PHEV vs EV running costs

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120527394#Comment_120527394

You need to stop claiming EV's are cheaper to run, they can be, based on your circumstances. For other people, PHEV's make sense.

You are accusing others of spouting nonsense yet spout it yourself.

It's like the people saying PHEV's are the worst of both worlds, when clearly they are not, depending on your circstances.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120527200#Comment_120527200

That's nonsense, anyone doing a lot of public charging greatly benefits from a paid subscription and the cost savings versus petrol are still very real

For example We Charge Plus plan will pay for itself after 3,000km of DC driving. Anyone doing more than that in a year would be well advised to sign up

Below that, you'd typically be doing enough home charging to make an EV much cheaper

You'd want some bizarre driving profile to make DC charging more expensive, round trip of Ireland twice a week and literally no other driving

eagerv

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120527424#Comment_120527424

Perhaps I am a bit of an oddity, but I don't really care what a car costs to run, within reason. I just prefer to drive an EV and we are not low mileage drivers, but average or above. Longer runs to Belfast, London etc are a pleasure, I love the instant heating, smooth driving, performance, tech etc. And normally I am a bit of a luddite 🙂.

Neither of us would ever go back to ICE unless we had to. Yes, of course our present low electricity costs and solar are a bonus and we certainly aren't very "green", probably using our cars more than is absolutely necessary.

But I fully understand if an EV is not for all, we were in the same camp about 4 years ago..

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120527424#Comment_120527424

Please explain to me in what situation a PHEV is cheaper to run than an EV.

PHEVs are literally designed to be testing beds for the mass adoption of EVs. Anyone I know who buys a PHEV is usually too afraid to buy an EV but likes the idea of no longer running an ICE. They are marketed purely at people with this mindset. They offer no financial advantage over an EV. They are however cheaper to run than traditional ICE vehicles so at least I'll give them that.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120527491#Comment_120527491

Longer range and not having to use the use the public charging network is not an advantage? Ok then.

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120527506#Comment_120527506

I want to do an 800k round trip.

In an EV. I charge the car to 450km at home. This costs me a few quid. Halfway, I use a public charger to top up the car with another 350km of range. This will cost me considerably more than charging from home but not as much as petrol or diesel.

In an EV. I have no home charger. I need to stop twice to charge the car. This will cost me less than petrol and diesel for the round trip. It's a long trip. I'll be stopping anyway.

In a PHEV. I charge from home for a few quid to get me up to 50-100km. I fill the car with petrol or diesel for the rest of the trip. This will cost me more than a public charger for the same amount of range. It works out more expensive than both options above.

In a PHEV. I have no home charger so I need to use all petrol or diesel or charge for 50-100km of range at a public charger. The cost of fuel alone will be more than the top two options.

I'm sorry, I'm just not sure what you're getting at. Are you assuming the EV driver will buy a Mcdonald's on the way or something?

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120527388#Comment_120527388

Electricity isn't much cheaper anymore, a few euros a week you'll save, ROI will be many years like for like, eg Corolla 33k vs ID3 42k 1

Phev can do 50-60km a day now, that's short journey's no? Avg mileage is 15,000km per year for cars, that's 42km a day

And phev uses the same battery and motor system as an EV, it's lighter too so in a head to head challenge it will actually use very slightly less electricity in a modern phev like a 2023 Kia Niro phev vs Niro EV

Wouldn't you be better borrowing a power washer, maybe renting one for a day or even shared ownership? Seems a waste having it in the shed all the winter and only using it 3 times a year.

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120527627#Comment_120527627

The electricity thing not being cheaper is purely made up. My night rate is 22c. Shop around and you're onto a winner. Our family just replaced our ICE with an EV and the weekly running cost has dropped from €65 to €14. We changed our main car last year (also to EV). The fuel cost was €80 per week now €14 per week for electricity. We've just put in solar panels so that should help even more.

A PHEV is considerably cheaper to run than an ICE for short trips but roughly the same if not slightly more than an EV.

It really is much of a muchness in terms of battery usage. As an example, a small Audi A3 PHEV uses 15.7kw/100km. A large Audi Q4 Etron EV uses 16.9kw/100km. Both systems are designed for efficiency.

I'm not sure if you are trying to publicly shame me for being an EV owner and buying something like a powerwasher that is bad for the environment. I bought two EVs for our family to save money. I see value in families relying less on others in the future. I've invested heavily in this over the last few years and as a result, I've been able to cut back my bills and work 3 days a week instead of 5. While I know that is out of reach for a lot of people, investing in these things does help in the long run to bring down your weekly outgoings. It's not always about the environment.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120527627#Comment_120527627

You keep saying about the PHEV being cheaper to run but still looking for the data for that claim.

As of the electric drivetrain and battery being the same: The PHEV electric motor has 84 PS vs 204 on the EV model so they are very opposite to the same. It might be physically the same unit but the power output on the PHEV is seriously tuned down compared to the EV. And this is just one of the more annoying things about the hybrid: Most are just plain sluggish without the engine when overtaking or taking off.

John_Rambo

I plug in my PHEV when it's low on battery. I rarely use the ICE, put petrol in it about three times a year.

Is there anyone here telling me I'd be better off driving around using ICE engine? Genuine question (because I know someone that's doing just that)

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529289#Comment_120529289

But those 3 times a year, your dragging around a humongous battery the weight of the moon when the battery runs out :)

Irishcrx1

I think the rise in electricity prices has fueled the fire on the PHEV debate more - The PHEV is a great option for some and not for others that's the bottom line of it really , some people aren't comfortable or don't want to switch over to a BEV just yet until the network is better supported or need an ICE in some capacity due to their trips and running commitments - others get by fine on a BEV.

I bought a Kia Sorento PHEV last week because I needed a 7 seater and wanted something 'Hybrid' generally I'll get by fine on the 45 KM battery range bi charging at work 20KM daily round trip or at home where I installed a granny charger which charges from 12 - 6 am at night rate , sometimes I need to do longer trips to get from A - B without finding a charger or waiting for it to charge so it suits me perfectly and 80% of the time I'm only using EV mode and helping the planet a little bit.

I've some from years of owning ICE , big engine cars and still have a 156 GTA as my weekend car so I've been very on the fence about taking on an electric or even without a manual gearbox but I'm VERY happy with Sorento - In the future if they have a well priced EV9 or full EV Sorento and it'll work for me I might consider it but the lads who own BEV's going around spouting non sense or judging others who own PHEV or ICE still need to take a leap tbh.

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531341#Comment_120531341

Nobody is judging anyone. A lot of ICE guys who are Anti-ev, come on here saying that PHEV's are cheaper to run than EV's. It's just not true. They also create situations that they believe make EVs impracticable but have never owned one.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120527506#Comment_120527506

My PHEV (530e) has a 350km range when full with petrol and fully charged. My BEV can out range it 🤣🤣

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531338#Comment_120531338

ha!

I'll have you know it's more economic than other cars when going downhill.

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531836#Comment_120531836

Only takes a minute to refuel though :)

How are you getting 20mpg out of a 530e? It has a 46 litre tank, I'd get it looked at.

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531423#Comment_120531423

If your journey is less than 50km a day 5 days a week and you do 300km family trips regularly, eg Cork to Dublin, Galway to Donegal there will be very little in it.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532030#Comment_120532030

Ive never got more than €60 petrol into it.

I think your maths are still way off though.

Trip computer says 47 mpg combined for the 30e. No idea how you’ve man maths it to 20mpg?

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532043#Comment_120532043

They are little trips. Wouldn’t need a crappy base spec petrol car for that. Half decent EV do that all day long and be significantly cheaper for the family to keep some cash in their pocket.

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532043#Comment_120532043

An EV would work out cheaper to run in this situation. In a PHEV you pay for the petrol. In an EV you do a 300km trip on home electricity. If we're talking up and back, you could always charge the EV for free at the hotel in Cork to get home or top up the car at an Ionity/ESB for about €30 to get you home.

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532117#Comment_120532117

If your getting 47mpg, then how are you getting 350km max range? Your car can hold 10 gallons, 10 x 47mpg = 470miles/750km

What year is your car?

BMW 530e specs (G30), performance, dimensions & technical specifications - encyCARpedia

kanuseeme

I have made up my mind, I am going to start a thread on my BMW 330e, starting May 1st. track charging, fuel used and km traveled, its my last chance as I am getting a 225xe in June, I could do the same with that car but I will start it in July, bigger battery and a smaller engine

So a whole months worth of data, I have already updated the kWh unit price used 20 cent and 42 cent for day time on the app.

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532425#Comment_120532425

Phev will do the 50km on battery everyday and at weekend the €30 in petrol will do 300km easy and you don't have to wait at Ionity/ESB and pay the same €30 and get caught eating rubbish supermacs with bored kids in car and trying to get free electricity from a hotel in Cork :)

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532991#Comment_120532991

That’s the 2020 model you have linked with the 12 kWh battery. Mine is 2017

With the 9.2 kWh battery.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120533003#Comment_120533003

Your BMW app should have that date already. Mine has the charging stats in the history and you can filter by month.

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120533240#Comment_120533240

Mine just has the cost of charging, anything under 2 kWh shows as 2kWh but will price it as 60 cents which translates to 1.5 kWhs. Anyway its more for the benefit of everyone else, a real-world example of fuel used, charging costs and km traveled.

Kramer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532117#Comment_120532117

You claimed 350km range for your 530e with a fully charged battery (9.2kWh gross).

Let's say the battery gave you 25kms (very conservative), you're left with 325km range from the 46L petrol tank.

That's 14l/100km or 20.2mpg.

That wouldn't have allowed you to say your EV has more range than your PHEV though, so you're the one utilising "man maths" 😁.

I'd a 530e & put approx. 50k kms on it & it never approached 14l/100km, not even on sustained top speed runs on German autobahns. As already said, you should take it to your dealer asap - it's obviously faulty as it's a BMW & as you so often say, these so-called "premium German BMW cars" are all junkers 🤣.

GTE

My experience of a C350e for a 40km daily commute and a longer trip once most weekends is:

- 10km EV range

- No data on kWh/100, sadly.

- 5.5 l/100km average, which is impressive considering it's speed. It's 1 litre better than the diesel A4 it replaced. It just wasn't enough as the petrol engine drank fuel. It was awful.

I switched to a Passat GTE because I didn't like the Mercedes range.

- 44km EV range guaranteed with no heater, 36km with heatin. No or little engine needed.

- 19kWh/100km average reported

- 2.4 l/100km, average (this is lowering now that I'm out of winter.)

The amazing thing about the GTE is Dublin to Tralee and back averaged at 5.5 l/100km. My A4 would average 6 for that run. That run started with 100% battery, with only one charge in Tralee. 120kph cruise control on the motorway too.

Both sets of figures are from 8,000 to 10,000km of driving over a full year.