McGrath statement of tax changes for landlords. Same as last year. Will never happen.

Thargor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121029162#Comment_121029162

Is that true about Simon Harris messing with the current rent-a-room scheme?

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121030531#Comment_121030531

They love top mess with things that work and then pretend they are surprised when it makes it 10 times worse. The who rental crisis from day one is down to them messing with things that already worked.

DubCount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121030531#Comment_121030531

Lots of kite flying.

There is a long line of measures brought in to "protect tenants", that only result in less supply so less protection and higher prices for tenants. It seems we have not reached the end of this trend.

Options for getting long term commitment for tax breaks, could be anything from a claw back if a LL leaves within x years of claiming relief, to applying tax breaks only to leases over x years, to requiring a sworn statement renouncing rights to terminate for the reason of sale etc.. I only hope the T&C's are not so nuts that it further disheartens LLs who cant meet the requirements, and has the effect of actually making things worse.

I reckon we're going to need a bigger kite.......

Thinkingaboutit

The McGrath statement was a waste of time. Anyhow, REITs and foreign investors benefitting from tax breaks are interested only in people who can pay big rents. Given the evident incapacity of the modern Irish state to even build the numbers of council houses (up to 20k a year) on far more modest resources, as was managed in the 60s and 70s with a much more modest demand, the smaller landlords cannot be replaced. Allowing only a rent increase that's a fraction of inflation, the near complete lack of suitable buy to let mortgages and the sheer incompetence of the RTB (the website for registering tenancies is just one of the worst, even by the low standards of the Irish public services and their handling of cases is Tusla level unprofessional), doing nothing about the cabbages of ABP and local authorities, suggests the main parties in Dáil Éireann are sniffing petrol. Anyone law abiding is finding it increasingly difficult while the dodgy guys pretending to have several rent a rooms or just keeping outside the system by focussing on tenants without the language skills to know their rights. It's silly and tiresome, just so tiresome.

Fred Cryton

Doing some quick maths on this.

130k landlords in Ireland. Let's say €1,500 is average rent, that's €18,000 per year. Ignoring expenses - Taxing that at 20% instead of 40% would cost the government €3,600 per landlord. Multiplying by €130k is total cost of €468m.

Given the total tax package is €1.1bn, I can't see them spending one third of it on landlords. So this is going to be the usual half measure of maybe giving €2k tax credit to landlords or something like that.

Mr Disco

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035677#Comment_121035677

Nonsense maths ignoring relief for mortgage interest/management fees etc

Fred Cryton

Saw in one of the Sunday papers that department of finance has ruled out the €14k rent a room relief for landlords due to cost.

This is so typical - bean counter civil servants calling the shots in Ireland instead of elected politicians. It might cost money but getting more landlords into the business provides a tangible social gain.

To be fair I don't think anybody expects the Government to introduce any measures that would benefit landlords in any way as there would be outrage from renters. It all designed to make landlords think that providing rentals will become more attractive in the future in the hopes that they will remain in the market.

Grumpypants

Whatever they do will make it worse like reducing capital gains tax. So the only way to benefit is to sell the house!!

If they got the implementation right on the 14k and had landlords reduce the rent to 14k and sign a 5-10 year lease to be able to get it and not have to do the tax return. Then most would.

That would save the renter a load each month. Far more than the €500 tax credit. If your rent is €1800 and drops to €1100 then you suddenly have €700 a month extra in your pocket.

The landlord gets a viable product. The renter gets affordable housing, the rental market gets stability.

But what we will get is something utterly pointless.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963803#Comment_120963803

I am a landlord in another country no tax no rtb

Sure plenty of Irish landlords don't pay tax on their rental income. Just look at the stampede for the exits last year when the tax credit for renters came in

BTW, if living in Ireland, you are still liable to pay tax on your foreign rental income.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153553#Comment_121153553

That would have been a great plan alright if not for one thing, I really have no faith in the government sticking to any kind of plan around housing long term. It's such a contentious issue that you're going to see a slew of new ideas coming into play to fix the situation over the coming years. Exacerbated even more if Sinn Fein get into power.

The concern would be that you'd drop the rent to 14k to avail of the scheme, then something would change again, the 14k relief would be removed, you'd be back to the current taxing system but stuck at that lower 14k rental income with no way to raise it back due to RPZ rules.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153553#Comment_121153553

That is right make so many conditions as to make the scheme unworkable for LL so they will continue leaving

bluedex

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168125#Comment_121168125

Did you see the lad on Virgin TV last night saying a tax break was useless (he's right) and they needed to introduce a 3 year eviction ban instead (wrong and batsh1t crazy).

An academic from Maynooth University, clueless.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168162#Comment_121168162

Ya I did and I saw the one afterwards on the late chat as well on about the option available to her. She was renting costing 35k/ months, cannot afford a house in Dublin, she is a part-time media producer, her husband/ partner has a full-time job however they can only get a 350k mortgage and cannot afford to buy with that

No taught if moving out if Dublin, ( in Limerick or Cork they would get factory work earning 100k/ year between them and then could afford a house

bluedex

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168193#Comment_121168193

Didn't see that.

The guy was also advocating a state owned & run property development organisation. What could possibly go wrong?? 😉

That confirmed my opinion...

themoone

@bluedex was he the one on Euronews a few months ago that claimed that there are no rent controls in Ireland and that he has been pleading with the government for the last 9years but they have refused to introduce it. I dont think he is clueless clearly has an agenda.

Grumpypants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168162#Comment_121168162

You wouldn't need an eviction ban if people paid their rent and you had a system to get non paying tenants out.

There is a reality TV show on one of the UK channels that follows court appointed bailiffs. It's so easy, you pay a small fee. A judge rules over the case within a few weeks. If you are not paying rent the bailiffs come and change to locks and give the property back.

I don't know why it takes 2 years here. If we had that system it removes the risk of non paying tenants and more landlords would stay.

bluedex

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168417#Comment_121168417

Not sure. He was an academic from Maynooth University if that helps. Would make sense that he has an agenda, as it's hard to believe he could be that stupid - although you never know, I've been surprised before!

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168690#Comment_121168690

Was it Rory Herne that was on from Manooth university that was on last night or is there another head the ball similar to him in MU as well.

Mr Disco

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168982#Comment_121168982

Is he the lad still living with Mummy & Daddy?

Jane Austen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168193#Comment_121168193

I don't get this narrative - a mortgage of Eur350k means you will also have a deposit outside of that/some other funds - even assuming your max purchase price was Eur350k - there are over 750 properties (minimum 2 bed) on MyHome right now - yes they may not be in your first choice location - some may even be somewhere you definitely might not want to me but there are also plenty that are in perfectly reasonable spots - 2-3 bed apartments and duplexes in reasonable areas - cut your cloth - you don't have to move out of Dublin with a budget in excess of Eur350k - does no one challenge these populist complaints??

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169204#Comment_121169204

I do not think anyone in the media world challenges these opinions. From the conversation either the presenter or one of the regular contributor's knew her personally, that dose not make for balanced presentation.

It's hard to tell cold hard facts to someone you know personally......and definitely not on a TV program if you have not done already. All these presenters are on fairly decent salaries but they cannot compete against people in Google, X and Facebook for the high priced houses that there parents cound before. They still have options if they are not happy with those options they need to make other decisions

bluedex

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168982#Comment_121168982

Yes! Just checked and it was Rory Hearne. I've twigged who he is now, he spouts all sorts of utter nonsense on Twitter/X on the same topic. I didn't realise it was same guy when I was watching it last night

themoone

@Jane Austen No no body does. Lets not forget that the media just after the crash was egging tenants to haggle the rent and when some landlords said that they would not be able to pay mortgages they laughed it off. Euronews was not much different, the journalist (i presume) talked about the housing crises in Ireland; although there is a housing crisis in Ireland, Germany (that also introduced rent controls), Holland, Canada, Australia ... etc. but this was never brought up. Not only did he not bring this up he did not link the rent countrols in these countries to the shortage of supply (a fact that many warned the then minister Alan Kelly of, including the RTB and senior civil servants in 2014) and the correlation between the shortage of supply and high prices. Nor did that same person mention that the crisis began after the government deadline re. bedsits (even Coveney acknowledged was one of the factors in the crisis).

Then the journalist interviewed .... who claimed that there were no rent controls in Ireland although he has been pleading with the government for the past 9 years and they have refused, this is factually not true as we know. The interviewee also wanted additional tenant protections including a 3-year eviction ban (in fact the correct terminology is termination ban) he did not propose any solution to how this would address executor sale (as the case that is being discussed on the boards). We know that the benefactors of this estate have a tax bill and I presume possible interest.

The interviewer never cross questioned the information this man was saying or even the effects of what he was proposing.

Is it a wonder that in this climate a huge amount of landlords have opted to sell?

Fred Cryton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168690#Comment_121168690

He is a former PBP candidate and an absolute fool. Pretends to be some neutral professor then goes off on unhinged far left rants

Wants a state construction company...can you imagine...probably half their budget would go on pensions, perks and holidays for their staff.

Snopake

Statement in the Sunday Business Post indicating that any landlord tax credit would be lower than the renters tax credit so likely sub €700.

Not sure what they hope to achieve with such a small incentive

DubCount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189577#Comment_121189577

Its virtue signaling. It stops the narrative that they are "doing nothing", even if it doesnt achieve anything.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168579#Comment_121168579

If we followed the UK show it would push the problems on to the councils.

Grumpypants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121191233#Comment_121191233

You mean it would push the problem of housing people that refuse to pay rent away from the private individual and over to the well resourced public entity that looks after housing for people that won't pay rent.

Doesn't sound like a problem.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035677#Comment_121035677

I think this is a good analysis, despite subsequent responses.

It demonstrates that this really is not going to be a substantial incentive. As in, how much would a Landlord need to be paid to lock in to a rental agreement for say 4 years. I dont think a €1000 a year would be nearly enough, would need to be the €3k or €4k described above and that wont happen.