car service to last one has been like night and day

And based on their customer service quality I would urge any potential customers to seek another brand/garage and avoid Hyundai like the plague.

BobMc

I'm sure plenty could chime in with horror stories of poor service from all Dealers and Brands, plenty good stories too just we dont generally here about those, don't think its specific to EVs either its the lot of them !

Casati

Did you test take a test drive with Tesla prior to purchasing?

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664908#Comment_120664908

They probably had to work harder to attract/keep customers previously as their cars used to be pretty low rent. Vastly improved offerings have seen demand exceed supply. KIA Dealers seem to have gone the same way.

Fingleberries

I've been back to Tesla a couple of times since purchasing the car a year ago - a couple of niggles or warranty covered things, once for a cracked back window and once for a driver assist fault.

Each time they were grand to deal with - Waiting for an appointment for bigger items was a bit of a pain, but not too much. Once got a loaner Model S, other time there was no loaner available (because it was an emergency issue for the driver assist fault) so got €80 Uber credit for each day that they had the car.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664889#Comment_120664889

That’s good with Zucar. Another online purchased so obviously covered.

Tesla are crap to deal with, particularly pre-purchase. I said that in my very first reply to you. You probably missed it.

Post purchase I’ve found them to be one of the best to deal with

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664814#Comment_120664814

You’ve always been able to buy online and pay for a car you haven’t seen in person, it just wasn’t common practice. The showrooms are back open but online sales are still possible

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665730#Comment_120665730

If they allow this then you have added protection. Not many allow it now. Zucar as mentioned above. Tesla.

Any others?

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665815#Comment_120665815

Call any used car dealer and offer full asking price over the phone. See how many of them say no😂

mickdw

Leaseplan were mentioned above. They no longer retail ex lease cars to public according to their site.

Old diesel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664950#Comment_120664950

THIS......

EV issues can exacerbate the problems though if the manufacturer isn't providing the dealer and end user with the correct technical support.

And the customer especially if EV newbie is left thinking that EVs "don't work" "are a scam" etc.

However I've seen atrocious situations with ICE cars too.

I take my EV to the dealers to get a stamp in the service book for the warranty.

Wouldn't even hardly trust them to go at the dashboard rattle I've got and instead learned to live with it.

Hyundai build quality isn't as good as what I was used to with Toyota.....

We've had two ICE Hyundais in the family and the quality wasn't up to Toyota standards on those either.

I'm talking 90s Toyotas here btw when I say Toyota standards.

Edit......

4 year old Ioniq with 23000 kms - dashboard rattles - and its had them for ages

20 year old Toyota with 190,000 MILES - no interior rattles.....

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120666131#Comment_120666131

And they’ll do that not knowing what legal implications they’ve opened themselves to 🤣

But I agree. What about any dealer that takes a deposit over the phone. Then you call in and pay with draft. Are you covered because initial deposit was distance selling?

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120666447#Comment_120666447

Oh yeah I completely agree. They probably haven’t a clue😂

I’d imagine that a lot of small dealers selling cars for under €10k would take a non refundable deposit of around €250 to cover delivery and let the customer satisfy themselves with the car in person before paying the balance. Thus excluding them from the distance sale rules?

I wouldn’t say an online deposit is covered. I think as long as you get to see and inspect the vehicle in person before paying the balance then it would be excluded?

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120666375#Comment_120666375

I think the problem is somewhat exacerbated with EVs for two reasons.

First there aren't a whole lot of independent garages that can repair EVs yet. So you're at the mercy of the level of (in)competence of the main dealer garages. I also think the indy EV garages are probably a little more invested in making a good repair and growing their business

Second reason is that while EVs tend not to break down as often, when they do it tends to be fairly catastrophic. We've all had ICE cars which had some mechanical issues but you were able to keep the thing running for a while while ignoring it. However there's not a whole load of potential EV issues that you can ignore for very long

I guess the flip side of having fewer mechanical parts is that the remaining parts become more critical

Having said all that, I've never had any powertrain issues with either of the EVs I've had 😁

zg3409

In terms of a free loaner car dealers often have few or no loaner cars. Those that do are often intended for one day loan during a service with the hope you will like the loaner and upgrade. It's like the sales person handling routine services, they want you to look at the new models in the show rooms while you wait.

For long term faults or where parts may take weeks or months to arrive they will be very hesitant to hand you a car especially if you may drive the mileage on the clock way up. It reduces their ability to loan cars to others.

In the past I had a vehicle fault. I immediately went out and bought a Toyota Yaris for 500 euro locally and sold it 3 weeks later for 500 euro. It worked out cheaper than hiring a car.

Most dealers have issues with staff training, as most good mechanics go out on their own. Due to COVID apprenticeships there is a shortage of new mechanics and apprentices get paid 4 euro an hour (no lie). There is a 1+ year wait for apprentices to get fas training.

Add to worldwide shortage of parts for new models of cars, particularly weak parts failing on all cars sold then you have the perfect storm.

3 weeks wait for independent garages seems to be the norm now.

No dealers want to take cars back, often buyers change their mind after a few weeks ownership, and dealers look to screw them out of thousands.

I don't think any dealer or sales person is your friend. Their job is to make profit, commission and get rid of stock from the forecourt. If they think it's in their best interest they will help you.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120679194#Comment_120679194

Don’t think you’ll buy a roadworthy Yaris for €500 at the moment. Even bangers are making good money.

podge1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120679194#Comment_120679194

Horse, after spending 55k on a car I wouldn't stand for driving a sh***y Yaris. If I wanted a sh***y Yaris I would have bought that in the first place.

Never had this problem with likes of VW's Audi's or Volvo in the past.

Some of those involved warranty issues and other issues that took time. Always had a car.

Anyway sold the car, wrecked Hyundai Ireland head and have one last rant to go to Hyundai corporate, won't make a difference but at least I'll feel better. I won't darken the doorstep of a Hyundai dealer again.

3 weeks wait is not the time frame for the ICCU failure was told it "could be up to 8 weeks but at least not the 4months it was previously" that would have been 11 weeks waiting in my case potentially. Heard of a few more similar cases in Ireland now. Also loads of cars parked up in lots across the world. Not surprising there are failures new technology that enables V2L so expected some issues but how they dealt with it was what I wasn't expecting

podge1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120679380#Comment_120679380

And tax it too

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659250#Comment_120659250

They got your dosh. They don't care now. Shout as loud as you can.

podge1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120679403#Comment_120679403

Well if my shouting convinces at least one person not to buy one we'll be even.

Ps. Do you work for Hyundai Ireland as I was getting similar condescending responses from them 😜

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120679440#Comment_120679440

I can't appreciate this post more.

I really didn't mean my post to be condescending.

I think your experience is awful.

carsfan2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663688#Comment_120663688

What did you buy after the ioniq 5?

podge1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120679493#Comment_120679493

ID4... Tis grand but a bit underwhelming, but after service should be better.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120680203#Comment_120680203

Can't say I'd hold your breath, just as many tales of underwhelming service from VW

It really does seem to depend on the garage, some are better than others

Hopefully we see a few more independent EV garages popping up. The indys at least have some incentive to ensure the customers car is actually fixed, the main garages only want to sell you new cars and only care about after sales in terms of keeping the car's resale value high

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120679394#Comment_120679394

I think the best solution to sort this issue would have been to have one ICCU and fuse in stock in every dealer. When there's a warranty claim that is used and then replaced by Hyundai.

Unfortunately they don't seem to be in a position to provide stock in an efficient manner at the moment and will probably take another 12-18 months to have parts readily available.