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An innocent reason to display the Iron Cross?

  • 15-04-2023 11:37am
    Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭

    Getting out of my car yesterday, I glanced at the wheels of the black van stopped in traffic beside me. Four of these valve caps. Now I looked at them and thought…is that a nazi cross? Looked up “Nazi Cross” and up it came.

    But they’re freely available on Amazon, so I’m hoping that there is amy other reason than being a nazi sympathiser that you’d get these. It was a Dublin reg driving through Listowel.



  • Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭NattyO

    "The Iron Cross (German: Eisernes Kreuz, abbreviated EK) was a military decoration in the Kingdom of Prussia, and later in the German Empire (1871–1918) and Nazi Germany (1933–1945). The design, a black cross pattée with a white or silver outline, was derived from the insignia of the medieval Teutonic Order and borne by its knights from the 13th century. As well as being a military medal, it has also been used as an emblem by the Prussian Army, the Imperial German Army, and the Reichswehr of the German Republic, while the Balkenkreuz (bar cross) variant was used by the Wehrmacht. The Iron Cross is now the emblem of the Bundeswehr, the modern German armed forces."

    Maybe he's just a military fan or an admirer of the modern German army?

    Or, of course, it could be that he just liked that look of it and has no idea of it's history.

  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling

    And this is a CA thread.....

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,675 ✭✭✭✭Danzy

    The Nazi cross?

    That's a new one.

    He is probably a metal head FFS.

  • Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭Japandamo

    If nazis are feeling brave enough to drive around publicly it feels kinda current affairsy? Non?

    Look, I saw it and that was the first thing I thought of, and Google knew what I was talking about. Maybe he is a metal head. I would love that for him. Literally what I was hoping for and why I asked. Thank you.

    It takes all sorts I guess. Thanks for the information.

  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,718 ✭✭✭Eoinbmw

    Its not a nazi symbol

  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling

    Oh look some Nazi German tanks in Germany 🤦

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭ollaetta

    Strictly speaking it's not a Nazi cross without the swastika in the centre and as NattiO pointed out the Iron Cross dates back at least two hundred years and the symbol endures in the modern German army.

    Who knows what your man is into but it reminds me of those biker helmets that you used to see which closely resembled the Second World War German Stalhelm. In fact some of them were modified versions of those helmets. Couldn't wear them now anyway I'd imagine as they wouldn't meet safety standards.

    Veering further off topic, from 1957 German veterans of the Second World War were allowed swap out their medals for a modified version without the swastika and to wear them openly at commemorations. The swastika was and remains banned from public display in Germany.

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,735 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975

  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling

    The Finnish airforce flew with a Blue Swatika as their logo since 1916/17 until recently

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  • Registered Users Posts: 82,280 ✭✭✭✭Overheal

    Harlan Crow or Clarence Thomas should be able to tell us right?

  • Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭Japandamo

    Great. Thanks. And really appreciate that you made such an effort to get your point across without being a massive twat about it.

    Only ever seen it on SS uniforms in film and history lessons. This thread has eased my mind and been an education. Thank you all.

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,411 ✭✭✭✭kowloon

    You see loads of german and norse symbols on bikes and heavy metal album covers. Just happens that white supremacist types love it too. Im sure theres plenty of crossover. In the same vein, celtic crosses show up a lot too. I wouldnt worry about it until they start ranting about Soros or jews controlling the media.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭Polar101

    On the planes, not since 1945. But it's still in use in the air force unit flags.

    What you're likely referencing to with "until recently" is the change in 2020 where the swastika was removed from air force insignia.

  • Registered Users Posts: 82,280 ✭✭✭✭Overheal

    Like Hitler did, it is literally them appropriating the symbols to their own twisted ends. Makes life difficult for people who make innocuous use of them. It let's the supremacist type project like they have way more supporters out there than they really do. Hitler's long dead and his appropriation has people wondering if tyre caps indicate their fellow modern man is a Nazi holdout. It's really quite sinister aftermath. To this day a lot of your more ignorant Christians perceive the intersection of almost any 2 differently lengthed lines as a judeo-christian indicator like Jesus was the first person to come up with a cross.

  • Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭NattyO

    Huh? German and Norse symbols and Celtic crosses on album covers "let's [sic] white supremacists project like they have way more supporters than they really do" - What?!

    You post some fairly outlandish claims on here, but that's waaaaaay out there!

    Who knew Enya was a secret nazi 🙄

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123

    Nazis, Nazis everywhere.

  • Registered Users Posts: 68,505 ✭✭✭✭L1011

    A load of skateboarder brands used the iron cross in their logos in the early 00s. Don't know if they still do as I'm a tad old to be buying my clothes in skateshops now.

    I assumed it was American brands not realising that it could be problematic rather thwn anything else, never bothered checking as I just didn't buy those ones

  • Registered Users Posts: 82,280 ✭✭✭✭Overheal

    Not suggesting the album or band or the church are supremacists, but supremacists will try to recruit others etc. by propagandizing that the symbol appearing everywhere (like in church, and on band albums) are through tinfoil hat logic, support for their own cause.

    Here an OP saw a normal german symbol and his first thought was "Nazi?"

    Because of propaganda and cultural appropriation by a hate movement.

  • Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭NattyO

    Jaysus that's about the most paranoid thing I've read on here, and that's saying something.

    It's like saying communists will use the proliferation of red cars on the roads to recruit members.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 82,280 ✭✭✭✭Overheal

    Nothing is or was ever stopping them from attempting to do so. You yourself just tacitly associated the color red with communism.

    It's a fine example you mentioned, one that comes up in US politics frequently, automobiles being so ingrained in the culture now though not specifically color. The Tesla cars for example are politicized (they were 'pussy-liberal' machines, now Trump has setup shop in Texas and done all his Trump/Twitter nonsense so they've started being derided as 'freedumb mobiles' etc.), so are the Prius lineup. Politics are assumed about you by what you drive.

    There was also a big-to-do during the 2008 Presidential election about flag lapel pins. Politicians tried to insinuate that anyone who wasn't wearing a United States flag pin is a socialist-commie loving democrat and anyone wearing one was a doing the right thing etc. then from there tried to twist any Democrat seen with the pin (or who was always wearing one) as capitulating to their nonsense.

    Do we even need to get on to Red Hats vs. Pink Hats? We're not far removed from a race-war over cone-shaped nipples vs. nippels with ripples:

    Hell the official color of Breast Cancer Awareness month is Pink. Ireland, on March 17 the color of support is Green the world over, even if you accidentally just wore the green shirt from yesterday again or always owned a green car, someone goes 'aha! green, I don't have to pinch you' etc - the Irish have culturally ingrained people to link the two, the color to the date.

  • Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭NattyO

    It's clear that once one begins to obsess over something, they see their perceived enemies in every shadow.

    Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

  • Registered Users Posts: 82,280 ✭✭✭✭Overheal

    Precisely! Sometimes a set of Tyre plugs is just a set of tyre plugs. But decades, a century on from the appropriation by eg. the Nazi Party, people are still left wondering if when they see an Iron Cross it might be a Nazi symbol. That's the lasting damage of cultural misappropriation.

  • Registered Users Posts: 82,280 ✭✭✭✭Overheal

    Speaking of red hats and symbolism and bikers this fits here

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach

    As a historian my 2c: Iron Crosses in one form or the other had been in vogue since the time of the national renewal against the Napolonic invasion of the German states. That some Progressives seem to invest this, and a host of other symbols such as the Brendan cross or the OK symbol, with some sort of deeper signfignance then this either reflects a rather Manichean world view or it could have an innocent reason.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,366 ✭✭✭Star Bingo

    We take to crosses of any variety celtic; christian this one is a feature ok .. eh never really associated it with much beyond yknow many of us are quite religious, contrary to the portrayal maybe something got lost in translation.

    -good guys don’t always wear white metalheads are generally the good kids around here so who cares. Tbh there’s a little girl up and down here after school awful keen to break out her skateboard, turning tricks is a sight to behold. Not hanging around corners etc or with gangs but I notice some similar branding on there too maybe you should pursue her on it?!

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,411 ✭✭✭✭kowloon

    Just to be clear, I used to listen to a lot of metal and I'm into bikes, so I'm not branding half the people I know as neo-nazis, but I notice the symbols and who is using them. Not suggesting the Highway Hawk catalogue is a neo-nazi recruiting tool. The Celtic cross one is pretty common in the US whereas here they're pretty common cultural symbols. There used to be a website called Stormfront that got talked about a lot on Boards a few years back and their logo was a Celtic cross. People respond to symbols. Stick an eye in a triangle and watch the conspiracy loons go wild.

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,675 ✭✭✭✭Danzy

    The Iron Cross as pointed out is and still has a longer history than just it's use, as an already established military insignia, by National Socialists in the 30s.

    Same as other strands of Socialism use the hammer and sickle, Anarchists use the letter A.

    Red and Black is a common colour pattern for all the Socialist strands above.

    Just because one has a red and black flag doesn't mean you are a communist cheering on Russia in Ukraine. China threatening Taiwan etc.

    There is more to a thing than any symbolic link it may have.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,366 ✭✭✭Star Bingo


    -well at least you can’t invert the thing?

    See it as a plus. +

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,675 ✭✭✭✭Danzy