Would you support a new Rural Political Party

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562837#Comment_120562837

You are deliberately not answering the question that I asked? Why is that?

Sequestration is part of the cycle of agri. It is not offsetting.

You are clearly out of your depth here.

Are you,

A) A green party shill

B) A lobbyist for big business looking to take control of food production.

C) A Troll

Please read the questions and ensure that you are answering what is asked of you. Oh and be truthful now!

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562795#Comment_120562795

The only way this 'new party' will have a significant presence in the next Dail is if current rural independents are reelected in a different guise. This guy puts it well

some pundits suggesting they could plausibly win 15 seats. Which sounds like an awful lot until you realise that there’s already about 15 conservative rural-interests TDs in the Dáil. Realistically, such a party (or alliance) would probably mostly get incumbents re-elected and, I suspect, would rapidly go the way of such prior “big tent” quasi-Independent arrangements such as the Independent Alliance or New Vision...

the story seems to have faded, with some of the highest profile rural independents saying they want nothing to do with it.

https://irishelectionprojections.com/2023/05/05/april-2023-projections-update/

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563601#Comment_120563601

They could be the 3rd leg in the coalition with FFG....interesting. :)

I've made this point before but IMO that is the whole object of the exercise. The likes of Fitzmaurice are looking at the current set-up and thinking "If we independents had our ducks in a row and had been able to offer FF/FG a solid support bloc of 10-12 TDS, we could have kept the Greens and all their anti-rural policies away from government."

Current polling suggests FF/FG will be looking to make up similar numbers after the next election, but it seems unlikely there will be a 'big small' party on the scale of the Greens to meet the demand. But the pressure will be on to get the next government up and running faster than the current one, and it would be a big ask for 10-12 completely independent independents to put together an alliance from scratch after the election, and then sit down to negotiate with FF & FG. So to avail of this opportunity, if it arises, the rural independents need to have some form of alliance, however loose, in place ahead of the election. Or that's what I believe is driving this talk of a new party anyway...

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563312#Comment_120563312

If anyone needs a dose of realism it`s the Irish Green Party and their supporters.

The OEDC - FAO Agricultural Outlook Report is projecting a 14% increase in meat consumption by 2030. While the likes of Brazil are increasing their cattle numbers by 24 million, (and burning down a rainforest to facilitate that), our numpties were threatening to bring down the Government if numbers were not cut by up to 1.3 million. Even Australia by 2025 will have the highest number of cattle since the 1970`s.

Realism is that if we culled every bovine in the country it would not make one iota of difference to global emissions as others are more than happy to step in and fill the gap rather than destroying their Agri sector which our Green Party and their acolytes are attempting to do. To add to the farce, both Brazil and Argentina are shipping 80% of the volume of meat all the way from South America to the E.U.that we, a member state does..

Other than it being some warped virtual signalling, a dislike of farming and farmers, or Irish Greens somehow believing we live in our own little biosphere, where would Ireland culling cattle do a single thing to reduce global emissions or carbon footprint ?

rolling boh

A new solid bloc would definitely oust the greens and keep SF out .The question is if that bloc can be formed and stable enough to be a real option as the third wheel in the coalition.

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563479#Comment_120563479

What do you mean by "sequestering is something that farms should do"?

Do you understand the carbon cycle?

And, can you answer why is carbon sequestration not counted when calculating Agri emissions?

What industry do you work in yourself if you are not one of the 3 options that I gave you above?

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563870#Comment_120563870

Any group that seeks to put back the current FFG combo is unlikely to be looked on favorably by the majority of the electorate

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563211#Comment_120563211

The whole of Ireland is "up in arms" about stuff it knows nothing about which was my point all along. Every section of Irish society bitches about stuff it knows nothing about including farmers.

Also I have never once questioned farming methods, herd reduction or any sort of eco reductions in relation to farming.

When the cost of food goes up so does all sorts of other things in the "urban sector" so the whinging farmer will be double hit too and the cost will spiral which is how out of control inflation works. It symbiotic not an us vs them situation.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563870#Comment_120563870

Who would this bloc represent and what would its aims be ?

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563870#Comment_120563870

I don't think 'stability' will be a major issue. The likes of Lowry bring to mind the old definition of an honest politician as one who, when he is bought, will stay bought. He stayed loyal to the FF/Green government to the bitter end, even though he's from the opposite gene poool. The problem will be coralling such a motley bunch together in the first place to the point where they can make a cohesive proposal to FF/FG. This is why I think the groundwork needs to be done before the election...

older by the day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120564306#Comment_120564306

What you can't seem to understand is that farmers are so pissed off at our FF FG rural TDs going to Dublin to vote ta' for any shite that the greens can dream up.

It doesn't matter a fuuuck what's right and wrong but we have been blackened so we can't wait for the next election. I don't think they will even canvass farmers at this stage.

People are looking for a centre right party.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120564306#Comment_120564306

Same as its individual members are doing as things stand: looking after their own constituents. But they'll have a few nationwide rural-friendly policies so they don't look like they're just a bunch of gombeens...

rolling boh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120564287#Comment_120564287

Still a numbers game I am not sure how many seats SF will get they should be the largest but still a long way from power unless they get a decent bloc to go in with them .Despite all the issues Ff Fg still have enough well established TD's that will get returned even if folk give out about them .I would think they will stick together even if it's just to keep SF out .If this new group take off most of them will already be in the Dail and will see the greens as the real enemy .

J.O. Farmer

https://irishelectionprojections.com/2023/05/05/april-2023-projections-update/

if the numbers here come to pass your looking at a hung Dail.

A cohesive group of independents might get into power but also I think SF and FF might start kite flying about putting differences aside in the national interest and democratic will of the people.

I think we're looking at 2 out of 3 from FF, FG and SF. It's a question of if a 3rd group is needed and if so who.

It would take very little shift in numbers from the last election for 2 parties to have a majority. In that situation I'm not sure a 3 way coalition with a partner who don't/ can't apply a whip will be what we come out with given the majority could be small. Even the greens have struggled at times to do so in this government.

J.O. Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562837#Comment_120562837

That's correct, it's the reason carbon credits should be abolished.

Sequestration is different though, it does reduce net emissions.

talkie2

yes , very disillusioned with FF/FG and the Greens are bunch of hypocrites

pauly58

I'm a bit confused reading through this thread, would a new rural party only have farmers interests at heart ; there are a lot of people who live in rural areas who aren't farmers. The state of the roads here in West Cork are worse than they were forty years ago, buses are non existent.

I was considering not voting at all in the next election, definitely not for the current lot & I haven't any faith in SF either, so I would certainly be interested in an alternative.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120564991#Comment_120564991

It kind of hinges on what Micheal Martin wants to do (assuming he's still leader of FF). Even if FF and FG underperform those seat projections, if they recruit Greens, Labour and SDs and rout out every last viable independent (whether or not they have come together as a 'rural alliance') they should be able to put a government together (even if only barely). If Martin means what he says here you'd think that's what they would do

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/micheal-martin-does-not-see-future-coalition-with-sinn-fein/42420388.html

But this will surely be Martin's last spin on the merry-go-round, so maybe he has other priorities related to 'legacy'...

J.O. Farmer

I expect those numbers are probably too high for SF.

However we are only talking about the equivalent 12 GP seats needing to be picked up by 2 out of 3 parties.

If that happens a 2 way coalition is more likely than an anyone but Sinn Fein coalition. Such a coalition similar to what you described would be too unstable.

If MM is still leader at that point I don't think it will matter, it's what the majority in the parliamentary party want at that point. He will either go along with it especially if he can get another stint as Taoiseach or resign as party leader as a point of principle to not lead SF into coalition with SF.

There is of course the possibility that FF and FG get close enough to have a coalition either on their own or a 3rd smaller party such as Labour or maybe whatever greens are there.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120565093#Comment_120565093

Going by this thread it would be a farmers party or an anti-Green party.

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563825#Comment_120563825

Such a great post. And to add the “biosphere” only works in one direction.

ie our emmisios are critical at a global level but our contribution to food production is not.

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563294#Comment_120563294

Very few are happy to pay more, including government. See now that Minister Redmond has instructed supermarkets to force down prices.

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120569467#Comment_120569467

Reducing emissions costs money. We have Ryan and Hackett constantly proclaiming we'll get paid more for food.

At this stage, no farmer believes that.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120565258#Comment_120565258

There is of course the possibility that FF and FG get close enough to have a coalition either on their own or a 3rd smaller party such as Labour or maybe whatever greens are there.

Yes, if a deal with one or two of those parties took FF/FG to even a tight, 3 or 4 seat majority I think they would prefer to leave it at that rather than try to negotiate with an unwieldy independent alliance/farmers party/whatever umbrella they are operating under. But that's looking a bit of a stretch at this stage...

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120568497#Comment_120568497

While the Irish Green Party were jumping up and down threatening to collapse the government, (and some of their supporters were salavating at the demand for up to 1.3 million head of cattle beng culled), if they didn`t get their way because according to them it was an EU requirement, the E.U. Commissioner for Agriculture Janusz Wojciechowski addressing an IFA meeting in Dublin 30th May 2022 where he stated that the EU had no intentions of forcing Irish farmers to reduce their herd size. Going on to state that the EU`s priority was food security.

In an interview on 21st Dec 2022 he futher reiterated that stating "In the future, we must achieve a better understanding that 0.4% of EU GDP for CAP for food security is not enough"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120568464#Comment_120568464

It shouldn't be a farmers party.

But, I don't think being an anti GP party is necessarily a bad thing.

Some conversion on the road to Dam... Dail Eireann. Hypocritical comments so as not to offend his jet set voters who'd prefer someone else sort out this climate crisis thing.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/my-secrets-out-green-td-who-refuses-to-fly-for-climate-reasons-admits-he-has-pilots-licence/a48568244.html

Castlekeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120570196#Comment_120570196

I wouldn't see that as hypocritical at all,in fact the opposite, the man is setting an example of changing how he lives, practicing what he preaches so to speak.

Most fair minded people wouldn't see anything wrong in the above.

The mention of the word green seems very triggering these days.

Jonnyc135

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120569449#Comment_120569449

Any sequestered carbon in the Agri sector is used as offset in the EU ETS carbon trading/credit scheme under LULUCF and/or the energy sector.

If I was to get rid of all my cows, just grow grass for Bio methane production the reduction in emissions from the cows would go into the LULUCF and the reduction in CO2 due to bio methane being produced would go into the Energy sector. Agri sector would get absolutely no credit - grotesque really.

The EU ETS is a total load of bolloxs that was purely designed to green wash and give the huge polluters and multinationals a easy ride as they are the ones creating employment and providing the golden goose 'GDP'.

Water John

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120565093#Comment_120565093

Pauly, thought Michael Collins would have all that sorted for you.

If polls are correct then SF will be the largest party after the next GE. They then will have the making to the next Govn't. How will that play out? Do they put together a minority Govn't if they fail to cobble together a majority coalition?

Jonnyc135

Personally I would vote for the Rural Independent party in the morning. I believe the people of rural Ireland need a group that voices and listens our opinions. This is coming from a progressive Renewable Energy Engineer and part time farmer.

If the rural areas of Ireland become even more forgotten about and the emphasis is solely placed on Urban centers, we will have serious socio economic divides ripple throughout Ireland. If a enforced land use change/rewetting forestry etc, being touted by the Greens is let happen the whole social fabric of rural Ireland will be destroyed as the knock on affect in terms of employment would be devastating.

This will do nothing bar cause extreme resentment amongst the population outside of the urban centers. We only have to look at England and how badly they got things since the 80s and Thatcher. When employment steel works coal mines etc. in the midlands of England was destroyed by Thatcher and farming became increasingly unviable, there has risen an extreme divide between urban and rural - so much so it resulted in Brexit.

Ireland will run into the exact same scenario here if we do not look after the rural areas. The Greens will only fast track these divides.